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Downed power lines

  • Thread starter Abstract Dissonance
  • Start date
J

John Fields

Jan 1, 1970
0
All of your stories (especially the horse one) could warn anyone to never
walk anywhere. All the things you mention COULD happen if I was to get
unluckier than usual. But I will probably get hit on the head by a meteorite
after getting mugged on my way to the scene anyway. So I'd better join the
rest of you hiding under the bed with the bogeyman.
OR, I could play the percentages, go with the generalized voltage gradient
graph, and walk out in the backyard without worrying that I was going to
step on a metallic ore outcropping that had gotten connected to a loose
wire.
WOW! ain't I BRAVE!
 
M

Michael A. Terrell

Jan 1, 1970
0
All of your stories (especially the horse one) could warn anyone to never
walk anywhere. All the things you mention COULD happen if I was to get
unluckier than usual. But I will probably get hit on the head by a meteorite
after getting mugged on my way to the scene anyway. So I'd better join the
rest of you hiding under the bed with the bogeyman.
OR, I could play the percentages, go with the generalized voltage gradient
graph, and walk out in the backyard without worrying that I was going to
step on a metallic ore outcropping that had gotten connected to a loose
wire.
WOW! ain't I BRAVE!


More like brain dead. A "metallic ore outcropping" would have a low
resistance and would be safer than fairly dry soil. You are fighting a
loosing battle, just like all the other crap threads you start.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
 
G

Guest

Jan 1, 1970
0
I never started ANY threads in ANY electronic or electrical newsgroup. This
thread was started by "Abstract Dissonance"? sp? I'm not going to look it up
because I don't care anymore.
I could postulate some oddball situation where the ore was surrounded by an
insulating layer, but that would be something you would do to prove a point.
If I said the sky was blue, you would find some little cloud just to show me
up. If I said the grass was green, you could find a little brown spot, and
crow about how dumb I was and how smart you are.
 
M

Michael A. Terrell

Jan 1, 1970
0
I never started ANY threads in ANY electronic or electrical newsgroup. This
thread was started by "Abstract Dissonance"? sp? I'm not going to look it up
because I don't care anymore.


Yes, you're right. You post on the same level of misconceptions, and
I lost track.

I could postulate some oddball situation where the ore was surrounded by an
insulating layer, but that would be something you would do to prove a point.
If I said the sky was blue, you would find some little cloud just to show me
up. If I said the grass was green, you could find a little brown spot, and
crow about how dumb I was and how smart you are.


If you are wrong, you are wrong. Without doing a lot of accurate
measurements and crating a map for that specific fault, its not safe.
Period. You can't bend the laws of Physics no matter how long you hold
your breath and stomp your foot in anger.


Sometimes the sky isn't blue. Have you ever watched the Aurora
Borealis up close? The whole night sky is all kinds of brilliant
colors. There isn't a color in the visible spectrum that you won't see,
if you watch it long enough. Try watching it from the top of a TV tower
in Alaska sometime. I don't care what color the grass is. When it
needs cut, it needs cut. A brown patch of grass here means that we've
had lots of rain. Otherwise its all brown in the Florida heat.

--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
 
B

Bobo The Chimp

Jan 1, 1970
0
BTW, I checked that link about "step voltage" and it confirmed my
observation that IF you are entering an energized area from the outside, you
will get plenty of warning that the step voltage is increasing, and every
opportunity to leave the area under your own power (without hopping). The
graph shows that the voltage gradient is almost horizontal and increases
gradually near the outside edge of the affected area. I don't know how you
sleep at night for worrying about the bogeyman.

Look, dude, if you're that obsessed with handling downed power lines, why
not email the Darwin Awards, and have them send a camera crew to observe
while you perform the experment of using your magical tool to de-energize
the wire and save the world?

Good Luck!
Bobo
 
G

Guest

Jan 1, 1970
0
So what are you going to do when the lights go out? Will you keep on playing
with nice safe 12V toys and hope someone else will take care of it? What do
you have to offer to that someone else? How will you even know who that
someone else is if you resist dealing with HV yourself? It takes one to know
one, so I will study HV and maybe even get a little practice (even if it is
dangerous) and let the people who won't help just live in the dark.
 
G

Guest

Jan 1, 1970
0
Bout time I pointed out that Darwin is most known for the "survival of the
fittest" catch phrase and you "Darwin Awarders" are trying to give your
"Darwin Award" to the most unfit who didn't survive. I'll dance on your
grave.
 
E

ehsjr

Jan 1, 1970
0
John said:
---
What short circuit? "Grounded" doesn't mean that it's laying on the
ground, you stupid shit, grounded means that it's electrically
connected to a zero volt reference. Drive a ground rod six feet or
so into damp earth and that might be a good "ground", but a high
voltage line which has fallen onto asphalt or even concrete or dry
earth isn't really grounded very well if it's not passing much
current.
---

Exactly right - and even worse than you indicate.
Apparently the bolt cutter/long pole/garden rake
one foot hopping crowd has never seen what they are
speculating about. The damn wires dance! Jump around
all over the place. We had one go down in the snow,
and it stayed live for many hours. Burned one impressive
hole in the dirt - about 3' in diameter (roughly
circular shaped) and 4 to 6 inches down. And it burned
several smaller holes where it jumped. There was over a
foot of snow on the ground, so it wasn't dry at all.
Where the wire was, it melted the snow, and somehow
burned into the soil. There were flames coming out of
the hole. The cops closed the street and we waited a long
time for Con Ed to 1) shut off the power and 2) an even
longer time to fix it. It was a big ice storm and there
were outages all over the place.

