Data sheet spelunking and the HORROR of data book burning.

[Dan Charette]

Hey Everyone!

I thought I'd post a quick little dity regarding the importance of
digging deep into websites and data sheet searching. Also, a plea to
anyone thinking of tossing an older looking, tattered paged hard
printed copy of a manufacturer's data book.

I just spent about four hours on Analog Devices website. It all
started from trying to track down an application note I had read
roughly 10 years ago. I knew the note existed, and so I started
looking and poking around. Before I new it, I was deep into the rusty
inards of a long forgotten, cobweb laden tunnel of some very useful
analog stuff. The floors were damp and musty, the air stale and
undisturbed for many years it seemed. I proceeded on and discovered
some nuggets of glittering gold there hidden beneath the muck. As the
years go by and I'm sure everyone can attest to this, databooks and
application notes end up on endangered species lists and eventually
are burned or incinerated as per Bradbury's tale. It seems that much
of the really good recipes for great analog circuit design don't ever
seem to get scanned into PDF files. Instead, they're thrown out by
new green engineers just graduating their respective college programs
and moving into the offices once held by legends who have since
retired from the electronic art community. And so, I plead with
everyone out there, keep those data books and cherish them. When you
do tutor new prospects coming fresh out of school, teach them the
importance of these classic pieces of literature that we all have
grown to cherish and rely on. And for all that is holy in the design
world, don't throw these things out! Post them on Ebay or give them
to the local university lab or something if you really are looking to
spring clean up your lab. I fear that if we don't leave some of this
valuable material behind, many of the future designers will be using
computer program circuit design 'wizards' to design their filters and
amplifiers and won't have a clue as to how to really use that muscle
sitting atop their shoulders. Manual schematic drawing will become
some kind of ancient hieroglyph that will end up on a look alike
Rosetta stone with lyrics from a Nirvana song in Japanese and a recipe
for spicy style borscht in a chicken scratch sketch made by a Cajun
swamp doctor.

By the way... AD's website is packed with really great info all over
the place if you are willing to dig. I'm talking digging way beyond
just links on the main page and links within the search results
windows. Links on old published datasheets are sometimes still
active, but there aren't links that show up through their search
engines. One could almost get a college level engineering degree just
by ingesting the information there. Linear Tech's site is packed as
well not to mention National's, Maxim's, and TI's too.

Preserve the knowledge folks! It's such a vital fingerprint that we
as designer's have.


Dan Charette {dan_at_thesonicfrogFUZZ-dot-com}
Remove the "FUZZ" and replace the underscores and
such from my e-mail address to contact me.

"I may not always be right, but I'm never wrong."

 

[Bob Stephens]

Hey Everyone!

I thought I'd post a quick little dity regarding the importance of
digging deep into websites and data sheet searching. Also, a plea to
anyone thinking of tossing an older looking, tattered paged hard
printed copy of a manufacturer's data book.

I just spent about four hours on Analog Devices website. It all
started from trying to track down an application note I had read
roughly 10 years ago. I knew the note existed, and so I started
looking and poking around. Before I new it, I was deep into the rusty
inards of a long forgotten, cobweb laden tunnel of some very useful
analog stuff. The floors were damp and musty, the air stale and
undisturbed for many years it seemed. I proceeded on and discovered
some nuggets of glittering gold there hidden beneath the muck. As the
years go by and I'm sure everyone can attest to this, databooks and
application notes end up on endangered species lists and eventually
are burned or incinerated as per Bradbury's tale. It seems that much
of the really good recipes for great analog circuit design don't ever
seem to get scanned into PDF files. Instead, they're thrown out by
new green engineers just graduating their respective college programs
and moving into the offices once held by legends who have since
retired from the electronic art community. And so, I plead with
everyone out there, keep those data books and cherish them. When you
do tutor new prospects coming fresh out of school, teach them the
importance of these classic pieces of literature that we all have
grown to cherish and rely on. And for all that is holy in the design
world, don't throw these things out! Post them on Ebay or give them
to the local university lab or something if you really are looking to
spring clean up your lab. I fear that if we don't leave some of this
valuable material behind, many of the future designers will be using
computer program circuit design 'wizards' to design their filters and
amplifiers and won't have a clue as to how to really use that muscle
sitting atop their shoulders. Manual schematic drawing will become
some kind of ancient hieroglyph that will end up on a look alike
Rosetta stone with lyrics from a Nirvana song in Japanese and a recipe
for spicy style borscht in a chicken scratch sketch made by a Cajun
swamp doctor.

