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disk write cache

Maybe enabling the write cache is not such a great idea after all...

Windows:
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=259716

"By enabling write caching, file system corruption and/or data loss
could occur if the machine experiences a power, device or system
failure and cannot be shutdown properly."

Linux:
http://sr5tech.com/write_back_cache_experiments.htm

"Write back cache on disks or controllers generated file system errors
that rendered the file systems either corrupted or inconsistent. Many
times, the file systems can no longer be mounted. We find that the
problems appear faster (typically fewer than 10 power cycles) when
cache is bigger, such as when there is also write-back cache on the
RAID controllers. Typically, we observed problems within 50 power
cycles."

http://www.jasonbrome.com/blog/archives/2004/04/03/writecache_enabled.html
(to disable write cache)


Thoughts, anyone?

Personally I'd rather have a slower, more reliable drive than have a
fast drive that needs frequent data restores...

Michael
 
How often do you get power outages in your area? :)


Not very often, but occasionally my Win2k system hangs, especially
after running MS Office. Scanned for viruses, I'm suspecting a DLL
Hell problem... will re-install the OS to Debian once I get a chance
to back up my files. It's due for an OS reinstall anyway... same OS
since, eh, 4-5 years ago...

If the answer is "once in a blue moon" or "I have an UPS, so effectively
never," write caching is worth enabling, IMO.


UPS... good point.

Michael
 
Q

qrk

Jan 1, 1970
0
Not very often, but occasionally my Win2k system hangs, especially
after running MS Office. Scanned for viruses, I'm suspecting a DLL
Hell problem... will re-install the OS to Debian once I get a chance
to back up my files. It's due for an OS reinstall anyway... same OS
since, eh, 4-5 years ago...




UPS... good point.

Michael

Cache is good unless you don't mind slowness. Use a UPS if you have
power mains problems. Sounds like you have a hardware problem (junk
memory is usually the cause) or your OS is acting up. Most of my Win2k
systems are stable. If you have multiple memory sticks, try remove one
and see what happens. If it still hangs, swap memory sticks and see
what happens.
 
F

Frithiof Jensen

Jan 1, 1970
0
Thoughts, anyone?

Personally I'd rather have a slower, more reliable drive than have a
fast drive that needs frequent data restores...

Michael

I use a LapDog so it's got an UPS (sort-off anyway). Should be Ok if one
also blocks Acrobat from showing within web browser because it will leave a
process behind blocking shutdown / hibernate so shutdown happens when the
battery is flat!!
 
A

Anssi Saari

Jan 1, 1970
0
Frithiof Jensen said:
I use a LapDog so it's got an UPS (sort-off anyway). Should be Ok if
one also blocks Acrobat from showing within web browser because it
will leave a process behind blocking shutdown / hibernate so shutdown
happens when the battery is flat!!

Yeah, that plugin has always had problems it seems. I stopped using it
simply because full acrobat has so much better user interface anyway.
 
J

Jan Panteltje

Jan 1, 1970
0
I would *NOT* ReiserFS with a bargepole with prince phillips attached to the
end of it!!! ReiserFS is a known corrupter of disks and loser of data. JFS
or even Ext3 are much more stable.

Well, that is a completely wrong statement.
I have been using Reiserfs from its beginning, the early advantage
was that you did not have to wait ages for the 'file system check' of ext2.
I have had several corrupted ext2 systems, but never, and I mean NEVER a corrupted
reiserfs.
I have a small ext2 partition on this machine that the system boots from (a few MB only),
it holds the kernel image, immediately after that the root filesystem is mounted as reiserfs.
grml: ~ # mount
rootfs on / type rootfs (rw)
/dev/root on / type reiserfs (rw)
proc on /proc type proc (rw)
sysfs on /sys type sysfs (rw)
/dev/root on /dev/.static/dev type reiserfs (rw)
tmpfs on /dev type tmpfs (rw)
/dev/pts on /dev/pts type devpts (rw)
tmpfs on /dev/shm type tmpfs (rw)
/dev/hdd1 on /mnt/hdd1 type ext2 (rw)
/dev/hdd4 on /mnt/hdd4 type reiserfs (rw)

hdd4 is also reiserfs, it is huge, holds backups and a lot of huge video files (all GB size files).
hdd1 is ext2 just for old times sake, it holds security camera related video files
that get updated automatically, not considered critical to the system.

You will love reiser if a power failure occurs, and it is up again in seconds,
while ext2 will go into a self check for . . . m i n u t e s . . . .

Juste because Reiser killed his wife does not make his filesystem bad :)
After all Bush killed a million Iraqis, that does not make US chips bad.

So you are talking bull, or are using reiserfs the wrong way, or need to buy a clue,
or whatever.
 
T

Tim Williams

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jan Panteltje said:
Well, that is a completely wrong statement.
I have been using Reiserfs from its beginning, ...

Ah, and a single case (yours) completely invalidates his statement? Hell,
even I know someone who's had corruption with that FS.

Tim
 
J

Jan Panteltje

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ah, and a single case (yours) completely invalidates his statement? Hell,
even I know someone who's had corruption with that FS.

Tim

If you knew what I do to PCs with file systems, yes, then my case is proof :)
The issue that may have confused many, is that, especially with the old version
(IIRC) of reiserfs, it was not suited to boot from it.
This was well known.
That is why my system boots from ext2, and then mounts reiserfs as root file system.
Many these days just use some distribution of Linux, and, not knowing history
and having no real experience, maybe select the wrongs things at the wrong time.
I am sure if you had to drive a formula1 when you are used to a beetle,
it could get you in problems too.

'I know somebody' and 'I have read somewhere' means very little (especially the last).
I have heard from somebody who claims he is from mars.
True.
Is he from mars?
I do not think so.

