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Electric Lock choice

Discussion in 'Security Alarms' started by [email protected], Jul 30, 2005.

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  1. J. Sloud

    J. Sloud Guest

    Frank,

    in the United States, according to NFPA101 Life Safety Code, you must
    have a REX motion. Specifically it says that the door must
    automatically release from the egress side as a person approaches.
    You also have to have a manual means of shunting power to the mag that
    is clearly labeled "Push to Exit." Nothing else meets code. Period.

    As for local AHJ's: Doing what they say may not be enough. Many
    don't know crap, and you do not automatically remove yourself from
    liability claims just because some local fire marshal said something
    was okay. At least get it in writing.
     
  2. Jackcsg

    Jackcsg Guest

    I wouldn't allow egress on to a Tarmac for the general public. That would be
    like a rear exit door 50' above a lake....hope you can swim....Again, the
    codes are there for some guidelines. I enjoy being liable for my actions,
    most companies are afraid of being held accountable.
     
  3. Jackcsg

    Jackcsg Guest

    I can tell you how I would propose it. With Maglocks. I would either use 2
    Advanced Signal L-1000 (1000lbs holding), one on each door, or an optional
    DBL-1000 (Double Mag). If this door is a public access door, (which I assume
    it is) you'll probably have it unlocked during public hours. After hours
    when the door locks I'd have both an REX Motion and a push button located
    near the door. After a time when no one is in the building (9,10,11,12pm), I
    would shunt the REX motion so that only the REX push button would work
    (prior knowledge). I'd place an STI 2400 Pull station in series with the
    Maglock Power (for door release), and tie in the other Pole of the Pull
    Station to a Monitored zone on an/or the Alarm Panel. Tie in the Control
    (interface it with the FACP) for fire release. I'd also have a glass break
    detector in the area, protecting the glass. Then of course, on my
    installation, it would have a Network Camera close by for video
    verification, and be monitored over the Internet. I'd receive door alarms in
    50-70 mille-seconds, and be looking at live video within 3 seconds of the
    event.....and you would never have any false alarms. That's just me though.
    You still have a 2% chance of doing it right any other way.
     
  4. Frank Olson

    Frank Olson Guest

    First off, I wouldn't accept the local Fire Marshal here as having the final
    authority on any variance as they usually defer to the person that does
    anyway (which happens to be the building inspector). To apply for a
    variance and have one granted you must do so in writing, cite the reasons
    for it and submit sealed drawings from an Electrical Engineer. In your
    example of the airport doors to the tarmac, the Airport Authority should
    consider obtaining a variance to extend the time that the door will release
    to 60 seconds in an emergency. I think it's far more dangerous to allow
    members of the general public onto a ramp or apron where they could easily
    be sucked into an engine or suffer other injury. 60 seconds would give
    someone "with a clue" to respond to the door and escort people to safety.
    In any civil court proceedings which I've witnessed the judge in almost all
    cases defers to "common sense" and "public safety". Most people aren't
    aware of the hazards of jet blast or how to successfully negotiate an active
    ramp to a safe location.
     
  5. Bob Worthy

    Bob Worthy Guest

    Where does it state "automatically"? Sorta takes away from the crash bar
    design. Many muni's are requiring the push buttons with the pneumatic delays
    (mechanical) in lieu of the electronic REX motions. Their fear is the
    failure of the electronics (relays freezing up) and the door not opening.
    Had to recently get a variance on a checkzit (sp) (VonDuprin) door release.
    It is in an immigration holding facility and needed to have a 30 second
    delay on the door. VonDuprin wouldn't touch it without a letter from the
    fire marshall.
    Yep!
     
  6. petem

    petem Guest


    Sorry to disturb you in your little world of magic where there is an exit
    door close enough any where in an airport that will never lead to the
    tarmac,
    but in the real world Architect and engineer have to supply by code some way
    of exiting a building in case of emergency..and the door cannot be place
    more then given length(depend of your the code,don't know what it is in the
    state,and it could be even lower then the federal code,if the state itself
    stated as so..)(same here in Canada)

    that lead to doors that need to be opened in case of emergency to ANY part
    around an airport...

    that You decide you would not leave people go out in any case is NO revelent
    here...

    it is a fact and you would HAVE to do deal with it..

    stop dodging the real world..I am really wondering if you really know what
    you are talking about..


