DIY Distillation Columns

[Curbie]

I've taken a pretty hard look at mobile fuels (SVO, Bio-diesel,
Ethanol, Methane, Hydrogen, and Electricity) and the only one in my
view that has a sustainable DIY potential on a home-scale is ethanol.
I base my conclusion on the ability to grow and process the feedstock,
the cost of equipment and energy to process the fuel, the cost of
engines and conversion to run the fuel, and fuel density.

I've accumulated a lot of DIY documentation over the years and the
best DIY distillation column I've been able to find is called the
"Charles 803":
http://e85info.eu/utmutato.pdf
http://www.beutilityfree.com/pdf_files/3ColumnKitV1.4.pdf

This distillation column is reportedly capable of 5 gallons of 180
proof ethanol per hour.

Questions:
1) Has anyone seen the blue-prints for one of these???
2) Do they differ much from the plans given in the
documentation???
3) Does anyone have (or know anyone that has) experience with one
of these???
4) Does anyone know of a better DIY home-scale design???

Thanks,

Curbie

 

[Curbie]

Jim,

There are a lot of free e-books on-line for free:

The Manual for the Home and Farm Production of Alcohol Fuel
http://www.journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_manual/manual_ToC.html

Mother Earth Alcohol Fuel
http://www.journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/meToC.html

They are not "State of the Art", but there's a ton of good information
in them, they cover in great detail feedstock, crop yields,
fermentation, and distillation, although the distillation columns in
these publications seem dated.

Thanks,

Curbie

 

[Malcom \Mal\ Reynolds]

<7vhek55mkp5nqpi2vofeer59pjpe14ooh8@4ax.
com>,
Curbie <[email protected]>
wrote:

Questions:
1) Has anyone seen the blue-prints for one of these???
2) Do they differ much from the plans given in the
documentation???
3) Does anyone have (or know anyone that has) experience with one
of these???
4) Does anyone know of a better DIY home-scale design???

Thanks,

Curbie

Don't know if this is applicable, but if
you live in a cold enough climate you
can put your fermented liquid in trays
and freeze the water out. It may not be
totally satisfactory, but whatever water
you freeze out is water you don't have
to distill out

 

[Curbie]

Jim,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractionating_column
Has the best Bubble cap plate column image/description I've seen (not
the easiest DIY build or to clean), but an interesting .PDF in the
"external links".

Thanks,

Curbie

 

[Curbie]

Malcom,

Interesting notion, but the longer a feedstock sits around between
harvest and fermentation (waiting for freezing temperatures), the more
of it's sugars are lost to bacteria, plus I would loose my
fermentation heat 145°F (68°C) to the freezing and need to replenish
it on the remaining smaller amount of frigid alcohol, I don't know for
sure without running some numbers where the point diminishing returns
is, but sound like a fun experiment.

Thanks,

Curbie

 

[amdx]

I've taken a pretty hard look at mobile fuels (SVO, Bio-diesel,
Ethanol, Methane, Hydrogen, and Electricity) and the only one in my
view that has a sustainable DIY potential on a home-scale is ethanol.
I base my conclusion on the ability to grow and process the feedstock,
the cost of equipment and energy to process the fuel, the cost of
engines and conversion to run the fuel, and fuel density.

Hi Curbie,
Have you looked at Butanol? I don't know how hard it is to make,
but it has a higher energy density than ethanol.
Here are a few links to tweak your interest.
Mike
http://www.evfind.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6&Itemid=2

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/07/boosting_biomas.html

http://agonist.org/jimbo92107/20060604/what_about_butanol

 

[Curbie]

Jim,

Could aluminum be used in a still, I've heard of DIY stills being made
out of copper or stainless steel?

Curbie

 

[Curbie]

Mike,

How have you been, haven't seen you around in a while.

I dug up the patent and skimmed through it:
Patent 7,537,826
http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=U_3GAAAAEBAJ&dq=7,537,826

I've never heard of Butanol as anything other than a fossil-fuel
derivative, but apparently it does have an organic origin.

It's also an old enough technology (WWI) that Google books may have
something on the production process, I'll check there, the old texts
can make for some DIY home-scale processes.

I suspect without really knowing that there some fly in the ointment,
because the technology has been around long enough for some chemistry
student to have revisited it, and an organic one to one gasoline
replacement is very appealing.

Thanks,

Curbie

 

[Malcom \Mal\ Reynolds]

<ctjfk5teg4hb67mfju42glaluuk22ih4ho@4ax.
com>,

Malcom,

Interesting notion, but the longer a feedstock sits around between
harvest and fermentation (waiting for freezing temperatures), the more
of it's sugars are lost to bacteria, plus I would loose my
fermentation heat 145°F (68°C) to the freezing and need to replenish
it on the remaining smaller amount of frigid alcohol, I don't know for
sure without running some numbers where the point diminishing returns
is, but sound like a fun experiment.

