Digital TV: Why do we have to have it?

[Kevin Hendrikssen]

Since when is aus.tv a digital TV forum?

Try looking up the word "forum" in a dictionary.

 

[Phil Allison]

"AJ" = what a dickhead

Hmmmm where is it getting the signal from to tune that radio from?

** The ABC runs two high quality, digital radio signals along with its other
TV signals.

See: http://www.abc.net.au/dig/

As
far as I know radio stations are not digitised and re-broadcast on
digital are they in which case you will still have poor FM performance
won't you?

** Total gobbledegook !!

There is no circuitry in a STB that could improve the
signal.

** The music signal is **digitised** so does not suffer from the problems
that * analogue* FM does when arriving via a compromised antenna or in a
poor location.




............ Phil

 

[Oliver Twist]

Digital has MANY advantages over the existing system. I too was
skeptical until I got a STB to enable me to get my favourite shows in
widescreen.
The benefits I've found are:
- Absolutely perfect picture on every channel, all with my existing
crappy antenna. I could hardly pick up SBS at all before, now I get it
perfect, along with all the other channels. Fantastic. Not many people
get a perfect picture on every channel with analog. Sure there is a bit
of pixelisation now and then, but you have to be watching for it. Give
me a perfect picture and a bit of pixelisation over a snowy picture any
day.
- Widescreen. A HUGE benefit IMHO.
- A much sharper picture, and much easier to see and clearer so say
people I know with vision problems.
- The sound is slightly better, but this only a marginal benefit for
me.
- Online TV guides. Marginal benefit, but nice.
- High definition for those with the gear, although Hi-Def is still
ridiculously expensive for the small benefit. i.e. I can't watch any of
my DVDs in Hi-Def.

Dave

Goodie, same bucket of crap in High Definition. Yippee.

Digitial TV (as with radio) has everything to do with marketing and
interactivity. $$$$... there's no need for it except to sucker more people
into buying baubles and trinkets they don't need.

 

[Phil Allison]

"AJ" = an utter dickhead

How do you work that one out?

** It is blindingly obvious - you cretin.

( snip more drivel)

The broadcast quality that was sent before if received on a TV
with no problems would match the perfromance of the TV, so where would
you see an improvement.

** Only rarely ( until recent times) did broadcast analogue TV signals
match the performance of good TV sets - program quality varied over a wide
range and only live to air material originating in the same city as the
transmitter was reliably first class. The rest, derived from analogue tape
storage mediums and over long analogue links was highly variable. Nowadays,
digital storage and digital signals carried over those links has put an end
to quality loss there.

Modern TV sets all have AV inputs - most have S-Video and Component Video
inputs as well - so that full benefit of a DVD player's enhanced picture
quality can be had. Most STBs have S-Video and Component Video outputs too
( even the circa $100 ones) - since they are capable of DVD grade picture
quality or **better**.

If a DVD player or STB is connected via a TV set's RF input the pic quality
is unremarkable - though as good as most broadcast signals. When connected
via the composite input there is a large improvement, superior even to good
live ( eg daylight sport ) broadcast. When S-Video or Component inputs are
used there is another, very noticeable improvement on top of that.

The quality "bottleneck" in a standard TV set is the combined effects of the
tuner, IF amplifier and colour decoding circuitry - which are simply
bypassed by using S-Video or Component Video inputs.




............. Phil

 

[Who_tat_me]

Telecommunications,

How have they given that away?

electricity, gas, water,

Or those?

 

[Who_tat_me]

Try looking up the word "forum" in a dictionary.

Why? It's irrelevant to the question.

 

[Who_tat_me]

Never said it was. I can help SOME people that's all.

That's not what you said though:

"Even if you have a perfect picture on all or some channels, the digital
picture is so much clearer, so there is a benefit there alone, just ask
anyone with eyesight problems who have trouble seeing a normal analog
screen."

"just ask anyone" implies a lot more than some.

What part of SOME people don't you understand?

Since you've only just started using SOME whereas previously your claim that
digital would help ANYONE with eyesight problems I'd suggest that you might
do well to consult a dictionary.

 

[Kevin Hendrikssen]

Why? It's irrelevant to the question.

When is digital TV not TV?

 

[dmm]

Telecommunications, electricity, gas, water, and many others depending on
state/territory.

