EE Degree becoming Obsolete...

[Jack Steed]

Hi all,

I live in Ontario, Canada, & Graduated with EE Bachlor degree

On June 2003. Ever since I graduated, I've NOT ( should NOT be surprising

to most people ) been able to find ANY job in the field of EE (Mainly

Because I've 0 Years of Industrial Experience, & my GPA is only B- ). I'm

becoming more & more worried that, my EE Bachelor Degree will be Viewed

as Obsolete ON MY Resume by most-if-not-all potential employer, even

though I've been vigorously reviewing my UnderGrad Course Materials.


I think my remaining options are:

1) Volunteer (I Live @ Home) to gain the ever-so-precious Initial
Industrial Experience

2) Going for the Master Degree (Although I would have to try for
Special Student, Since my UnderGrad GPA is B-, which is Way
Below the Master's Minimum Requirement of B+ )


I would really Appreciate any comments & suggestions

Thanks a Bunch

 

[milo]

Try lowering your standards and expanding your pool of options. For
example, if you would like to work near your home, you may need to consider
jobs that are farther away than you would like or require more travel than
you would like. Also, if your desperate enough to consider volunteering,
what about doing Cad/Cam work. I would bet if you could get your foot in
the door doing CAD, you could make it into an engineering position in a few
years if you worked hard and impressed your employers.

I don't think I would go the masters route unless you have employers that
want a masters degree for an entry level job. You run the risk of becoming
too well educated (and too costly) for the initial position.

As for studying your undergrad courses I don't know that there is a lot of
value in that time investment. When I graduated, I found that the most
useful thing I learned was how to teach myself. You will most likely not
need to remember how to integrate the magnetic flux density passing through
a sphere on your first day at work. Odds are, your employer will teach you
what you need to know. They just want someone capable of learning the
technical material quickly.

Good luck.

 

[Jack Steed]

Be sure to get active politically and fight all those attempts by
industry to expand education in areas of science, engineering, and
technology.

Another option is starting your own business. You'll need to find and
pair up with a trustable partner who knows business (and as far as I
can tell, such people are hard to find).

What specific areas in EE did you study and are most interested in?

I concentrated mostly in Analog/Digital Discrete/IC circuits design, in
my UnderGrad years. But I guess I need Truck Load of Experience, to get a
Job in Analog/Digital Circuit Design/Testing/Verification.

thanks for taking your time to reply

 

[John Gilmer]

Hi all,

I live in Ontario, Canada, & Graduated with EE Bachlor degree

Most schools in the US arrange interviews for the June grads during their
last year at school. Unless you KNOW you have a job when you graduate,
you should have "signed up" for EVERY company that sent someone. At the
minimum you would have receive practice in being interviewed and a rought
idea of what's going on in the "real" world.

From the view of most companies, you are "picked over" goods.

If you have the money, you should consider more education leading to either
an advanced degree or a degree in another field (e.g.: education.) Were
you in the US, I would suggest that you try law school, or dental school, or
medical school.

Your best bet now is SALES. You will still have trouble getting your foot
into the door but a company that pays the sales staff mostly on commission
might be willing to give you a few months training in the hope that you work
out.

Spend ALL your time in looking for work. Don't get sidetracked.

The key is that when you get a job, you work hard and pay attention.

 

[Airy R. Bean]

If you are sellable....

3) Go into business on your own account

It you are not sellable.....

3) Get a job at McDonald's

 

[Jack Steed]

Most schools in the US arrange interviews for the June grads during
their last year at school. Unless you KNOW you have a job when you
graduate, you should have "signed up" for EVERY company that sent
someone. At the minimum you would have receive practice in being
interviewed and a rought idea of what's going on in the "real" world.

Well, My University did not afford us with such a Luxury.

 

[Jack Steed]

I have been retired for so long that I do not know whether what I say
will be pertinent.

You did not say what school you went to and whether they indulge in
grade inflation. You also did not mention what yuou actually learned
or what your hobbies were. Were you into amateur radio? Did you build
or repair computers? Most BEE types without m,

I concentrated mostly in Analog/Digital Discrete/IC circuits design, in
my UnderGrad years. But I guess I need Truck Load of Experience, to get a
Job in Analog/Digital Circuit Design/Testing/Verification.

My impression is that it is a tough time for the run-of-the-mill EE.
It is not helped by competition from cheap foreign sources. For that
reason, it should not be difficult finding a master's spot if you are
willing to pay your own way.

I don't know if you're talking about the ease of finding a Master's Spot,
in US.

But here in Canada, MOst if not ALL (over Canada) Universities, either
don't have EE Major, or have the Minimum Master Entry Average set at B+ (my
GPA is B-, that's why I'm going to try to qualify for the Master's Program
as a Special Student).

