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dialup issues

Discussion in 'Electronic Repair' started by klem kedidelhopper, Feb 8, 2013.

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  1. I have two pots lines in my house. One is business class and the other
    is residential. As far as I can tell the one difference between the
    two is that the phone company gets to charge me twice as much for the
    business line.

    A few years ago before we went to DSL we had dialup service here. On
    the business line I was never able to get any better than a 26K
    connection. I never really investigated this and with no audible
    aberrations on the line this was never a problem as we just used the
    dialup on the residential line instead. On that line we usually could
    get a 45K connection and sometimes even 50.

    I recently dropped the DSL service and will likely drop the
    residential service as well. We went back to dialup with the same
    provider. The business line speed problem noted years ago is still
    there. I've dialed up the telco's "quiet line" to listen to both lines
    off hook, (while we still have the residential line) and they both
    sound clean. I plan to go to the interface to look at this but we now
    have a big storm coming so for now the 26K will suffice. If plugging
    directly into the interface yields a good (45K) connection on the slow
    line then I realize that the problem is then in the premises and I'll
    have to troubleshoot that.

    My question is if the problem is in the premises wiring what could be
    the most likely cause of something like this? As I previously
    mentioned I can't "hear" any problem but of course that doesn't mean
    that one doesn't exist. Before I start dismantling my inside wiring it
    would be nice if I had a clue as to what I was looking for. The phone
    company by the way has been no help with this.

    If anyone has any ideas that they would share I would be extremely
    grateful. Lenny
     
  2. I've seen pairs in the same bundle, where most work just fine,
    So... inasmuch as a house's internal cabling usually has unused pairs -- would
    it be worth switching to another pair?
     
  3. Sofa Slug

    Sofa Slug Guest

    On 2/8/2013 9:22 AM, klem kedidelhopper wrote:
    FWIW, I had a problem with low DSL speed similar to yours. It turned out
    to be a tarnished/corroded RJ-11 wall plate jack. Once the wall plate
    was replaced, the problems disappeared.
     
  4. Klem-

    There should be a modular phone connector in the box where your phone
    line attaches to the house. You can isolate a problem to being inside
    or outside, by connecting your equipment to the outside jack, and seeing
    if the problem goes away.

    Fred
     
  5. mike

    mike Guest

    I had a speed problem back in the day.
    Called the number (in india) on the bill and was told the line was fine.
    But they'd gladly send someone out to tell me the same thing for a fee.
    I poked around and discovered the direct phone number to the district
    manager in my town. Problem was fixed in minutes. Somebody had the
    switch in the wrong position back at the CO.
     
  6. Well I guess that before tearing my house wiring apart I'll go to the
    demarc, (after this monster storm the Northeast is having is over) and
    see if the line to the CO without the premises wiring in parallel with
    it gets me a good connection. The best I can hope for is that it
    doesn't. Then I'll know my fight is with the telephone company. That
    will be interesting to see what kind of shit they'll give me at that
    point as they also provide dialup service, but at 4 times the cost of
    my provider.. Lenny
     
  7. Guest

    If you can get into the "phone company only" side of the demarc, do so.
    It should have a surge protector for each line, with three terminals:
    two for the line and one for ground. Sometimes these go wrong. You can
    temporarily disconnect the line from the surge protector (on a nice
    sunny day) and see if that improves things. (It may help to have a
    couple of sets of 6-32 screw, nut, and washer to make this connection.)
    Since you have two lines, you could also swap the protectors to see if
    there is a change. Don't run without the surge protector forever; just
    long enough to see if there is a change. Also, there is 48 VDC across
    each line and up to 90 VAC if it rings, so be careful. You can also
    check for water, flora, and fauna in there. When you are done,
    carefully put it back together the way it was.

    It is also worth applying an eyeball to the pedestal (underground cable)
    or splice cover (overhead) where your wire joins the cable in the
    neighborhood, to look for missing/damaged covers, signs of trees or
    critters or water getting in, etc. These are not really your baby to
    fix but you can point them out to the lineman.

    Matt Roberds
     
  8. Guest

    looks like you can't tell anything now with the connections
    concealed. Progress???????
     