By the way... AD's website is packed with really great info all over
the place if you are willing to dig. I'm talking digging way beyond
just links on the main page and links within the search results
windows. Links on old published datasheets are sometimes still
active, but there aren't links that show up through their search
engines. One could almost get a college level engineering degree just
by ingesting the information there. Linear Tech's site is packed as
well not to mention National's, Maxim's, and TI's too.

Preserve the knowledge folks! It's such a vital fingerprint that we
as designer's have.


Dan Charette {dan_at_thesonicfrogFUZZ-dot-com}
Remove the "FUZZ" and replace the underscores and
such from my e-mail address to contact me.

"I may not always be right, but I'm never wrong."

Well, I hate to tell you, but I went down to my office on Saturday and
filled a dumpster with 30 years worth of data books, vendor catalogs and
old software manuals. It was cathartic, it felt great! And I'd do it again!
Bwahahahaha! I'm closing down that office after 13 years, and was faced
with moving and storing these tons of paper for a couple of more decades,
when I realized that I'd survived just fine without even glancing at these
dusty old tomes for years. Wheeee!


Bob

 

[Joerg]

Hi Dan,

Nicely written story. There is another reason to keep data books. When the
power goes off all those great pdf links on the web will be gone until
electricity comes back. Been there a few times because I live in
California. However, with a fine point pencil, some vellum and a stack of
transistor data books life went on without a hitch. Cooking had to be done
on the Weber, all of it including the rice, veggies, gravy, bread, but
that actually was a real treat. Two pounds of charcoal is all it took.
Topped off with a nice glass of Merlot since the beer had gotten warm.

One can still do schematic entry but only if some backup power is there.
We have a small gel cell battery with inverter that can run a laptop and
small light for many hours.

I think we tend to rely too much on technology at times. It's not just
power, we also had the main ISP server go down quite a bit. Another time a
car went off the road, hitting a pole and Internet was down until the next
day. Thank God the driver survived, that's all that should really matter.

Regards, Joerg

 

[Greg Neff]

On Mon, 03 May 2004 15:10:38 GMT, Bob Stephens

(snip)

Well, I hate to tell you, but I went down to my office on Saturday and
filled a dumpster with 30 years worth of data books, vendor catalogs and
old software manuals. It was cathartic, it felt great! And I'd do it again!
Bwahahahaha! I'm closing down that office after 13 years, and was faced
with moving and storing these tons of paper for a couple of more decades,
when I realized that I'd survived just fine without even glancing at these
dusty old tomes for years. Wheeee!


Bob

Yes, we have tossed many of our old paper data books as well. We
needed the space. That does not mean that we don't value data sheets,
or that we recklessly discard them. Now we treat data sheets like
software source files. Every component added into our inventory
control system has a linked PDF data sheet that is stored on the
server under document control. This is how we guarantee that every
component we use has a data sheet that anyone in the company can
easily read, and that everyone is reading the correct version of the
document.


================================

Greg Neff
VP Engineering
*Microsym* Computers Inc.
[email protected]

 

[Dan Charette]

Joerg...

Wish I coulda been there for the omni Barbeque. That's the mark of a
true engineer... one that can just go with the flow and deal with what
ever turd should happen to fall on their plate that particular rainy
day.
You do bring up an interesting point about power failures. I've
always loved pencils from the standpoint of they don't require all
that much to make them work. You simply hold it in your hand between
your fingers, or your toes, perhaps a nostril if you're really
adventurous, and you just give it a push on your favorite surface,
which by popular opinion here seems to be vellum. Anyway, it's like
any musical instrument... what you put into it via your own knoggin,
is what comes out.
I took a tour of the factory where Vise Grip pliers are manufactured
and it was really quite an eye opener in a lot of ways. I had a
really nice tour guide that took myself and a colleague on a very
personalized tour for no other reason than we were interested in
seeing how these tools are made.
From start to finish, everything on one of those tools is made under
one roof with the exception of the tiny pop rivets that hold the
sliding lever in the handle in place as well as the jaws to the
handles. The guide took us through each stage. From the initial
protoype and die making shop, on through the forging and welding
section where the pieces are formed, and then to final assembly and
QC. All of the stages of the operation had a person to handle that
specific task. Each tool that comes off the line goes through the
hands of about 40 people. Now, at the end of the tour, the guide took
us to a corner of the factory where an ornate line of equipment was
set up. It was clearly an automated line with maybe 2 people running
it. I posed the obvious question, which is faster and the more
efficient of the two, the manual line or the automated line. His
answer was pretty interesting. He said, the automated line could of
course run 24/7 and doesn't want any coffee/lunch breaks nor is it
unionized and demanding a better dental program. He said, the reason
that most of the plant is dedicated to the manual line and not
automated is because the manual line has a life to it. A few years
prior, there was a huge flood that took out power and shut the plant
down for several days. Because of the down time, they were way behind
schedule on production. The automated line took a while to get back
into operation, but the manual line was back up and running as soon as
everyone sat down and started work. And, the manual line was able to
put some fire under their butts and make up those several days in
almost no time at all without any accidents thankfully. The automated
line could only move at one rate... on. That's a real testament to
the power of just banging something out via hand and heart.
People wonder how the pyramids got built? It seems pretty clear that
it was with a bunch of sweat laden people just plowing away at a job.
It's so amazing how the world at times seems to almost seize up when
the data stops or the power disappears for a while. Granted, it is
tough when you have no concept of anything but. But, everyone owes it
to themselves to be ready for that unknown little mishap that may
occur. To think that ones hard drive will work forever and never
crash is about as wishful as hoping on the powerball to hit and be
able to retire in "style."