 

[Jack Steed]

I found many five star electrical companies hire electrical engineers
without electrical engineer degree requirement. They just look for a
higher average grade point as a requirement. If you have EE degree,
you have more likely with lower grade point than social science
students.

are these 5-star electrical Engineering companies in US ?

if so, I don't think US Government/Customs, presently, is all that

willing to grant Foreigner (A Canadian) with EE Bachelor's degree, a Work

Visa.

 

[w_tom]

You are living in the wrong place. Look at address of
innovative products in the electronic trade rags (magazines).
Notice nothing innovative in your area? You want to work? Go
where the work is. West Coast US is but one area. Again,
notice that no one who is innovative in electronics stays or
manufactures where you live. They go where the attitude is
different. To take a risk. To try something new. To push
out the envelope. That is not your current region where cost
controls, the necktie, and the MBA degree make innovation
difficult.

Correct to assume your degree degrades every year it is not
used. Assume the degree is useless (equivalent to a business
or psychology degree) if not used within four years.

Some additional factors. Who is the top management? If
they came from the business schools, then they are not
interested in product; only in profits. Then most of their
designers don't even have degrees. This is common in regions
where costs - not the product - are more important. If it
very profitable to be a beltway bandit - engineering companies
that leach on government contracts. What is produced does not
matter as long as it passes the tests - which may or may not
mean the product works.

This is not the environment you want to work in. Find
companies that innovate. They should be hiring degreed
engineers for their design - not two year tech school
graduates. Their top management comes from where the work
gets done. Want to see an example of a technical company that
makes profits by scamming their customers? First Energy - the
utility that created the 14 Aug NE blackout. Look at their
top management. None have technical degrees nor product
experience. Just the type of company you must avoid to have a
career.

 

[Joseph Meier]

Most schools in the US arrange interviews for the June grads during their
last year at school. Unless you KNOW you have a job when you graduate,
you should have "signed up" for EVERY company that sent someone. At the
minimum you would have receive practice in being interviewed and a rought
idea of what's going on in the "real" world.

From the view of most companies, you are "picked over" goods.

If you have the money, you should consider more education leading to either
an advanced degree or a degree in another field (e.g.: education.) Were
you in the US, I would suggest that you try law school, or dental school, or
medical school.

A B- gets you into Dental or Medical School?

 

[John Gilmer]

A B- gets you into Dental or Medical School?

You don't know until you try. Dental and Medical school admissions are
quite subjective. You would be passed over by Harvard but there a LOTS of
medical schools. If a school thinks you would make the kind of doctor they
want to put out, you are in.

Remember that few applicants to professional schools have engineering
degrees. Most have taken a watered down, "pre-med" degree. An honest B-
in engineering might be equivalent to a B+ in "pre-med."

 

[John Gilmer]

Well, My University did not afford us with such a Luxury.

What can I say other than remember that fact 20 years from now when they
start asking for donations.

If you haven't pissed off the faculty, you might ask everyone who remembers
you name if he knows of something. Likewise, call up everyone from the
school who might remember your name and ask for help.

Like it or not, many or MOST jobs in engineering are WIRED. You are hired
because someone already connected with the company knows you and believes he
can work with you. That's why you might want to call your former
classmates. Maybe the place they are working needs some extra help.

 

[bushbadee]

">

I concentrated mostly in Analog/Digital Discrete/IC circuits design, in
my UnderGrad years. But I guess I need Truck Load of Experience, to get a
Job in Analog/Digital Circuit Design/Testing/Verification.

thanks for taking your time to reply

Most of this refers to EE's

tHAT MEANS little.
You should have studied basics.
Like circuit theory, Math, Electronics and the other basic things that could
have been applied anywheres.
There are few decent analog engineers around today.
Most people study the digital stuff.

There are really very few real engineers around.
Most companies have just a few real engineers who are creative and design
the equipment and then surround them with a couple hundred other people who
the gratuitously call engineers.
These people do the packageing, therman analyses, reliability analyses,
buying parts, testing and you name it.

I would doubt that there are 1000 real engineers who create the stuff in the
whole USA and they for the most part work for large companies or do as I
did, make real money working on a consultant basis.

The first place you should try for a job is with a head hunter.
They generally will find a place to fit you in, even if only temporarily.
Some companies just want bodies to fill goverment requirements and you can
get a lot of experiance that way.

My son with a law degree gets about $60 bucks an hour as a consultant
engineer working for a head hunter and has been continously employed except
for about 2 months in the last 10 years.

Before I retired, I worked both for private companies and the goverment in
NON PROFITS like the Aerospace Corp and the Rand Corp and in the terms of
todays dollars earned between a quarter million and a half million a year.
This plus all sorts of extra goodies when I pulled somebodies fat out of the
fire.

