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Electric arc...Unpredictable behaviour in a magnetic field

Discussion in 'General Electronics Discussion' started by Pranav A S, Feb 25, 2018.

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  1. Pranav A S

    Pranav A S

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    Feb 2, 2018
    I had an experiment on HV arcs and magnets... Wondering an electric arc may look different inside a magnetic field...
    (Look photos) (Arc Not in contact with magnets)
    EXPECTING A LOGIC EXPLANATION FOR THIS...
    IMG_20180225_224338.jpg IMG_20180225_224320.jpg
     
  2. Harald Kapp

    Harald Kapp Moderator Moderator

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    Nov 17, 2011
    An electric arc is a form of electric current. Current passing through a magnetic field experiences the Lorentz force.
     
  3. Hopup

    Hopup

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    Jul 5, 2015
    Some Tesla coil spark gaps and other similar devices do use powerful magnets to suppress the sparks/arcs faster.
     
  4. hevans1944

    hevans1944 Hop - AC8NS

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    Very strong permanent magnets are used for arc suppression in high-voltage, high-current, switchgear. The magnetic field deflects and lengthens the path of the arc as a switch is opened, until there is enough path-length to no longer support the arc.
     
  5. Pranav A S

    Pranav A S

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    Feb 2, 2018
    Amazing...

    But I would like to hear from an atomic point of view.. Is it some kind of cyclotron effect where electric and magnetic field are perpendicular..o_O
     
  6. Harald Kapp

    Harald Kapp Moderator Moderator

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    You've got the cart before the horse: A cyclotron makes use of the Lorentz force (see post #2).
     
    hevans1944 likes this.
  7. Pranav A S

    Pranav A S

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    Feb 2, 2018
    :D:D:D:D
     
  8. Pranav A S

    Pranav A S

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    Feb 2, 2018
    1519633318021.png Screenshot_2018-02-26-09-22-26.jpeg Got even more ..




    Trying to upload a video on YouTube.. what's your thought(s)?
     
  9. hevans1944

    hevans1944 Hop - AC8NS

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    Jun 21, 2012
    The Lorentz Force is commonly used in one type of mass spectrometer to separate atomic beams of charged particles according to the mass-to-charge ratio of the constituent particles. Compare to time-of-flight mass spectrometers which separate charged particles according to the energies received by acceleration through an electrical field.

    If a charged particle atomic beam is passed between the poles of an electromagnet, the Lorentz Force causes the charged particles to bend in an arc perpendicular to the magnetic field as the particles are passing through the magnetic field. The amount of bending that occurs depends on the velocity of the charged particles (a measure of their energy), the strength of the magnetic field, and the mass-to-charge ratio of each particle. The end result is an angular separation of the heavier particles from the lighter particles. After exiting the magnetic field, a particular species of particle can be extracted from the fan-like beam by means of a slit which intercepts the fan of particles, allowing only particles of a particular charge-to-mass ratio to pass through the slit.

    This was the method used by my Tandetron particle accelerator to select which low-energy negative ions, produced by a SNICS-II negative ion source, would be accelerated to high energies.

    On a different note, my former boss, Rabi S. Bhattacharya, PhD (physics) is vacationing in India until April 1 and is seeking a university to which he can donate the 1.7 MV Tandetron tandem particle accelerator. All the university has to do is pay for disassembly, shipping, and re-assembly in India. I am available to serve as a consultant and to train an operator and/or a maintenance technician while the university gets the machine operating again. If you know of a university that might be interested in this ion accelerator, please PM me and I will pass the information on to Rabi. When I retired December 31, 2014, the Tandetron was still operational, but we had run out of funded work for it.
     
  10. Pranav A S

    Pranav A S

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    Feb 2, 2018
    I have studied basics of this on 12th
     
  11. Pranav A S

    Pranav A S

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    Feb 2, 2018

    :D:D I am too 'kid' to help you. I just appearing in 12th exam this year.
    It was nice for me to get to know you, sir. Thank you
     
  12. hevans1944

    hevans1944 Hop - AC8NS

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    Jun 21, 2012
    Nice to meet you, too. When I was a "kid" I used to "play" with a 15,000 V neon-sign transformer, fascinated by the loud arcs it made. My first "project" was to take two steel coat-hangers and un-fold them to make a pair of stiff "V"-shaped, closely spaced, vertical electrodes... a Jacob's Ladder. These are often seen as background "special effects" in old Frankenstein-type, mad-scientist movies. The arc starts at the bottom of the "V" where the electrodes are closest to each other and then rises as the hot air in arc floats the arc upward, like a hot-air balloon. Same principle except no balloon necessary. When the arc reaches the top of the "V" it will be extinguished if there is sufficient separation of the electrodes. The process then repeats with a new arc forming at the bottom of the "V". Back in the day (1950s) we didn't have very strong permanent magnets available, so I didn't have an opportunity to discover what effect a strong magnetic field would have on the arc. The buoyancy, created by the heated air of the arc, was a much stronger force than the Lorentz force created by the puny magnetic fields available to me at the time.

    Well, "kids" grow up, and some become university students, and some of those become physicists, and some physicists become professors. Keep your eyes and ears open, maybe you will meet someone who wants a vintage (1980s era) high-energy (1.7 MV) tandem particle accelerator at a good price (free) with some dis-assembly, re-assembly, and transportation required.

    Rabi inherited the machine when the original scientists who purchased it left the company to pursue other interests. We had a good run with it, about twenty years, implanting oxygen ions for device isolation of heterojunction bipolar transistor integrated circuits for a major national defense contractor. Whoever decides to take it off his hands may have a difficult time maintaining it because the technology is old and replacement parts may be difficult or impossible to find. A university usually has more and better facilities than a small private corporation and can afford to take the time necessary to maintain and operate the machine, but it is available free to anyone who wants to pay the cost to disassemble it and haul it away.
     
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