We were discussing the electromagnetic spectrum which is defined by international
agreements and run by the ACA, which is a body of the Federal Government.
Some frequencies are reserved for military, police, emergency services, telecoms providers,
television, radio, satellite, amateur, and other services. The service providers and users are
required to hold licenses to use those frequencies allocated to them, however there are
some exceptions.

Telecommunications? well that is now Telstra, and only a part of the overall telecoms structure
in Australia.

The delivery of electricity, gas and water are/were State concerns, not Federal.

 

[Who_tat_me]

When is digital TV not TV?

Not relevant. aus.tv is an top level newsgroup for the discussion of all
aspects of AUStralian TV. aus.tv.digital was created for the discussion of
aspects specifically relating to digital TV in Australia. aus.tv.digital is
a digital group. The implication of the other poster's question was that I
was posting to a specifically digital group. I am not.

 

[Phil Allison]

"David L. Jones"


** Questions for DLJ.


1. What does a STB's pic quality look like if the RF out is used to feed an
old TV ??

2. What does a STB's pic quality look like if the composite output is
connected to a VCR video input so the modulator feeds an old TV - so the
STB's signal can be recorded ??

3. What does a STB's pic quality look like if the RF out is connected to the
antenna input on a VCR, then proceeds via its tuner, IF strip, video
detector and RF modulator to an old TV ??

4. How does the above pic quality *compare* with that obtained by using
direct S-Video or Component Video linked to a modern, 68 cm TV ??


The arrangements 1, 2 & 3 are COMMON when STBs are used with old TVs.

The dudes you are debating are likely basing their comments on the pic
quality of 1, 2 or 3.




.............. Phil

 

[KLR]

How much it used to cost is entirely relevant. Your claim was that it only
costs $100 for an STB. The example that I used demonstrates that it costs a
lot more and the $100 that you quoted is only the case as of fairly
recently.


No it isn't. A lot of people have multiple TVs and multiple VCRs.


I's entirely relevant and your claim isn't actually true. With a TV and
associated VCR NOW you can record one program and watch another. If you buy
one STB you can not do that. You have to buy at least two STBs to maintain
the existing functionality. At least two because with an existing VCR you
can program the VCR to tune to any channel and record when you are not at
home. $100 STBs don't generally have an autotune function so if you really
want to retain the analogue functionality you need at least one STB for each
channel that you want recorded while you're away.


RUBBISH. Benefit is subsjective. Most people get an adequate picture. People
like me get a good picture that is more than just adequate. Most people
don't give a damn about EPGs and widescreen so the only real benefit of
digital is a possibly improved picture and most people don't see $100 or
more value in that.


But would they be satisfied with the vastly inferior picture on the non STB
device? If didgital is so great, how could they bear to go back to analogue?

The average VCR picture resolution quality these days - it wouldnt
really matter much for most if it came from the analog signal, it
would still come out relatively poor

 

[Chasing Kate]

Because there would be anarchy.

Anarchy??? Such as?

 

[AJ]

"AJ" = what a dickhead

Thought that was you considering the shit you've been writting in this
thread. The sad thing is you actually make some very good and valid
points about the benifits of digital TV, but **** it up with total
stupidity!

** The ABC runs two high quality, digital radio signals along with its other
TV signals.

See: http://www.abc.net.au/dig/

Ok so the ABC has digital stations that's cool and didn't know that.
In that case it makes perfect sense so there would be an improvement,
BUT the orginal poster who asked about radio wasn't specificaly
talking about ABC radio, it was just radio, so you would be missing
many stations, so the orginal posters comment as to why the hell would
you run your radio through the TV?

** Total gobbledegook !!




** The music signal is **digitised** so does not suffer from the problems
that * analogue* FM does when arriving via a compromised antenna or in a
poor location.

Again only for a channel that is sent digital. If its just acting as a
receiver for a FM radio channel then it does SFA

 

[David L. Jones]

Not relevant. aus.tv is an top level newsgroup for the discussion of all
aspects of AUStralian TV. aus.tv.digital was created for the discussion of
aspects specifically relating to digital TV in Australia. aus.tv.digital is
a digital group. The implication of the other poster's question was that I
was posting to a specifically digital group. I am not.