The Jobs are out there.
You just can not start as the head of the company, it often take a year or
two to work up to that position.
;-)

 

[bushbadee]

I almost forgot.
I was earning that kind of salary before I even had a degree.
I did attend the most advanced Electronics school in the country though
RCA's T3 program.
It was not recognized, but it's graduates were sought around the world.
I eventually did get a degree, but was the Chief engineer of one company
long before I got a degree from a university.,
So you see, if you have the stuff and the chutzpah you don't even need a
degree.

 

[bushbadee]

If you have the money, you should consider more education leading to either
an advanced degree or a degree in another field (e.g.: education.) Were
you in the US, I would suggest that you try law school, or dental school, or
medical school.

Not really good advice for a bright person.
My son has a law degree, passed his bar on his first try which is unusual.
and makes more money as a computer engineer although he doesn't have an EE
degree.
There are already to many lawyers around.

Having an EE degree never helped me.
I got much further before I had a recognized degree.

 

[bushbadee]

I found many five star electrical companies hire electrical engineers
without electrical engineer degree requirement. They just look for a higher
average grade point as a requirement. If you have EE degree, you have more
likely with lower grade point than social science students.

Your absolutely right.
I canned one guy who had graduated from Cal Tec because I did not like his
superior attitude and his lack of basic knowledge.
He went back to Cal Tec for a Masters degree.
He will still be unhireable as far as I am concerned.

 

[John Gilmer]

Not really good advice for a bright person.
My son has a law degree, passed his bar on his first try which is unusual.
and makes more money as a computer engineer although he doesn't have an EE
degree.
There are already to many lawyers around.

If you are an "In demand" computer person you can often pull down 6 figure
wages.

But a lawyer with a technical background would do just as well.

But the original poster can't find ANY job so I don't think he is an "in
demand" computer professional.

Having an EE degree never helped me.
I got much further before I had a recognized degree.

Good for you. Keep up the good work.

 

[John Gilmer]

Great points. I'm a EE that got his degree at 32. Simply worked as a
technician all years before and
after. Now I'm facing layoff from my technical job again.

I have seen techs get college degrees and approach their bosses for a
promotion. The bosses can't see where the guy is any more valuable with
the degree than without.

If you want to get the benefit of a degree and your present employeer
doesn't want to pay you more you have to bite the bullet and look for a
PROFESSIONAL level job. You may well have to take a pay cut but you will
be on the track for future advancement.

And, like it or not, usually getting a degree when you are pushing 40
usually isn't cost effective.

Its easy to
get bitter especially after hearing
about all of the rumors over outsourcing.

Life is all about paying the money and taking the choices.

Hell I was on the Corp of Engineers website looking at jobs in Iraq and
Afghanistan. Was semi-interested
until reading the part about communal showers or bathing out of your
helmet.

Usually (but not always) civilian contractors in "combat zones" live OK.
Since the contractors are the ones that take care of the water and
electricity, they make sure that THEY have running water and electricity.
Communal showers is no big deal; if you never were in the military, then
think about high school gym.

I can handle the decapitation
risk. Sure wish I went into Civil Engr. Better jobs prospects in my
opinion. I lost my EE edge years ago.... if
I ever had it.

Most EEs end up being paper generating or paper pushing bureaucrats. It's
a living.

 

[B J Conner]

http://msn.careerbuilder.com/JobSee...px?HHName=Air_Force2&sc_cmp1=13_JobRes_ComDet

Ontario is in Canada dood, i.e., a different country than the USA

It doesn't matter. All the US armed services will accept Canadians. Jump
on the bus and go to Detroit or Duluth and sign up. I the 60s there were
more Canadians in the US Army than draft dodgers in Canada.
I'de do it before I set around all my life whining.

 

[Mitch Thompson]

Ironically, one of the areas of the electrical industry with the greatest
job security is the not at all sexy area of power distribution and
consulting engineering. This is an area of mature technology that is not
constantly changing. An EE that concentrates in computers, integrated
circuits, etc, will find that his education is obsolete almost before he
graduates. On the other hand, most electrical engineers in power
distribution and consulting engineering are just beginning to really know
what they are doing after ten years on the job.

We have an EE in his late 60's and over 30 years of experience in our
office, and I am sure they will let him stay on the job as long as he wants.
To really be valuable in this field, (in the US) an engineer should get his
PE license. Experience as an electrician is also invaluable to an engineer
that wants to consider this field.

I have close to 20 years experience as a consulting engineer, and I have
never had trouble finding a position, and have never been laid off or let
go. Any job I have left has been has been to pursue other interests or
change locations.

Mitch Thompson, PE
http://autopanelboard.home.insightbb.com/home.html