  9. micky

    micky Guest

    What's the quiet line? Does every phone company have this? Does
    Verizon?
    I have little experience and almost no idea if this relates to you,
    but I have a story. And it's about DSL, not even dial-up. So for
    that reason too, maybe it has no application to you. But it's a good
    story.

    I signed up for that 5 years ago, and using some webpage to measure my
    speed, was never getting nearly as fast as I should Also, I have an
    indoor wiring problem that comes and goes, and so I had run a wire
    from the outside interface, up the front of the house and straight to
    a simple splitter, DSL and telephone.

    This meant I could only close the window and storm window maybe 95%.
    I was using the kind of 4 conductor wire used to connect phones to the
    wall.

    To close the window 100%, I bought special, thin, flat phone wire,
    from the phone section of Home Depot, meant for places like this,
    between windows and the window frame. .

    A few ways later, my phone continued to work, and the web radio
    worked, but newsgroups, email, and web did not. I was stumped, and
    the Verizon DSL guy come over. He said there is mor e than one level
    of the phone line not working, and of DSL not working.. So the fact
    that the phone and the web radio worked, didn't mean DSL was fully
    working. He said the wire going out the window was too thin. (Or
    maybe it had to do with too thin considering my aluminmum window
    frames (both surrounding the glass and lining the window opening.

    So now, for the last year, I use the kind of 4-conductor phone wire
    that people put inside walls, stiffer and thicker,, and my download
    speed has tripled and stayed tripled. .

    (I'm still not using the thickest or stiffest wire used for that, but
    I'm at the speed they promised me, so I suppose going to even thicker
    wire won't help;)

    I used other methods to keep the cold air from coming in the window
    around the wire.
     
  10. That's because DSL is "adaptive". The devices at each end are "smart" and
    try the maximum speed they can. If that fails, or they get too many errors,
    they try a lower speed until they can connect.

    Analog modems do that too.

    I can connect to the web browser interface of my DSL routers (which include
    "modems") and see the exact speed the line is capable of, the speed it is
    running at and the error rates. I can even run a BER (bit error rate) test
    without disturbing the line.

    In my case it's not very useful, as the DSL portion of my phone service
    runs few hundred meters. It goes to a box somewhere near my home which
    converts the DSL and analog voice to fiber optics.

    That device is even smarter than you would expect, it opens its own
    trouble tickets with the phone company and sends me SMSs when it does
    or they are resolved.

    Geoff.
     
  11. Quiet line numbers are often like ANI numbers (for identifying the CO
    line), which are "top secret" within the phone company. The phone
    company will never give them to you, but a cooperative lineman might
    after you've established a rap or with him on a job. Some of the older
    local exchanges here in New England worked with 200-2222222. Lenny
     
  12. josephkk

    josephkk Guest

    Please provide any number that you know. I am willing to bet that it is
    industry standard.

    ?-)
     
  13. josephkk

    josephkk Guest

    How about that. Many 555-#### numbers are various diagnostic systems.

    ?-)
     
  14. micky

    micky Guest

    I hate when they use a 555 number in a movie. For gosh sakes, how
    stupid would someone have to be to think the number they give in a
    movie is really the number of someone like the character in the movie?
    Calling those numbers should seem like calling random numbers. **

    I also hate it when they remove t he rear-view mirrors of movie cars.
    I've seen a few movies where they leave the rear view mirror and it
    looks a lot better. It doesn't distract from the actors. It's a
    much bigger distraction when it's not there.


    On Law & Order, they always give the address of tte place they are
    going. Often it's in the East River or Hudson River, but it still
    indicates teh area they have in mind. Other times it would be in a
    real block, residential even, but I assume the number they give is
    between two real addresses. I have a good friend at W. 85th and
    Columbus, and according to Law & Order, a lot goes on within a block
    of her apartment.
     
  15. micky

    micky Guest

    In grammar school, the phone guy told me the number to get it to ring
    back. 1197 and 1191, but they don't work now where I live now.
    Didnt' when I checked 30 years ago. They are very useful if one is
    sick in bed and wants to call his mother. who is downstairs.
     