The link I posted shows aus.tv.digital only, so unless Google is lying
or not showing cross posted groups, you do post to aus.tv.digital
http://groups.google.com.au/groups?...s.tv.digital&as_uauthors=who_tat_me&lr=&hl=en

Dave

 

[David L. Jones]

"David L. Jones"


** Questions for DLJ.


1. What does a STB's pic quality look like if the RF out is used to feed an
old TV ??

Not that great I would suspect.
Never tried it myself, as even my crappy 20yo 2nd TV has an A/V input.

2. What does a STB's pic quality look like if the composite output is

connected to a VCR video input so the modulator feeds an old TV - so the
STB's signal can be recorded ??

As above.

3. What does a STB's pic quality look like if the RF out is connected to the
antenna input on a VCR, then proceeds via its tuner, IF strip, video

detector and RF modulator to an old TV ??

As above.

4. How does the above pic quality *compare* with that obtained by using
direct S-Video or Component Video linked to a modern, 68 cm TV ??


The arrangements 1, 2 & 3 are COMMON when STBs are used with old TVs.

The dudes you are debating are likely basing their comments on the pic
quality of 1, 2 or 3.
............. Phil

Yes, I suspect you are right Phil, except in the case of Who_tat_me who
doesn't even have an STB :->
Still ain't going to make any difference whether you get a $100 cheapie
or a $300 "good" unit though ;-)

Dave

 

[Barry OGrady]

How do you work that one out? In many cases what is sitting before the
transmitter, or in the case of digital what ever it is that digitises
the signal is pretty much the same stuff. Sure the stations may have
new camera's etc to cater more for digital TV (Widescreen and all that
good stuff that does make digital a good thing), but there ain't
nothing that is going to improve the analogue signal coming off the
stick. The broadcast quality that was sent before if received on a TV
with no problems would match the perfromance of the TV, so where would
you see an improvement.

Digital is a backward step in some cases since it sometimes pixilates.

Barry

 

[Phil Allison]

"AJ" = what a dickhead
Phil Allison


** Snip mindless abuse from a fuckwit.

Ok so the ABC has digital stations that's cool and didn't know that.
In that case it makes perfect sense so there would be an improvement,
BUT the orginal poster who asked about radio.....

** Bullshit - the poster ( "regn.pickford " ) who mentioned radio was
speaking of the digital radio channels you get from a STB - quote:

" Set top box's give you better pictures and a menu system that has a
programme guide built in with programme information to boot. They also tune
in radio stations, they're excellent value at just over $100 "

wasn't specificaly talking about ABC radio,

** Yes he was - dickhead.

it was just radio,

** He never mentioned other radio signals.

so you would be missing
many stations, so the original posters comment as to why the hell would
you run your radio through the TV?

** You are totally off with the fairies - fuckwit.

Again only for a channel that is sent digital. If its just acting as a
receiver for a FM radio channel then it does SFA

** STBs do NOT contain a FM broadcast receiver - dickhead.

They DO provide capacity for DIGITAL radio reception in the VHF and UHF
bands.

Hundreds of radio channels are possible.




.............. Phil

 

[Who_tat_me]

The link I posted shows aus.tv.digital only, so unless Google is lying
or not showing cross posted groups, you do post to aus.tv.digital

The link you posted earlier had nothing to do with me though. As for me
posting to aus.tv.digital, if you try reading through some of the posts
there, you will see exactly why I subscribed to that group. It is explained
in the very first post that I made to that thread, not that it has any
relevance to this thread. I gather that now your arguments are evaporating
you're becoming a little desperate so you're reaching for anything that
might help you dig your way out of a hole. Don't bother.

 

[Who_tat_me]

bject:
Re: Digital TV: Why do we have to have it?
Date:
27 Mar 2005 14:56:33 -0800
From:
"David L. Jones" <[email protected]>
Organization:
http://groups.google.com
Newsgroups:
aus.tv, aus.politics, aus.electronics
References:
1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 , 7 , 8 , 9 , 10 , 11 , 12 , 13 , 14 ,
15

Easily explained. We've been having a discussion about the benefits of
digital. His arguments have been shot down so now he's grabbing for anything
that he thinks might help him, even if it's totally off-topic and irrelevant
to the conversation. He's at the "Shit! Now I'll have to try discrediting
the other poster" stage.