My feeling on databooks and printed app notes is much the same feeling
as viewing a scanned image of sunflowers by VanGogh or the Mona Lisa.
Yes, it is there all digitized in a searchable medium. But, there is
something a lot more elegant and functional about a book in hand and a
paper in front of you.

So, Joerg, kudos to you... I'm with you on adapting and just dealing
with it. Next time the internet stops and the power goes down here,
I'll crack a beer before they get too warm and cheers to you.

Dan Charette {dan_at_thesonicfrogFUZZ-dot-com}
Remove the "FUZZ" and replace the underscores and
such from my e-mail address to contact me.

"I may not always be right, but I'm never wrong."

 

[Greg Neff]

On Mon, 03 May 2004 14:35:46 -0500, Dan Charette

(snip)

To think that ones hard drive will work forever and never
crash is about as wishful as hoping on the powerball to hit and be
able to retire in "style."

(snip)

One fire, theft, or loss and your data is history. Our data is stored
on a RAID server (on-line redundant drives) with daily off-site
backup. From a corporate risk perspective I'll take the electronic
data sheet over paper anytime.


================================

Greg Neff
VP Engineering
*Microsym* Computers Inc.
[email protected]

 

[Joerg]

Hi Greg,

That's right if you rely on data books to be part of your product release.
Never a good idea. In the olden days we always copied the sheets for a
released part and that went into the parts master database. A paper
database with tons of manila folders. Today, of course, it's all PDF and
HTML.

Both methods are proof against fire if handled redundantly. The paper
stuff was duplicated between two locations, one in Europe, one in the US.
About 6,000 miles apart. Well, I guess if the world would have be hit by a
huge meteorite the system could have failed. Actually I shouldn't joke
here because one site was in WA state and suddenly Mount St.Helens decided
to blow. What a mess that created.

Regards, Joerg

 

[Greg Neff]

Hi Greg,

That's right if you rely on data books to be part of your product release.
Never a good idea. In the olden days we always copied the sheets for a
released part and that went into the parts master database. A paper
database with tons of manila folders. Today, of course, it's all PDF and
HTML.

Both methods are proof against fire if handled redundantly. The paper
stuff was duplicated between two locations, one in Europe, one in the US.
About 6,000 miles apart. Well, I guess if the world would have be hit by a
huge meteorite the system could have failed. Actually I shouldn't joke
here because one site was in WA state and suddenly Mount St.Helens decided
to blow. What a mess that created.

Regards, Joerg

Another aspect is portability. I can put lots of databooks and
datasheets on a laptop with a sufficiently large hard disk. This came
in very handy last year when I was confined to a 700 square foot
apartment last year for 10 days, in SARS quarantine. Being able to
work productively was the only thing that kept me from going mad.


================================

Greg Neff
VP Engineering
*Microsym* Computers Inc.
[email protected]

 

[Nico Coesel]

Joerg...

My feeling on databooks and printed app notes is much the same feeling
as viewing a scanned image of sunflowers by VanGogh or the Mona Lisa.

Just a quick note to an interesting story: Mona Lisa is best viewed as
an enlarged copy. The original sure as hell ain't worth looking at; it
is surprisingly small for a famous painting and it is behind
dark-teinted glass.