Thanks,

Curbie

Once upon a time some 30+ years ago,
when I was doing the alternative energy
thing (mostly educating campus folks and
nearby farmers) we were heavy into the
notion of farmer alcohol production.
Somewhere in the process I uncovered
information on a farmer in I believe
Minnesota who was doing the freezing
thing. I don't know the efficiency or
anything else about it, but the notion
has always stuck in my head.

I can't address the bacteria problem
except to think that keeping the process
as sterile as possible should help, but
I really would like to see what kind of
numbers you come up with

 

[Curbie]

Malcom,

I started of cheesy spread-sheet this morning to take a rough look at
heat energy savings and came up with an initial heat saving of ~250%,
that number is NOT correct, but is large enough to push it some more.

I'll post the sheet out here so everyone can beat it up when it's
done; the question remains, will the heat savings outweigh the need
for a larger crop to compensate sugar lost to bacteria in the wait for
freezing ambient temperatures?

The bacteria I'm referring to is present in the feedstock, the
bacteria that cause stuff to rot, and generally starts on sugars
first.

That answer should be easy to get with few experiments though.

Curbie

 

[Malcom \Mal\ Reynolds]

<0khhk5p5r4801oi99hhe1dp8br4sv2e0cu@4ax.
com>,

Malcom,

I started of cheesy spread-sheet this morning to take a rough look at
heat energy savings and came up with an initial heat saving of ~250%,
that number is NOT correct, but is large enough to push it some more.

I'll post the sheet out here so everyone can beat it up when it's
done; the question remains, will the heat savings outweigh the need
for a larger crop to compensate sugar lost to bacteria in the wait for
freezing ambient temperatures?

The bacteria I'm referring to is present in the feedstock, the
bacteria that cause stuff to rot, and generally starts on sugars
first.

That answer should be easy to get with few experiments though.

Curbie

Thanks for the update.

Is there no reasonable solution to the
bacteria problem? I'm thinking anaerobic
storage or even freezing (which of
course has a big energy hit). Or maybe a
simple bactericide.

 

[Curbie]

Malcom,

I think the first question that needs an answer is "how big of problem
is there?", I think only then will I be able to weight the rough cost
of any particular solution, and then the total effectiveness of the
freezing concept.

Curbie

 

[Malcom \Mal\ Reynolds]

<deokk5ljvsfk63hp8dndebbqbscp85vsv0@4ax.
com>,

Malcom,

I think the first question that needs an answer is "how big of problem
is there?", I think only then will I be able to weight the rough cost
of any particular solution, and then the total effectiveness of the
freezing concept.

Curbie

Fair enough

 

[Steve Ackman]

I've taken a pretty hard look at mobile fuels (SVO, Bio-diesel,
Ethanol, Methane, Hydrogen, and Electricity) and the only one in my
view that has a sustainable DIY potential on a home-scale is ethanol.

Methane? Mobile? That's quite a low energy
density gas.

Henry Ford, OTOH, used to get 1000 gallons of methanol
per acre growing and converting hemp early last century,
which is why his early tractors and cars could run either.

I base my conclusion on the ability to grow and process the feedstock,
the cost of equipment and energy to process the fuel, the cost of
engines and conversion to run the fuel, and fuel density.

How about the energy to compress methane to any kind
of reasonable energy density?

I've accumulated a lot of DIY documentation over the years and the
best DIY distillation column I've been able to find is called the
"Charles 803":
http://e85info.eu/utmutato.pdf
http://www.beutilityfree.com/pdf_files/3ColumnKitV1.4.pdf

This distillation column is reportedly capable of 5 gallons of 180
proof ethanol per hour.

Questions:
1) Has anyone seen the blue-prints for one of these???
2) Do they differ much from the plans given in the
documentation???
3) Does anyone have (or know anyone that has) experience with one
of these???
4) Does anyone know of a better DIY home-scale design???

I haven't looked at them all, but, some of these
might be of interest:

http://www.motherearthnews.com/search.aspx?search=distillation column
http://www.motherearthnews.com/search.aspx?search=ethanol still

 

[Curbie]

Steve,

Steve,

Methane? Mobile? That's quite a low energy
density gas.

It's better than hydrogen, in which so many are trying to use as a
mobile fuel, at least there is one carbon atom binding four hydrogen
atoms into a larger molecule. I just won't know what the problems are
not unless I look at the different concepts.

Henry Ford, OTOH, used to get 1000 gallons of methanol
per acre growing and converting hemp early last century,
which is why his early tractors and cars could run either.

Moot, illegal crops are measured in years in prison per acre not
gallons per acre; that notion remains a political issue and not a
feedstock issue and since legal crops like switch-grass and Jerusalem
Artichokes yields are roughly the same, one that doesn't really
concern ethanol production.

How about the energy to compress methane to any kind
of reasonable energy density?

I listed that as fuel density, but you're right, that's the real
hurdle for both methane and hydrogen as a mobile fuel.

