DSC 6-zone keypad - defective?

[Charles Booth]

Problem: Customer can not arm system from one of two keypads.

Facts: Two DSC 6-zone keypads in house, installed maybe ten years ago
(a guess on my part).

Simple system consisting of three or four doors and one or two PIRs.

I know nothing about DSC systems, but am in the business for 41 years.

I've been to the house once about six months ago; we did not install
the system; I do not have the keypad part number or the control panel
number.

The customer, at my direction via phone, reports that the green ready
light goes off and on when the nearby door is opened and closed. The
code does not arm the system, or at least the red light does not come
on. The good pad, when armed, does not cause the red light to come on
in the "bad" pad. The good pad arms/disarms the system.

After writing the above paragraph I realized that its possible that
the red led in the "bad" pad may be defective; I will call the
customer to arm the system with the good pad and see if, by entering
the code in the "bad" pad, the system disarms.

In the event that the keypad is found to be defective, do I need to
perform any programming after replacing the pad?

Thanks.

 

[Frank Olson]

Problem: Customer can not arm system from one of two keypads.

Facts: Two DSC 6-zone keypads in house, installed maybe ten years ago
(a guess on my part).

Simple system consisting of three or four doors and one or two PIRs.

I know nothing about DSC systems, but am in the business for 41 years.

I've been to the house once about six months ago; we did not install
the system; I do not have the keypad part number or the control panel
number.

The customer, at my direction via phone, reports that the green ready
light goes off and on when the nearby door is opened and closed. The
code does not arm the system, or at least the red light does not come
on. The good pad, when armed, does not cause the red light to come on
in the "bad" pad. The good pad arms/disarms the system.

After writing the above paragraph I realized that its possible that
the red led in the "bad" pad may be defective; I will call the
customer to arm the system with the good pad and see if, by entering
the code in the "bad" pad, the system disarms.

In the event that the keypad is found to be defective, do I need to
perform any programming after replacing the pad?

Thanks.

 

[Frank Olson]

Problem: Customer can not arm system from one of two keypads.

Facts: Two DSC 6-zone keypads in house, installed maybe ten years ago
(a guess on my part).

Simple system consisting of three or four doors and one or two PIRs.

I know nothing about DSC systems, but am in the business for 41 years.

I've been to the house once about six months ago; we did not install
the system; I do not have the keypad part number or the control panel
number.

The customer, at my direction via phone, reports that the green ready
light goes off and on when the nearby door is opened and closed. The
code does not arm the system, or at least the red light does not come
on. The good pad, when armed, does not cause the red light to come on
in the "bad" pad. The good pad arms/disarms the system.

After writing the above paragraph I realized that its possible that
the red led in the "bad" pad may be defective; I will call the
customer to arm the system with the good pad and see if, by entering
the code in the "bad" pad, the system disarms.

In the event that the keypad is found to be defective, do I need to
perform any programming after replacing the pad?

Sorry... hit "send" accidentally... From the sound of it you have a DSC
PC-1500 series system here. It's rare that an LED will burn out (it
happens, but not that often). I'd look for a loose wire somewhere. The
1500 series keypads are fairly simple to remove. You insert a small
screwdriver into the slot underneath and push up while firmly pulling the
bottom of the keypad away from the wall. Once you've determined that all
the wires are secure, connect the keypad directly to the terminals in the
common control. If it still doesn't respond, you've got a bad keypad.

Jim Rojas at http://www.tech-man.com still has some of the older model DSC
keypads available. DSC no longer manufactures the 1500, or the 1550.

 

[Frank Olson]

message

The model number of the control is stamped on the main system board. The
model number of the keypad will be visible on its board once you've removed
it from the wall.

 

[Robert Skinner]

If the keypad is bad, there are no programming requirements necessary when
changing out the old keypad.

1. Check for bad LED as you indicated in your original post
2. Check all connections
3. Check for voltage at the good keypad and the bad keypad to see if they
are the same.

The three panels that I remember with six zones were the 1500, 1550 and
1575.

Keypads for 1500 and 1575 are not sold new anymore, but may be available
from Mr. Rojas. 1550 keypads are still available new.


Good luck!

Note to Bass "none support LCD keypads"

 

[petem]

If the keypad is bad, there are no programming requirements necessary when
changing out the old keypad.

1. Check for bad LED as you indicated in your original post
2. Check all connections
3. Check for voltage at the good keypad and the bad keypad to see if they
are the same.

The three panels that I remember with six zones were the 1500, 1550 and
1575.

Keypads for 1500 and 1575 are not sold new anymore, but may be available
from Mr. Rojas. 1550 keypads are still available new.


Good luck!

Note to Bass "none support LCD keypads"

Note to Skinner "DSC used to sell some LDC 600 Keypad that worked on PC
1500,1550,2500,2550,3000"

 

[Jim Parker]

If both keypads display the same information then the data output of
the suspect keypad may be bad. If the suspect keypad beeps when a key
is pressed but fails when the correct code is entered then the keymat
is bad and the keypad must be replaced. Normally when a code is
entered the keypad will beep 3 times for a valid code or emit a steady
tone for an invalid code. Immediatly following that it will beep 3
times if the system has armed or emit a steady tone if the system has
failed to arm. You should be able to use these clues to determine if
your customers are having difficulty with the system or if the keypad
is indeed defective. Perhaps the suspect keypad is in front of a
motion detector which is tripping and preventing arming (force arming
is not on by default)?