I still don't understand how dirt burns. All the grass
was long gone, yet flames would still come out periodically.
Simply amazing.

Ed
 
M

Michael A. Terrell

Jan 1, 1970
0
So what are you going to do when the lights go out? Will you keep on playing
with nice safe 12V toys and hope someone else will take care of it? What do
you have to offer to that someone else? How will you even know who that
someone else is if you resist dealing with HV yourself? It takes one to know
one, so I will study HV and maybe even get a little practice (even if it is
dangerous) and let the people who won't help just live in the dark.


Go ahead and play with the downed wires. At least you won't be around
beating off while you type with one hand.

I have worked with high voltage. A 10 KV DC power supply for three 65
KW Klystrons at WACX TV on their 5 MW EIRP UHF TV transmitter in Orange
City Florida. I worked around a 2 MW RADAR at Ft. Rucker Alabama. Lots
of 480 VAC three phase circuits at 100 amps or more. I learned to
respect high voltage, something you seem unwilling to do. You rarely
live through the first mistake, but in your case I am past the point of
caring. Just don't do it where you'll splatter your blood and guts on
innocent people when you go for that flaming death. You might even make
the news as the local "Flaming idiot of the week".


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
 
E

ehsjr

Jan 1, 1970
0
Abstract said:
Nope, What I was after if the general principle was right. Now, any
electrical engineer who actually learned something in school could easily
answer the question. He would also not hesitate go through powerlines if he
knew how to ground them. Just like a chemist is not afraid to mix two
chemicals because he knows what he is doing even if those chemicals are very
dangerous(probably more then downed powerlines). If there is a simple
physical law that exist here such as "electricity takes the path of least
resistance" then there should be no reason to have any problem with downed
powerlines if you can make sure you are not the path of least
resistance(ofcourse theres never a way to be completely sure but an
electrical engineer would be more confident then a philosophy major).

There is a simple physical law. "Electricity takes the path of
least resistance, most resistance, and everything in between."

Being in between a HV line and ground can make you dead.
Hypothetically, as well as actually, dead.
 
J

jasen

Jan 1, 1970
0
Bullshit. There is a Neutral wire run along with the HV lines.

no there isn't. it's not needed. all load currents are accied in the three
phase conductors.

There is an earth wire run between the tops of the pylons (for lightning
protection) but that doesn't carry any power currents.
The ground rods connected to the neutral are to reduce lightning damage.
There were a few installs using the earth for a return, but they were
not very efficient, and had crappy voltage regulation, not to mention
they could kill you if you were barefoot and walked too close to the end
of the line, where the return went to ground. Using the earth as a
return conductor has been illegal for decades

http://tdworld.com/mag/power_one_wire_enough/

I've not heard any stories of that happening here, still used AFAIK.

Bye.
Jasen
 
M

Michael A. Terrell

Jan 1, 1970
0
jasen said:
no there isn't. it's not needed. all load currents are accied in the three
phase conductors.

There is an earth wire run between the tops of the pylons (for lightning
protection) but that doesn't carry any power currents.


http://tdworld.com/mag/power_one_wire_enough/

I've not heard any stories of that happening here, still used AFAIK.

Bye.
Jasen


Did you read that page? It states what i said, that they are not
effecient, with up to half the voltage dropped in the return path. Not
practical in anything but the smallest loads, and illegal in the US.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
 
G

Guest

Jan 1, 1970
0
Yes I have once seen a wire that was really, really "live". A trolley wire
that can down. Who in this thread said anything about dealing with something
like that? Not me! Not anyone! I have also seen many more wires that were
down and not jumping around.
What is going to be your next act? Are you going to paste a picture of
Osama on a punching bag, beat the crap out of the picture, and claim you
beat up Osama?
Your debating trick is so old it even has a name, it is called the "straw
man" tactic.
 
G

Guest

Jan 1, 1970
0
I was going to drop this thread because it is off topic for this newsgroup.
HV in this newsgroup is like cheering for Bush at a democratic convention.
But I gotta get one last shot in---
So YOU worked with HV. And survived! But no one else can do what you claimed
to do because? because?
 
G

Guest

Jan 1, 1970
0
I'll fill in the blank for you.
But no one else can do what you claimed to do because---
your ego would take a severe thrashing if even a monkey like you claim I am
could be trained to handle HV.
 
M

Michael A. Terrell

Jan 1, 1970
0
I'll fill in the blank for you.
But no one else can do what you claimed to do because---
your ego would take a severe thrashing if even a monkey like you claim I am
could be trained to handle HV.


You aren't trained for anything other than dancing and holding out
your tin cup as your owner cranks the handle on his organ. I already
told you that I no longer care what happens to you, but others are
reading the thread that need to know the dangers. I've been hit wit 26
KV at a low current and it hurts like hell. I didn't touch anything,
there was a pinhole in the insulation and it arced to my arm. Enjoy
your first shock, but you better hope and pray it isn't your last. The
only one here with an ego problem is you. Numerous people with HV
experience have tried to explain the dangers, but you won't listen.
Good bye. Go back under your bridge with the other trolls and fairies.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
 
A

Alan B

Jan 1, 1970
0
The damn wires dance! Jump around
all over the place.

Precisely why the utilities shut off the breakers and disconnects before
messing with downed lines. Even with a hotstick, proper ANSI boots and
gloves, and full knowledge of step potential, a worker could go poking at
the line and it could snap around anywhere. You could put your eye out
with that thing.
 
B

BobG

Jan 1, 1970
0
Michael said:
You are fighting a loosing battle
====================================
This is where both sides let loose their armies to engage each other.
Ulimately, one will lose, and be declared the loser.
 
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