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Do DC electric motors lose magnetism over time? How long, for electric vehicles?

Would anybody have any information on Brushed DC electric motors, 24V,
1500W, and typically how much magnetism (and power output) is going to
be lost over 3-6 years? Solutions, if any?
 
H

Homer J Simpson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Would anybody have any information on Brushed DC electric motors, 24V,
1500W, and typically how much magnetism (and power output) is going to
be lost over 3-6 years? Solutions, if any?

About 0%. What makes you think they'll lose magnetism? It isn't 1940 any
more.


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| | / _` | '_ ` _ \ | __ |/ _ \| '_ ` _ \ / _ \ '__|
_| |_ | (_| | | | | | | | | | | (_) | | | | | | __/ |
|_____| \__,_|_| |_| |_| |_| |_|\___/|_| |_| |_|\___|_|
__ ____
/ _| | _ \
___ | |_ | |_) | ___ _ __ __ _
/ _ \| _| | _ < / _ \| '__/ _` |
| (_) | | | |_) | (_) | | | (_| |_
\___/|_| |____/ \___/|_| \__, (_)
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P

Paul E. Schoen

Jan 1, 1970
0
Homer J Simpson said:
About 0%. What makes you think they'll lose magnetism? It isn't 1940 any
more.
I think most modern magnets, especially the powerful rare earth variety,
will hold their magnetism almost indefinitely, and even older magnets do
not deteriorate very much when they have a complete magnetic path (like the
"keepers" on old horseshoe magnets. The iron in the rotor of a DC motor
serves the same function. However, I have heard that magnets can lose their
field when overheated, as may happen in electric vehicles when you subject
the motor to overload conditions. I believe this happens at the "Curie
Point", and I don't know if it is a permanent loss or if magnetism returns
when cooled.

I am convinced that three phase AC induction motors are the best choice for
vehicles, and they are increasingly being used in locomotives. They are
very rugged and inexpensive, requiring very little maintenance, and have
very impressive power to size and weight ratios if you use PWM VF drives
and push the frequency to 150 Hz, or even beyond 400 Hz with special
laminations. The drive electronics are more complex, but the technology is
well understood and controllers are often quite inexpensive.

Paul
 
Would anybody have any information on Brushed DC electric motors, 24V,
1500W, and typically how much magnetism (and power output) is going to
be lost over 3-6 years? Solutions, if any?

It depends on how you control the armature current as well as the
armature design. Provided you allways keep the current withing the
motors rating you should not suffer any demagnetisation.
 
P

Piotr Piatek

Jan 1, 1970
0
Would anybody have any information on Brushed DC electric motors, 24V,
1500W, and typically how much magnetism (and power output) is going to
be lost over 3-6 years? Solutions, if any?

Does such large motor contain a permanent magnet at all? Just
wondering.

Piotr
 
S

Sven Wilhelmsson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Piotr said:
Does such large motor contain a permanent magnet at all? Just
wondering.

Piotr

When we talk about Brushed DC motors, I guess the answer is no.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I think however that we in the future will see electronically commutated
high speed PM motors in this power range.

I have been experimenting on light, high speed, iron less motors for model
airplanes, and if this technique is extrapolated to electric cars I think
it would be feasible to make a 20kW motor with 95% efficiency weighing 10
Kg or even less.

But the auto industry is known to be conservative, so I don't expect to see
this technique in cars in my lifetime :-(
 
H

Homer J Simpson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Piotr Piatek said:
Does such large motor contain a permanent magnet at all? Just
wondering.

2 HP? I don't see why not.


--
_____ _ _
|_ _| | | | |
| | __ _ _ __ ___ | |__| | ___ _ __ ___ ___ _ __
| | / _` | '_ ` _ \ | __ |/ _ \| '_ ` _ \ / _ \ '__|
_| |_ | (_| | | | | | | | | | | (_) | | | | | | __/ |
|_____| \__,_|_| |_| |_| |_| |_|\___/|_| |_| |_|\___|_|
__ ____
/ _| | _ \
___ | |_ | |_) | ___ _ __ __ _
/ _ \| _| | _ < / _ \| '__/ _` |
| (_) | | | |_) | (_) | | | (_| |_
\___/|_| |____/ \___/|_| \__, (_)
__/ |
|___/











....

....
 
S

Sven Wilhelmsson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Homer said:
2 HP? I don't see why not.

In the normal case it is better to use copper to magnetize a motor of this
size. An exception may be when efficiency is very important.
 