 

[Jim Parker]

If both keypads display the same information then the data output of
the suspect keypad may be bad. If the suspect keypad beeps when a key
is pressed but fails when the correct code is entered then the keymat
is bad and the keypad must be replaced. When a code is entered the
keypad will beep 3 times for a valid code or emit a steady tone for an
invalid code. Immediatly following that it will beep 3 times if the
system has armed or emit a steady tone if the system has failed to
arm. You should be able to use these clues to determine if your
customers are having difficulty with the system or if the keypad is
indeed defective. Perhaps the suspect keypad is in front of a motion
detector which is tripping and preventing arming (force arming is not
on by default).

 

[alarman]

Robert L. Bass wrote

Note to Skinner: It would help if you knew what you were talking about
before jumping in.
Note to Skinner: LEDs almost never wear out.
Note to Skinner: Better than #3, swap the keypads and see if the problem
follows the keypad or stays in one location. That will tell you more than a
simple voltage check. Odds are the problem will follow the keypad.
However, experienced installers who do more than "lick and stick" wireless
jobs like Skinner also know that one possible cause of erratic keypad
operation is AC induction. While induction problems usually show up right
away they can and sometimes do crop up quite a while after the job is
finished. Any inducted AC in the data lines can kick the jiminex out of the
system. Problems can be localized to a single keypad or system wide.

Inducted AC? Inducted? Do you mean induced?

I think Mr. Skinner has forgotten more about installing alarms than you ever
knew, you pompous ass.
js

 

[Robert Skinner]

If you follow the bass link you will not find the LCD 600 keypad listed. I
do agree that I did forget that model.

 

[Robert Skinner]

Bass, before I start to look for unusual things like AC induction, I check
simple things first. For example, has the keypad got power? Has the keypad
have the correct power? If the simple things don't work then I start with
the more obscure remedies.

Had you installed a system in the past ten years you may remember the KISS
method. It save loads of service time.

I am sure the OP has probably ten times the experience you or I have and has
probably forgotten more about identifying problems than you ever knew.

At least I have the courtesy to refer him to a respected professional (Jim
Rojas) and not to a ripped off faq archive.

 

[Robert Skinner]

I was not trying to contradict you, I was trying to assist you. Your faq
pointed the "op" to what product? If he searched LCD keypads or your site
without knowing the actual product, what would he find?

Your response was the same flames that we always see towards installers and
other legitimate company owners. You are pathetic.

than of
the

Inducted AC? Inducted? Do you mean induced?

===

in·duct (P) Pronunciation Key (n-dkt)
tr.v. in·duct·ed, in·duct·ing, in·ducts
1. To place ceremoniously or formally in an office or a position; install: a
service to induct the new president of the university.

2. a. To admit as a member; receive.
b. To admit to military service: a draftee waiting to be inducted into
the army.
c. To introduce, as to new experience or knowledge; initiate: She was
inducted into the ways of the legal profession.

3. Physics. To induce.

[Middle English inducten, from Latin indcere, induct-. See induce.]

===

in·duc·tion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (n-dkshn)
n.

1. a. The act or an instance of inducting.
b. A ceremony or formal act by which a person is inducted, as into
office or military service.

2. Electricity.
a. The generation of electromotive force in a closed circuit by a
varying magnetic flux through the circuit.

===

Both quotes above are from the American Heritage® Dictionary of the English
Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.

I was discussing AC induction. If that is confusing to you, perhaps I can
suggest a good high school physics text.

I think Mr. Skinner has forgotten more about installing
alarms than you ever knew, --- snip gratuitous insult ---

Your pal Mr. Skinner was in such a hurry to contradict me that he forgot
what little he may have known about alarms in the process. From the things
he has posted over the years he'd probably be a half-decent second string
helper but not someone I'd trust to actually hold power tools.

 

[Charles Booth]

Thanks all for tips.

Will try the swap test first.

Customer reported that no beeps came from either of the pads when
depressing the buttons. Also no talk-back beeps when entering an
incorrect code at either pad.

Will visit site today/tomorrow and report back here with results.

 

[Jackcsg]

That's what I love about this group. Spend 150 Man hours discussing how to
fix a problem that is less than 50 bucks to fix. I have a ground fault on my
fire alarm...where should I start? Earth?

Jack

 

[Frank Olson]

That's what I love about this group. Spend 150 Man hours discussing how to
fix a problem that is less than 50 bucks to fix. I have a ground fault on my
fire alarm...where should I start? Earth?

It doesn't matter where you start... it'll always be the last device you
check... )

 

[Jackcsg]

And give up this view? No way. It's more entertaining up here....

Jack

 

[Mark Leuck]

Actually you are in a way still correct, You had to program those keypads
outside of panel programming because the panels really didn't support LCD
keypads but the LCD keypads did support the panel

None of those panels supported direct programming of the alpha within panel
programming and you cannot download alpha into them, essentially the panel
didn't know or care if it had an alpha keypad or not