Dead Compact Fluorescent Examination

[Richard The Dreaded Libertarian]

You only had one ?


You realised you're not supposed to toss it in the garbage ?

I had only one screwbase CFL in the kitchen..

What?? I can't trash my CFL!
Where's that Philips 1-800 number...They can come over and pick up
their toxic waste.
What am I going to do? Drive my car and pollute the air so I can
deliver my single CFL to a disposal plant.[/QUOTE]

If you want to give them apoplexy, just run it down the garbage
disposal. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

 

[D from BC]

It's contact bounce. With an incandescent, you just get this inrush
current with a series resistor. With that damn switching supply,
the spikes that happen during contact bounce are enough to strike
an arc, albeit not a very big one.

And yes, it has to be bad for the switch, but I'd think a snubber
could fix it. Picking the right component values for the snubber
is, as usual, left as an exercise for the student. ;-)

Hope This Helps!
Rich

Thats what I was thinking..
Every little "psst" noise means a little bit of contact metal is
vaporized and oxidized.
If I had the time...I'd take apart the wall switch and check out how
the contacts mate and see how much contact damage exists.
But, I'm not too concerned.. Wall switches are cheap.
Plus...
Phil says the switch will be ok.
Also...I'm sure the CFL designers have thought about this.
D from BC

 

[Eeyore]

The greatest insanity is the EU "first" rule "to control pollution"
included a restriction on MERCURY, and this ban in incandescent lamps

No such thing.

Get your facts right first please.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

Yeah...but what other alternatives are there?

I've had *ZERO* problems with quality name branded CFLs. I can currently buy
them (Philips) in 11W and 18W for the equivalent of $0.99 !

I've yet to see LED bulbs at the hardware store with 60W halogen light
intensity.

There are none, at least at prices you could afford.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

"Energy Saving Bulb" brand
Item# UB204
Model EDXO-18/19
20 watts
doesn't even say where it was made.

3 out of 4 failed at turn-on within a dozen times turning on,
1 must be mfgr defect because it has worked for at least a year.

Well..... if you insist on buying CRAP !

Cracked one open without opening up my thumb at the same time.
6 small caps, one big electrolytic
6 diodes
4 resistors
2 transistors
1 larger transformer, one ferrite bead transformer, one choke
no visibly incinerated components

Haven't started trying to diagnose and repair it yet.
Have had other brands where one worked for years and the
rest died at turn-on within a dozen times turning on.

Have you considered buying a Philips or Osram CFL ?

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

Interesting to see those cylindrical SMT resistors in use. The ones
that roll off the PCB if not soldered.

They have better pulse handling capability.

Graham

 

[Terran Melconian]

There are none, at least at prices you could afford.

I know Color Kinetics is making them, but they're not exactly at the
hardware store level. Not really economical for home use yet.

 

[Robert Baer]

Thats what I was thinking..
Every little "psst" noise means a little bit of contact metal is
vaporized and oxidized.
If I had the time...I'd take apart the wall switch and check out how
the contacts mate and see how much contact damage exists.
But, I'm not too concerned.. Wall switches are cheap.
Plus...
Phil says the switch will be ok.
Also...I'm sure the CFL designers have thought about this.
D from BC

Of course the CFL makers thought of that...they make the light
swithces also...

 

[Robert Baer]

Robert Baer wrote:




No such thing.

Get your facts right first please.

Graham

Look it up..cadmium, mercury, lead are some of the banned items.

 

[Eeyore]

Look it up..cadmium, mercury, lead are some of the banned items.

They are not *banned*. What do you think car batteries use for example ? They
are allowed where no adequate replacement exists.

There is absolutely no ban here on incandescent light bulbs either. Where on
earth do you get your ideas from ? Marvel Comic ?

Graham

 

[Rich Grise]

They are not *banned*. What do you think car batteries use for example ? They
are allowed where no adequate replacement exists.

There is absolutely no ban here on incandescent light bulbs either. Where on
earth do you get your ideas from ? Marvel Comic ?

Almost! ;-) California, in fact:
This link will probably wrap, so you'll have to reconstitute it in your
browser's address window:
http://today.reuters.com/news/artic...ERGY-CALIFORNIA-LIGHTBULBS.xml&src=rss&rpc=22

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Eeyore]

Almost! ;-) California, in fact:
This link will probably wrap, so you'll have to reconstitute it in your
browser's address window:
http://today.reuters.com/news/artic...ERGY-CALIFORNIA-LIGHTBULBS.xml&src=rss&rpc=22

It's daft. Incandescent bulbs have entirely valid uses. The best way to encourage use of CFLs would be to tax incandescents @ 400% or so, not drive them underground.

