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Divide a clock frequency by N using combinatorial logic

Discussion in 'Electronic Design' started by bluemoon123, Feb 20, 2007.

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  1. bluemoon123

    bluemoon123 Guest

    Hi,

    Does anyone know how a clock can be divided by N, using purely
    combinatorial logic?

    Thanks.
     
  2. Tim Williams

    Tim Williams Guest

    Gosh, it's so easy I feel dirty even mentioning type D flip-flops.

    Getting a regular, specified duty cycle (such as 50%) for odd N is up to
    you, though.

    Tim
     
  3. TT_Man

    TT_Man Guest

    Perhaps the OP meant just using gates....
     
  4. bluemoon123

    bluemoon123 Guest

    Yes I meant using purely logic gates, without flip-flops.
     
  5. John Barrett

    John Barrett Guest

    a chain of flip flops long enough for your target N
    a little extra logic to trigger the lead flip flop on both the rising and
    falling edge of the input signal
    xor the outputs of the FFs with N
    nor the outputs of the xors
    and use that output to drive an output FF and reset the input FFs
     
  6. Guest

    Don't top-post.

    And you can't build counters without flip-flops - a counter needs to
    remember data from the past, and that can't be done without some kind
    of memory device, which is to say a bistable, also known as a flip-
    flop.

    You build counters from logic gates - which is to say, purely
    combinational logic - so the point is essentially academic, though it
    is tricky to build flip-flops that work reliably using off-the-shelf
    logic gates.
     
  7. Yes.


    --
    Many thanks,

    Don Lancaster voice phone: (928)428-4073
    Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
    rss: http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu.xml email:

    Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com
     
  8. John Larkin

    John Larkin Guest

    Yup, I think so, just nand gates or something. But it will have to
    have internal states, so some people might shout "flipflop!"

    John
     
  9. John Barrett

    John Barrett Guest

    Another solution -- without flip flops this time !!

    Clocked RS latches modified for edge triggering on the clock can be
    cascaded -- would take N latches and you can pick off your output anyplace
    along the chain to get any desired duty cycle. A clocked RS latch expands to
    5 gates, and you'll probably need 2 or 3 more to make it edge triggered,
    which gets you riight up there with the flip flop for gate count per stage,
    but with the disadvantage of not using a counter approach which means many
    more stages for larger N.

    The question then becomes "just exactly HOW PURE" must the combinatorial
    logic be. If you cant build latches or flipflops from gates, I dont think
    its possible.

    Just for grins -- here is a weird way to do it that just uses low level
    gates + some analog components

    http://www.wenzel.com/pdffiles/dividers.pdf
     
  10. John Larkin

    John Larkin Guest

    I think you can also just "walk" states through rs flops (or
    equivalent feedback gadgets) on clock high and low levels, which is
    not exactly edge triggering
    The LC on the dflop thing is cute!

    John
     
  11. Rich Grise

    Rich Grise Guest

    I've gposted cheap trick under the same subject line on a.b.s.e - it's
    out of the 7474 data sheet. ;-)

    Cheers!
    Rich
     
  12. Rich Grise

    Rich Grise Guest

    Sure, it can be done. Just don't call your cross-coupled gates "flipflops"
    - the professor will probably never know the difference. ;-)

    (or you might lose points for coming up with a workable answer to what's
    otherwise an impossible task, in which case "it's impossible" might be the
    intended answer. ;-) )

    Good Luck!
    Rich
     
  13. jasen

    jasen Guest

    build an N-counter in logic.

    Where are you studying?
     
  14. bluemoon123

    bluemoon123 Guest

    I was asked this question in a job interview actually. Thanks everyone
    for your inputs.
     
  15. Phil Hobbs

    Phil Hobbs Guest

    I agree--turning delay from a bug to a feature.

    I built something similar to the rate-multiplier pulse swallower gizmo
    in my first engineering job, back in (ahem) 1982. It used two
    synchronously cascaded decade counters (LS161), and the rate-multiplier
    chain controlled the carry input of the less-significant stage. That
    dropped the jitter from 1 whole output pulse to about 0.015 pulses,
    which was a big help, since I was phase-locking a VCXO off the output.

    Cheers,

    Phil Hobbs
     
  16. There is a simple way to build reliable flip flops from gates. You use
    TWO flip flops per stage, a master and a slave.

    The slave enters the change on one clock edge, and the master keeps it
    on the other.



    --
    Many thanks,

    Don Lancaster voice phone: (928)428-4073
    Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
    rss: http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu.xml email:

    Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com
     
  17. Ken Smith

    Ken Smith Guest


    How about this:

    (1)
    Using five 74ACT inverters, make a slightly delayed and inverted
    version of the clock.

    (2)
    Using another ACT AND the delayed and inverted with the normal clock to
    make a very thin pulse. The output of this AND is called OUT and is the
    output of the circuit. Use a 3 input AND for this to leave an input I'll
    call ENABLE below.

    (3)
    Invert the OUT signal with a 7404. Don't use ACT here.


    (4)
    Get a large number of TTL AND gates and wire them up to do the following
    with the inverted version of OUT (I'll write !OUT)

    Y = !OUT AND (!OUT AND (!OUT AND (!OUT AND ........)))))))))))))))))

    This Y signal is the enable.
     
  18. I remember doing this back in the early days of PALs. I needed what
    amounted to a small counter, and I had unused circuits in a non-
    registered PAL on my board (16L8, I think). The boards were
    wirewrapped between DIP sockets, so changing circuitry was akin to
    crochet (I even used a crochet hook from the craft store to pull out
    deeply-nested 30-ga wires). I found that if I cross-coupled a few
    outputs I could get it to work like I needed. Only afterward did I
    realize I had made "logic-only" flip-flops.
     
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