P

Phil Hobbs

Jan 1, 1970
0
Sven said:
Piotr Piatek wrote:




When we talk about Brushed DC motors, I guess the answer is no.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I think however that we in the future will see electronically commutated
high speed PM motors in this power range.

I have been experimenting on light, high speed, iron less motors for model
airplanes, and if this technique is extrapolated to electric cars I think
it would be feasible to make a 20kW motor with 95% efficiency weighing 10
Kg or even less.

But the auto industry is known to be conservative, so I don't expect to see
this technique in cars in my lifetime :-(

In motors of less than 1/2 horsepower or thereabouts, the amount of
power required for the field coils becomes a prohibitively large
fraction of the total power, which makes permanent-magnet motors
attractive. Above that, the field coils are not a big problem.

Cheers,

Phil Hobbs
 
Sven said:
But the auto industry is known to be conservative, so I don't expect to see
this technique in cars in my lifetime :-(

Funny you should say that, Ive just been looking at a hybrid mini.
fantastic performance and 80 miles to the gallon.
 
M

Michael

Jan 1, 1970
0
Piotr Piatek said:
Does such large motor contain a permanent magnet at all? Just
wondering.

Piotr

I'm got three 36V 2hp motors, all of which are PM DC motors.....

Michael
 
H

Homer J Simpson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Funny you should say that, Ive just been looking at a hybrid mini.
fantastic performance and 80 miles to the gallon.

Bring back the Fiat 500 I say!

--
_____ _ _
|_ _| | | | |
| | __ _ _ __ ___ | |__| | ___ _ __ ___ ___ _ __
| | / _` | '_ ` _ \ | __ |/ _ \| '_ ` _ \ / _ \ '__|
_| |_ | (_| | | | | | | | | | | (_) | | | | | | __/ |
|_____| \__,_|_| |_| |_| |_| |_|\___/|_| |_| |_|\___|_|
__ ____
/ _| | _ \
___ | |_ | |_) | ___ _ __ __ _
/ _ \| _| | _ < / _ \| '__/ _` |
| (_) | | | |_) | (_) | | | (_| |_
\___/|_| |____/ \___/|_| \__, (_)
__/ |
|___/











....

....
 
K

Kevin White

Jan 1, 1970
0
Sven said:
When we talk about Brushed DC motors, I guess the answer is no.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I think however that we in the future will see electronically commutated
high speed PM motors in this power range.

I have been experimenting on light, high speed, iron less motors for model
airplanes, and if this technique is extrapolated to electric cars I think
it would be feasible to make a 20kW motor with 95% efficiency weighing 10
Kg or even less.

But the auto industry is known to be conservative, so I don't expect to see
this technique in cars in my lifetime :-(
....

Toyota's current production hybrid vehicles already use electronically
commutated permanent magnet motors with powers of up to 110KW.

keviin
 
B

Brian

Jan 1, 1970
0
Would anybody have any information on Brushed DC electric motors, 24V,
1500W, and typically how much magnetism (and power output) is going to
be lost over 3-6 years? Solutions, if any?

I've been servicing a CNC lathe for 29 years now, that uses two PM brushed
DC motors on their servos (3 horsepower). Under normal conditions, the motor
doesn't lose it's magnetism. On the other hand, if the motors bell housing
builds up with too much carbon dust inside it (from the brushes) and it
flashes over, sometimes it will weaken the magnets. This causes the servo's
to become unstable. We then either have to have the motor's permanent
magnets re-magnetized (preferred) or change the servo's response circuits.
Brian
 
H

Homer J Simpson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Paul Hovnanian P.E. said:
Homer J Simpson wrote:

The BMW Isetta.

Can you get 5 people and one suitcase in one of those?


--
_____ _ _
|_ _| | | | |
| | __ _ _ __ ___ | |__| | ___ _ __ ___ ___ _ __
| | / _` | '_ ` _ \ | __ |/ _ \| '_ ` _ \ / _ \ '__|
_| |_ | (_| | | | | | | | | | | (_) | | | | | | __/ |
|_____| \__,_|_| |_| |_| |_| |_|\___/|_| |_| |_|\___|_|
__ ____
/ _| | _ \
___ | |_ | |_) | ___ _ __ __ _
/ _ \| _| | _ < / _ \| '__/ _` |
| (_) | | | |_) | (_) | | | (_| |_
\___/|_| |____/ \___/|_| \__, (_)
__/ |
|___/











....

....
 
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