Graham

 

[[email protected]]

I've had *ZERO* problems with quality name branded CFLs. I can currently buy
them (Philips) in 11W and 18W for the equivalent of $0.99 !


There are none, at least at prices you could afford.

Graham

I have a collection of burnt out CFLs waiting for suitable e-waste
collection. The ones in the master bath made it about 18 months. I've
gone back to light bulbs again.

It is well known that the lifetime of fluorescent lights is related to
how often they are turned on and off. I worked in a old office
building where there were no light switches for the fluorescent lights
in order to maximize the life of the bulbs.

I have one FL that lasted for years. It was a very low wattage one I
left on over the sink. After Kenny Boy Lay screwed California, I
started to switch it on and off and yeah, it croaked.

Somewhat on subject, my halogen torchieres are now object d'art at
300W a pop in the post Enron era.

 

[Eeyore]

It is well known that the lifetime of fluorescent lights is related to
how often they are turned on and off. I worked in a old office
building where there were no light switches for the fluorescent lights
in order to maximize the life of the bulbs.

With old-fashioned electro-mechanical 'starters' no doubt.

Electronic CFLs simply don't have such a problem.

I have one FL that lasted for years. It was a very low wattage one I
left on over the sink. After Kenny Boy Lay screwed California, I
started to switch it on and off and yeah, it croaked.

Mine survive just fine being switched on and off. They may *exceed* their stated
life when rarely cycled perhaps.

Have you used any good quality CFLs like Philips or Osram ?

Graham

 

[D from BC]

I have a collection of burnt out CFLs waiting for suitable e-waste
collection. The ones in the master bath made it about 18 months. I've
gone back to light bulbs again.

It is well known that the lifetime of fluorescent lights is related to
how often they are turned on and off. I worked in a old office
building where there were no light switches for the fluorescent lights
in order to maximize the life of the bulbs.

I have one FL that lasted for years. It was a very low wattage one I
left on over the sink. After Kenny Boy Lay screwed California, I
started to switch it on and off and yeah, it croaked.

Somewhat on subject, my halogen torchieres are now object d'art at
300W a pop in the post Enron era.

IIRC incandescents are also "tortured" by (on/off)ing. Filament
thermal differential stress?
Anyways..
Long ago ..maybe in a magazine..I saw a zero crossing switching
project for incandescents.. The idea is that the beginning the power
sine wave was a soft enough start to prevent thermal shock to the
filament.. So no "pop" if someone flicks the switch right on the
voltage peak.
I've noticed many times that incandescents blow upon turn on..

Could such a circuit help extend the life of a CFL too?
If so..why isn't this cct built into the CFL...
D from BC

 

[Eeyore]

Long ago ..maybe in a magazine..I saw a zero crossing switching
project for incandescents.. The idea is that the beginning the power
sine wave was a soft enough start to prevent thermal shock to the
filament.. So no "pop" if someone flicks the switch right on the
voltage peak.
I've noticed many times that incandescents blow upon turn on..

The simplest answer is to use an NTC thermistor in series.

Could such a circuit help extend the life of a CFL too?
If so..why isn't this cct built into the CFL...

Cost of course.

Graham

 

[Phil Allison]

"Eeysore ASD fucked criminal IDIOT "

With old-fashioned electro-mechanical 'starters' no doubt.

Electronic CFLs simply don't have such a problem.

** Nonsense.

Makers specify the max number of on/off cycles to achieve rated life.

Gets included in the various quality standards too.



........ Phil

 

[D from BC]

The simplest answer is to use an NTC thermistor in series.



Cost of course.

Graham

Interesting...
Perhaps the NTC could go in the wall switch electrical box or the
ceiling electrical box..
If it was put in the CFL base..it might just be another heat source
shortening the electrolytic lifetimes..
(IIRC NTC's applied like this stabilize at around 100C.)
D from BC

 

[Robert Baer]

Robert Baer wrote:




They are not *banned*. What do you think car batteries use for example ? They
are allowed where no adequate replacement exists.

There is absolutely no ban here on incandescent light bulbs either. Where on
earth do you get your ideas from ? Marvel Comic ?

Graham

I understand that Australia is doing that insanity..
Lead in car batteries is one of the few exceptions.

 

[Robert Baer]

Rich Grise wrote:




It's daft. Incandescent bulbs have entirely valid uses. The best way to encourage use of CFLs would be to tax incandescents @ 400% or so, not drive them underground.

Graham

The problem is, that CFLs take *more* total energy (a pixie does not
magik them up) !plus! they use (shhh... do not tell anyone) mercury, a
known and deadly poison.
Some people have theeir backside and head interchanged.