There is politics (as usual) involved too.
Reiserfs was not excepted into the kernel, although, IN MY VIEW it was better
then anything else at that time.
This, let's say, 'political friction' (and I do not blame it on anyone,
I got in a big fight in five minutes when posting something to a kernel list
myself) EGO, may have been the reason you could not boot from a reiser partition,
or have something to do with it.
Politics and technology do not always mix very well, and if they do the result may look weird.

If I EVER had a problem with reiserfs I would have tried ext3, others.
But now, as I have zero problems in 10 years, moving to an other file system only carries
risk.

Some times I just flip the power switch on the server... the journaling reiserfs
is back up almost immediately (10 seconds?) when I power up again.
Never lost a file.
Now try it with your pet file system on your pet OS, a couple of hundred times,
then report back here.
:)
 
J

JosephKK

Jan 1, 1970
0
Well, that is a completely wrong statement.
I have been using Reiserfs from its beginning, the early advantage
was that you did not have to wait ages for the 'file system check' of ext2.
I have had several corrupted ext2 systems, but never, and I mean NEVER a corrupted
reiserfs.

That seems nice, i have had the complete opposite experience.
Corrupted file systems at install time, repeatedly going corrupt with
no visible reason. Switched to Ext3 on the same machine and nary an
issue. Both Suse and Red Hat.
 
J

JosephKK

Jan 1, 1970
0
If you knew what I do to PCs with file systems, yes, then my case is proof :)
The issue that may have confused many, is that, especially with the old version
(IIRC) of reiserfs, it was not suited to boot from it.
This was well known.
That is why my system boots from ext2, and then mounts reiserfs as root file system.
Many these days just use some distribution of Linux, and, not knowing history
and having no real experience, maybe select the wrongs things at the wrong time.
I am sure if you had to drive a formula1 when you are used to a beetle,
it could get you in problems too.

'I know somebody' and 'I have read somewhere' means very little (especially the last).
I have heard from somebody who claims he is from mars.
True.
Is he from mars?
I do not think so.

There is politics (as usual) involved too.
Reiserfs was not excepted into the kernel, although, IN MY VIEW it was better
then anything else at that time.
This, let's say, 'political friction' (and I do not blame it on anyone,
I got in a big fight in five minutes when posting something to a kernel list
myself) EGO, may have been the reason you could not boot from a reiser partition,
or have something to do with it.
Politics and technology do not always mix very well, and if they do the result may look weird.

If I EVER had a problem with reiserfs I would have tried ext3, others.
But now, as I have zero problems in 10 years, moving to an other file system only carries
risk.

Some times I just flip the power switch on the server... the journaling reiserfs
is back up almost immediately (10 seconds?) when I power up again.
Never lost a file.
Now try it with your pet file system on your pet OS, a couple of hundred times,
then report back here.
:)

If you have had good experience with Reiser fine. I had a terrible
experience. I have had about as good experience with Ext3 as you have
with Reiser, it just came back up after power failures, no hassles, no
bother, no excess delay. Never was a boot problem. To each their
own.
 
J

Jan Panteltje

Jan 1, 1970
0
I've had no problems with reiserFS either. But I suggested it only as an
example of a journaling system because I know some people have string
feelings about it.

IMHO, its a waste of time arguing about file systems. This time is
better spent on the vi vs. emacs controversy. ;-)

Yes yes, emacs sucks, vi too, I use joe :)

And, in case that is not enough:
C rocks, C++ sucks.
 
J

JosephKK

Jan 1, 1970
0
Yes yes, emacs sucks, vi too, I use joe :)

And, in case that is not enough:
C rocks, C++ sucks.

I use other programming editors. Both emacs and vi suck. Don't like
c or c++. I would rather use any Pascal, basic, or other somewhat
more verbose language. C's encrypted library call names defeat it.
Just the same i must have written several thousand lines of c. I just
get more mileage out of languages that are not quite so oriented to
saving every byte of source code.
 
J

Jan Panteltje

Jan 1, 1970
0
I use other programming editors. Both emacs and vi suck.

I never could get used to emmacs keys... I know you can reconfigure.
Joe keys is a bit like wordstar.
I only need minimal functions in a text editor.
To save a selection and to load a file at cursor, tabs,
build in spell checker, search and search / replace, etc..
joe has it all.
I used 'boxer' in windows.

Don't like
c or c++. I would rather use any Pascal, basic, or other somewhat
more verbose language.

My pascal is a bit rusty these days, have not used it in ages.
C's encrypted library call names defeat it.

If you have Linux, and want to learn how to use libc,
then have a look at libc.info.
It has always been my guide, could not write anything complex without it.
Probably already on your system in
/usr/share/info/libc.info*
or else do a
locate libc.info
I just catted them all together to one big text file, and use joe to search
for things like functions, keywords.
libc.info has very good examples too, explains each and every library
function.
Just the same i must have written several thousand lines of c. I just
get more mileage out of languages that are not quite so oriented to
saving every byte of source code.

?
 
D

Dennis

Jan 1, 1970
0
Paul said:
I've had no problems with reiserFS either. But I suggested it only as an
example of a journaling system because I know some people have string
feelings about it.

IMHO, its a waste of time arguing about file systems. This time is
better spent on the vi vs. emacs controversy. ;-)
OK, remember that vi is the center of evil. Actually I try to avoid both
but if forced I'll use vi.
 
F

Frithiof Jensen

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jan Panteltje said:
Yes yes, emacs sucks, vi too, I use joe :)

And, in case that is not enough:
C rocks, C++ sucks.

TECO is good enuff for you lot!!
 
J

Jan Panteltje

Jan 1, 1970
0
TECO is good enuff for you lot!!

Same discussion in comp.os.linux.development.apps some years gao:
The winner was:
'Real man use cat.'
 
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