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differential input amplifier

Discussion in 'Electronic Design' started by tiger66, Mar 18, 2007.

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  1. tiger66

    tiger66 Guest

    Hi All
    I am a bit confused with the differential input amplifier concept, I
    hope experts out there can give me some assistant.

    For the differential input amplifier to achieve the max dc gain, does
    the Vin- and Vin+'s dc voltage must be zero?
    I uses the netlist below for implementing my 2 stage amplifier, it
    seems that both Vin- and Vin+ equals to 0V gives me the highest dc
    gain (64dB)

    If Vin- and Vin+ all equals to zero, does that mean there is no input-
    offset voltage?

    Finally, I am just wondering, does the max and min output voltage of
    the 2 stage amplifier depend only on VDD and Vss values respectively?
    I simulated the .dc response and the plot shows that the max output
    voltage is 2.5V and the min is -2.5V which are VDD and Vss. So, do VDD
    and Vss control the output voltage or is it just a coincident?

    I would be really appreciate if someone could clarify my questions


    VDD 1 0 DC 2.5
    Vss 7 0 DC -2.5
    VbiasQ5 2 0 DC 1.5
    Mp5 8 2 1 1 p1 W=200u L=1.2u
    +AD=840p AS=840P PD=210u PS=210u
    Mp1 10 9 8 1 p1 W=200u L=1.2u
    +AD=840p AS=840P PD=210u PS=210u
    Mp2 12 11 8 1 p1 W=200u L=1.2u
    +AD=840p AS=840P PD=210u PS=210u
    Mn3 10 10 7 7 n1 W=100u L=1.2u
    +AD=420p AS=420P PD=110u PS=110u
    Mn4 12 10 7 7 n1 W=100u L=1.2u
    +AD=420p AS=420P PD=110u PS=110u
    Mp6 13 2 1 1 p1 W=200u L=1.2u
    +AD=840p AS=840P PD=210u PS=210u
    Mn7 13 12 7 7 n1 W=200u L=1.2u
    +AD=840p AS=840P PD=210u PS=210u
    CL 13 0 .5PF
    * simple compensation network
    *Cc 15 13 ?? pF
    *Rc 12 15 1
    VINL 9 0 dc 0
    VINH 11 0 dc 0 ac 1
    ..dc Vinh -2.5 2.5 .0001
    *.ac dec 20 1 1G
    *.TRAN 0.001m 20m
    ..TEMP 27.0
    * Microwind 0.6 micron foundry level 3 models
    *n-mos model
    ..MODEL N1 NMOS LEVEL=3 VTO=0.80 U0=600 TOX=15.0E-9
    +LD =0.010U THETA=0.200 GAMMA=0.700
    +PHI=0.700 KAPPA=0.010 VMAX=130.00K
    +CGSO=100.0p CGDO=100.0p
    +CGBO= 60.0p CJSW=240.0p
    *p-mos model
    ..MODEL P1 PMOS LEVEL=3 VTO=-0.80 U0=200 TOX=15.0E-9
    +LD =-0.050U THETA=0.200 GAMMA=0.450
    +PHI=0.700 KAPPA=0.040 VMAX=100.00K
    +CGSO=100.0p CGDO=100.0p
    +CGBO= 60.0p CJSW=240.0p
  2. D from BC

    D from BC Guest


    I'm sorry..I had to stop reading there..I was hurting myself... :)
    Anyways...I'm no expect but I'll give it a go...
    Ideal differential amplifiers work by doing Gain* (Signal A - Signal
    The gain (AC and DC) of a differential amplifier is determined by the
    components used and any feedback loops.
    The signals on the inputs are ideally not to affect the gain.
    Make a diff amp signals equal (within limits) and what remains is the
    offset voltage.. The offset voltage gets amplified too.
    D from BC
  3. tiger66

    tiger66 Guest

    So if I have both inputs equal to zero, should my offset voltage also
    equals to zero?

  4. Eeyore

    Eeyore Guest

    You have a misunderstanding of the concept.

    Offset voltage is in reality simply the mismatch of the Vbe of the 2 input
    devices. That's all.

  5. D from BC

    D from BC Guest

    The offset voltage can be nulled out so that 0 volts on each input
    yields 0volts out.
    Often this can be seen on op amp datasheets.
    Low offset diff amps are often desired.
    Spice models sometimes use Vos= 0.
    The offset voltage is due to mismatches inside the op amp.
    Vos is a concern when it's amplified so much that dynamic range
    suffers, there can be clipping and there's a coupling annoyance for
    those that don't like DC blocking capacitors.

    Read about offset current too.
    D from BC
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