 

[Nico Coesel]

Hi Greg,

Neat! At long last I find someone doing that which I though was blindingly
obvious - ie taking on datasheets as controlled documents etc. I betcha
treat prototypes and testers just like products, too....

One thing that concerns me about the web as a resource is its half life -
IIRC it has been measured to be about 6 months. Yet I have worked with
plenty of people who argue the web should be the companies repository of
such data, rather than the approach you guys take.

Always consider 'the web' a snapshot. For any project I work on, I
copy the datasheet onto my own computer.

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

Just a quick note to an interesting story: Mona Lisa is best viewed as
an enlarged copy. The original sure as hell ain't worth looking at; it
is surprisingly small for a famous painting and it is behind
dark-teinted glass.

Too bad about the glass. I was lucky enough to see it before they did
that.. it just isn't the same. It is a very striking painting, but
with that glass it would be more fun to stroll along Place Concord and
find a Crêpes Suzette stand.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

 

[L. Fiar]

Hey Everyone!

I thought I'd post a quick little dity regarding the importance of
digging deep into websites and data sheet searching. Also, a plea to
anyone thinking of tossing an older looking, tattered paged hard
printed copy of a manufacturer's data book.

I keep all kinds of old data books, technical books, and manuals.
I have old data books for Valves and CRTs, as well as older ICs and
transistors. One old ITT data book is now falling apart, but I refuse to bin
it.
It has been a few years since I dealt with a valve based item, but I still
keep the old valve data book.

I even have some old service manuals, including an old dual standard Philips
monochrome TV from 1965. They finally stopped the 405 line transmissions in
1982, but the manual is a piece of history.

I also have user manuals for some old computer systems, like Sinclairs and
Amstrads. Also, old O/S and applications books... DOS, Win 3.xx, Qbasic,
WordPerfect 5.1, Excel 5, etc.

I go to the library regularly to see if they are getting rid of old
electronics or computing books. At about 30p each, it's worth picking up
such books.


LF.

 

[Dave Cole]

Hey Everyone!

I thought I'd post a quick little dity regarding the importance of
digging deep into websites and data sheet searching. Also, a plea to
anyone thinking of tossing an older looking, tattered paged hard
printed copy of a manufacturer's data book.

I just spent about four hours on Analog Devices website. It all
started from trying to track down an application note I had read
roughly 10 years ago. I knew the note existed, and so I started
looking and poking around. Before I new it, I was deep into the rusty
inards of a long forgotten, cobweb laden tunnel of some very useful
analog stuff. The floors were damp and musty, the air stale and
undisturbed for many years it seemed. I proceeded on and discovered
some nuggets of glittering gold there hidden beneath the muck. As the
years go by and I'm sure everyone can attest to this, databooks and
application notes end up on endangered species lists and eventually
are burned or incinerated as per Bradbury's tale. It seems that much
of the really good recipes for great analog circuit design don't ever
seem to get scanned into PDF files. Instead, they're thrown out by
new green engineers just graduating their respective college programs
and moving into the offices once held by legends who have since
retired from the electronic art community. And so, I plead with
everyone out there, keep those data books and cherish them. When you
do tutor new prospects coming fresh out of school, teach them the
importance of these classic pieces of literature that we all have
grown to cherish and rely on. And for all that is holy in the design
world, don't throw these things out! Post them on Ebay or give them
to the local university lab or something if you really are looking to
spring clean up your lab. I fear that if we don't leave some of this
valuable material behind, many of the future designers will be using
computer program circuit design 'wizards' to design their filters and
amplifiers and won't have a clue as to how to really use that muscle
sitting atop their shoulders. Manual schematic drawing will become
some kind of ancient hieroglyph that will end up on a look alike
Rosetta stone with lyrics from a Nirvana song in Japanese and a recipe
for spicy style borscht in a chicken scratch sketch made by a Cajun
swamp doctor.

By the way... AD's website is packed with really great info all over
the place if you are willing to dig. I'm talking digging way beyond
just links on the main page and links within the search results
windows. Links on old published datasheets are sometimes still
active, but there aren't links that show up through their search
engines. One could almost get a college level engineering degree just
by ingesting the information there. Linear Tech's site is packed as
well not to mention National's, Maxim's, and TI's too.

Preserve the knowledge folks! It's such a vital fingerprint that we
as designer's have.