I haven't looked at them all, but, some of these
might be of interest:

http://www.motherearthnews.com/search.aspx?search=distillation column
http://www.motherearthnews.com/search.aspx?search=ethanol still

Here's the ethanol compilation written by Mother Earth News
http://www.journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/meToC.html

Thanks,

Curbie

 

[Steve Ackman]

Steve,

It's better than hydrogen, in which so many are trying to use as a
mobile fuel, at least there is one carbon atom binding four hydrogen
atoms into a larger molecule. I just won't know what the problems are
not unless I look at the different concepts.

Methane is pretty well regarded as a stationary fuel.

Moot, illegal crops are measured in years in prison per acre not
gallons per acre;

There's no such thing as an illegal crop... only
regional laws against certain crops. IOW, if you
live in Canada, you're perfectly free to grow hemp.
Likewise in many other countries.

that notion remains a political issue and not a
feedstock issue

Yes, it's a political hurdle in most of the US,
but not an insurmountable one. For instance, there
are farmers legally growing hemp in North Dakota,
and Oregon has legalized hemp as well.
Strictly speaking, it's not even illegal to grow
in the US at all... since 1970, you "just" need to get
a DEA permit.

This chart is quite dated, but shows that the legal
status of hemp is nowhere as homogenous as you seem
to imply.,, even as of 5 or 6 years ago:
http://www.industrialhemp.net/state/state030501.html

and since legal crops like switch-grass and Jerusalem
Artichokes yields are roughly the same, one that doesn't really
concern ethanol production.

Jerusalem artichokes would have more food value, I
would think, and I suspect higher soil requirements.
I've grown it before, but only for the tubers.
Switchgrass... I know nothing about except it was a
big buzzword a few years back.

I listed that as fuel density, but you're right, that's the real
hurdle for both methane and hydrogen as a mobile fuel.


Here's the ethanol compilation written by Mother Earth News
http://www.journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/meToC.html

Ah, ok. Doing a 'wget -r' on it. Strange it's by
TMEN, but published on a Japanese site. You'd think
TMEN would have it on their own site.
Looks like journeytoforever has quite the farm
library as well.

 

[Curbie]

Steve,

Methane is pretty well regarded as a stationary fuel.

You need to store a mobile fuel somehow, if you take any standard
D.O.T. 10,000 P.S.I fuel tank of any volume, Methane holds 3.5 times
as much energy as Hydrogen, but the one that holds 3.5 more is
"considered" stationary while the one that holds 3.5 times less is
considered to have mobility potential. Who ever is doing the
considering for energy density (what I was referring to), didn't
consider Gas Law.

There's no such thing as an illegal crop... only
regional laws against certain crops. IOW, if you
live in Canada, you're perfectly free to grow hemp.
Likewise in many other countries.


Yes, it's a political hurdle in most of the US,
but not an insurmountable one. For instance, there
are farmers legally growing hemp in North Dakota,
and Oregon has legalized hemp as well.
Strictly speaking, it's not even illegal to grow
in the US at all... since 1970, you "just" need to get
a DEA permit.

This chart is quite dated, but shows that the legal
status of hemp is nowhere as homogenous as you seem
to imply.,, even as of 5 or 6 years ago:
http://www.industrialhemp.net/state/state030501.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemp#Industrial_growth_under_license
Quote:
"Hemp is illegal to grow in the U.S. under federal law due to its
relation to marijuana, and any imported hemp products must meet a zero
tolerance level. It is considered a controlled substance under the
Controlled Substances Act (P.L. 91-513; 21 U.S.C. 801 et seq.). Some
states have defied federal law and made the cultivation of industrial
hemp legal. These states - North Dakota, Hawaii, Kentucky, Maine,
Maryland, Montana, West Virginia, Vermont, and Oregon - have not yet
begun to grow hemp due to resistance from the federal Drug Enforcement
Administration.

Industrial growth under license

Industrial hemp production in France Licenses for hemp cultivation are
issued in the European Union, Canada, in three states of Australia,
and nine states in the United States."
End Quote:

The bottom line is that if someone wants to grow a feedstock for
ethanol (especially on a home-scale) hemp is a moot point, the
proposed licenses are for Industrial growth and they aren't being
recognized at a federal level yet.

Jerusalem artichokes would have more food value, I
would think, and I suspect higher soil requirements.
I've grown it before, but only for the tubers.
Switchgrass... I know nothing about except it was a
big buzzword a few years back.

The tubers are used as the feedstock for ethanol; Jerusalem Artichokes
are roughly 900/acre, switch-grass yeilds about 1200.

Ah, ok. Doing a 'wget -r' on it. Strange it's by
TMEN, but published on a Japanese site. You'd think
TMEN would have it on their own site.
Looks like journeytoforever has quite the farm
library as well.

No, mostly search motors, and like I said, "I've taken a pretty hard
look at mobile fuels (SVO, Bio-diesel, Ethanol, Methane, Hydrogen, and
Electricity)". I've read every alternative energy web-site I've run
into over last few years, including foreign sites, they seem to be
more serious about alternative energy.

TMEN's web-site is all about the money and JTF's site is all about the
help. You're right JTF's library is a great resource.

Good luck,

Curbie