  16. Leif Neland

    Leif Neland Guest

    Geoffrey S. Mendelson forklarede:
    I assume you mean the box down the road is alerting, not your
    individual dsl boxes in the homes.

    the box down the road is monitored from the central office,
    where it is decided when an anomaly is turned into a ticket, and when
    it is decided the problem is fixed, the sms'es are sent.

    I don't think the box down the corner has any "free will" to generate
    sms'es.

    Of cause I could be wrong...

    Leif
     
  17. Leif Neland

    Leif Neland Guest

    Den 17/02/2013, skrev micky:
    You would be amazed about the stupidity of people.

    And if Dark Knight Rises grossed 1.1billion, average $10 per ticket,
    and one in a million will call a number in a movie, that gives 1000
    calls.

    Would you like to get 1000 calls asking for Batman?
     
  18. Yes, BUT. The router I have is roughly equivalent to a 2005
    computer in terms of processor capability, RAM, offline storage
    (ROM), IO (one USB port, 4 ethernet ports, one VDSL modem, one 802.11n
    multichannel access point).

    It can run three virtual internet sessions for tunneling, two for me,
    one for a separate public network.

    It can provide a disk server or a print server via the USB.

    I expect it can't send SMSs because it has no cellular connection, but it
    may well be able to use a channel on the DSL line private to the phone
    company for sending trouble tickets, etc.
    I don't know. My asterisk system has a cellular modem used as a phone
    so I can receive and make calls and SMSs over the cellular network.
    It can send me SMS's on its own.

    Or to be more accurate, it COULD if I had anything programmed to triger
    them. What I do have is set of PERL programs that run on a different
    computer and when I run them, ssh into the asterisk system to send SMSs.

    The other way, the asterisk system receives the SMS and emails it to me.

    Note that some routers have USB ports programmed to connect to the cellular
    network with modem sticks. I also have one of those used for emergency
    backup.


    I assume you could run DD-WRT on them and a stripped down Asterisk system
    which could send SMS's based upon pre-programmed conditions (but not
    free will, as in "I'm lonely. Please log into me".

    Geoff.
     
  19. Tommy Two Tone was the group, and that was the 80's song "8675309".
    People all over the country had to get their numbers changed because
    of that song.

    Well I finally dug a path through the snow out to the interface and
    plugged my laptop directly into into it using a 6 foot cable and guess
    what? A 26.4K connection! So I called the phone company to complain,
    and (it was Saturday) but the rep told me that she would run it by the
    technician on Tuesday and get back to me, disturbingly adding that she
    "wasn't sure if they could do anything about it". Then she further
    disturbingly added the usual cover their asses statement that if it is
    determined that there was no problem with the telephone company's
    lines, "a service charge would apply".

    Well this really pissed me off, and I told her that as far as I know
    if I plugged into their interface and duplicated my problem then the
    trouble is NOT premises related, it is THEIR's and therefore I cannot
    be charged for a service call which they might make of their own
    volition or of my request. Did I imagine that or is that a fact? I
    added that if they sent a tech over I could easily demonstrate at the
    interface that I can get a 45K connection on one line and only a 26.4K
    connection on the other. I would take that service charge if I ever
    got one to the PUC if I had to

    What actually are my rights here? This is a business line. Is the
    phone company "required" to provide me with a line that I can get full
    dial up bandwidth on? Can I legally push this issue with them? Or can
    they really turn around and say "sorry Charlie but we're providing you
    with voice communications and we can't do anything about your dialup
    speed issue. Lenny
     
  20. We're in New Hampshire. I don't know what the PUC rules are here
    either except that it seems like the utilities, telephone as well as
    electric have always seemed to have the PUC in their pockets. I think
    that I might have an idea as to how to approach this problem though.
    Several months ago I complained to the phone company about a strange
    random "Boing Boing" sound on my lines that would come and go during a
    conversation with someone. The noise was unpredictable, would usually
    last about a minute, was almost deafening at times and could only be
    heard by me and never by the person on the other end of the line. They
    never could verify my complaint, I'm certain that they never fixed it
    and it hasn't happened for awhile now. Perhaps I should remind them of
    this "continuing" problem that I've been living with that has
    apparently affected my dialup speed as well. Lenny.
     
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