I agree completely! I still pine for my old National Semiconductor,
Analog Devices, Linear Tech., Burr Brown, Motorola, Texas Inst., Signetics,
and others too numerous to recall, plus many other 'Idea Books' that are
now, like Clementine, lost-and-gone-forever. :-(
I doubt their loss can ever be recouped. When parts count (discretes
and gates - even toobs and relay contacts) needed minimizing, some really
clever designs were created. Now comes the day when _jellybean_
microcontrollers get used to blink lights. O' Brave New World.

Dave Cole

"The ancient Geeks ate their servants; we throw away light bulbs"
from "TV or not TV" by the Firesign Theater (Proctor & Bergman)

 

[John Larkin]

I agree completely! I still pine for my old National Semiconductor,
Analog Devices, Linear Tech., Burr Brown, Motorola, Texas Inst., Signetics,
and others too numerous to recall, plus many other 'Idea Books' that are
now, like Clementine, lost-and-gone-forever. :-(
I doubt their loss can ever be recouped. When parts count (discretes
and gates - even toobs and relay contacts) needed minimizing, some really
clever designs were created. Now comes the day when _jellybean_
microcontrollers get used to blink lights. O' Brave New World.

Dave Cole

I discovered - consternation! - that I'd somehow lost my National 1980
Linear Applications book *and* the huge 1982 databook. Found them both
on Alibris, for about $15 each.

It's even hard to find serious datasheets in things like 1N914s these
days. The old books were great.

John

 

[Winfield Hill]

John Larkin wrote...

It's even hard to find serious datasheets in things like
1N914s these days. The old books were great.

I've been spending time (too much time) getting scans of
those old data sheets into my computer, and backed up too.
I'm up to 20,000 files and 5GB so far.

Ah, for a faster scanner, and faster easier-to-use more-
flexible scanning software!

Thanks,
- Win

(email: use hill_at_rowland-dot-org for now)

 

[mike diack]

I've been spending time (too much time) getting scans of
those old data sheets into my computer, and backed up too.
I'm up to 20,000 files and 5GB so far.

Yes, but then you can't read them on the can (where all the best
design work takes place).
A little pile of supplementary CDs with AofE 3rd edition ?????????
cheers
M

 

[Winfield Hill]

mike diack wrote...

Yes, but then you can't read them on the can (where all the
best design work takes place).

No problem with a tablet computer. I have a Linux model, and
my assistant has a Microsoft model. They're up to the task.

A little pile of supplementary CDs with AofE 3rd edition?

I've switched to DVD-ROMs, 5GB is way too much for CDs. After
my collection exceeds 5GB, I'll have to edit it or something.

AoE 3rd edition may have some web-page supplemental material,
but no CD. These days a supplemental CD is becoming popular
with engineering textbooks, but the publishers use this as an
excuse to raise the price to the $175 or higher vicinity. The
local College bookstore then offers only the "with-CD" version.
We will not be doing that.

Thanks,
- Win

(email: use hill_at_rowland-dot-org for now)

 

[maxfoo]

Yes, but then you can't read them on the can (where all the best
design work takes place).
A little pile of supplementary CDs with AofE 3rd edition ?????????
cheers
M

Maybe he takes his laptop to the john.

Never leave your laptop in a blonde's bathroom...
http://www.20six.co.uk/pub/Slap_Head/Never_leave_a_laptop_in_a_blonde_s_bathroom.jpg









Remove "HeadFromButt", before replying by email.

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

mike diack wrote...

No problem with a tablet computer. I have a Linux model, and
my assistant has a Microsoft model. They're up to the task.


I've switched to DVD-ROMs, 5GB is way too much for CDs. After
my collection exceeds 5GB, I'll have to edit it or something.

http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,115835,00.asp

<snip other good stuff>

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

 

[Phil Hobbs]

mike diack wrote...



No problem with a tablet computer. I have a Linux model, and
my assistant has a Microsoft model. They're up to the task.




I've switched to DVD-ROMs, 5GB is way too much for CDs. After
my collection exceeds 5GB, I'll have to edit it or something.

AoE 3rd edition may have some web-page supplemental material,
but no CD. These days a supplemental CD is becoming popular
with engineering textbooks, but the publishers use this as an
excuse to raise the price to the $175 or higher vicinity. The
local College bookstore then offers only the "with-CD" version.
We will not be doing that.

Thanks,
- Win

(email: use hill_at_rowland-dot-org for now)

How about an .iso file on the web site, to have the best of both worlds?

Cheers,

Phil Hobbs