    About the locknetics maglocks..you are right they are not very good..
    they need to be powered by the exact voltage they were designed for..putting
    just 3 volts over will kill the device in a few months..
     
  7. J. Sloud

    J. Sloud Guest

    This terminal would dump into an area far from the taxiway, but still
    within the SIDA area. However, if a plane was approaching the ramp,
    an accident with the motorized ramp itself is a real possibility.
     
  8. J. Sloud

    J. Sloud Guest

    NFPA 101 Section 5-2.1.6.2

    "A sensor provided on the egress side arranged to detect an occupant
    approaching the doors and the doors are arranged to unlock upon
    detection of approaching occupant ..."

    i.e. a motion detector that unclocks the doors.
     
  9. J. Sloud

    J. Sloud Guest

    Sorry Jack, looks like Pete's right. This area must have emergency
    egress and the mid-seventies design of the airport terminal never
    factored in 9/11. We didn't design it, but I doubt much else could be
    done. To be honest, I'm not sure what the delay on the mags is. It
    could be 30 seconds or more. However, TSA is never more than a few
    hundred feet from this area, so 30 seconds would suffice for response
    to an audible alarm at the door in question.
     
  10. Nomen Nescio

    Nomen Nescio Guest

    Bob Worthy said:
    It sounds like some of you guys may be confusing the requirements for
    "delayed egress" doors and "access controlled egress doors." The NFPA
    requirements for the two are different, and the most recent requirements
    are found in NFPA 5000, the NFPA building code. Of course, thzt may not be
    the building code in your particular area. Building occupancy type affects
    the requirements, too. An airport is an assembly occupancy, and delayed
    egress locks are permitted on everything but the main exit doors and the
    doors leading out from the airplane into the terminal.

    For delayed egress doors:

    Sprinklers or full automatic fire alarm is mandatory
    Loss of power to the lock must unlock the door
    No REX sensor required
    No exit pushbutton required
    Pushing on the panic bar for 3 seconds must start an irreversible process
    that unlocks the door in 15 seconds (30 seconds by special permission)
    Audible alarm at the door is required
    Once unlocked, door will not relock until manually reset
    Sign on the door is required, telling people what to do
    Emergency lighting required near the door


    For access-controlled egress doors:

    EITHER a REX sensor OR panic hardware with a switch is required
    Exit pushbutton is mandatory, even if panic hardware is used
    Exit button must directly interrupt lock power; must remain unlocked for at
    least 30 seconds
    Loss of power to the lock must unlock the door (note this excludes most
    electric deadbolts)
    Sprinklers or fire alarm is not required, but if they are present, they
    must unlock the door

    - badenov
     
  11. Jackcsg

    Jackcsg Guest

    My world of magic? The point is EVERY scenario is different. Every Engineer
    will interpret things a little differently, and differently depending on
    what Codes they follow at any given time.

    I understand what you're saying, most emergency exits in Airports aren't
    designed to exit you onto a Tarmac, or exit way. The design, (Older Designs)
    may have had no choice, and or may or may not meet (under curent codes)
    their function. I'm not arguing that it doesn't happen.
    That's not what I ever said. I said, depending on the circumstance, it could
    be as worse as keeping them inside.
    No shit. Codes are guidelines, I deal with them every day.
    Stop dodging the real world? Is that the standard answer of a Canadian who
    does? Kind of contridictive don't you think?
    I wouldn't ever trust, nor would I ever install a delayed egress maglock.
    Good for you those who do....have fun with it.
     
  12. petem

    petem Guest

    Now i know that you dont install much stuff on access system..
     
  13. Jackcsg

    Jackcsg Guest

    Yes Pete, I just started last week. Catch me up will ya....
     
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