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Dangerous manufactureing..

Discussion in 'Electronic Design' started by [email protected], Jun 1, 2006.

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  1. Guest

  2. Guest

    Certainly grounds for a negative feedback rating on eBay. Curious...
    the guy didn't elaborate on what he did after he ran all the tests.

    What are the penalties for forging a CE or UL logo nowadays, anyway?
     
  3. Pooh Bear

    Pooh Bear Guest

    Have you alerted 'the authorities' ?

    It's this kind of stuff that CE was meant to stop. However the politicians
    didn't apparently realise that unscrupulous ( Chinese etc ) companies would
    simply lie.

    Graham
     
  4. Joel Kolstad

    Joel Kolstad Guest

    Personally I'd probably give the seller a chance to refund the buyer's money
    and withdraw all other auctions before summarily giving him a negative --
    there's a non-negligible chance he doesn't know he's selling counterfeit
    goods.
    There's a good chance the real manufacturer is in China somewhere, so going
    after them is probably impossible.
     
  5. Guest

    Well maybe the seller was fooled to. You can neg one seller. But you hardly
    neg 100s of chinese fakes.
    I just wanted to make people really aware of not only malfunctioning but
    outright dangerous equipment these kind of business will do.

    In essense scrutinize equipment construction.
    Import ban?, until they change name? :)

    CE is joke. I don't trust it. Semko and the alike are the only ones I would
    consider.
     
  6. What name? That product doesn't have a manufacturer's name on it.
    There are large companies (over 1,000 employees) such as Xi*m*n H*n***
    who have done this in the recent past.
    At least there's generally a file number you can check out. I've seen
    UL and CSA markings fraudulently applied more to production quantities
    of parts more than once. I also have observed special inspection
    stickers being moved from one item to another.. ha.

    This CE thing needs some kind of similar bureaucracy probably. Allow
    the manufacturer (make them a few tens of dollars if necessary) to
    electronically file a statement of compliance, SIGNED by SOMEONE with
    signing authority at the company) with full company identification and
    tax numbers and give them a file number in return. Perhaps verify the
    information (that would cost a bit of money, but nothing compared to
    lab testing. Store the file number and make part of the information
    publicly accessible. Indicate whether self-test or accredited lab did
    the testing, and references to the latter.[/QUOTE]

    That assumes that US Customw will have the time, budget and expertise to
    inspect the documents when the parts are imported.
     
  7. Well maybe the seller was fooled to. You can neg one seller. But you hardly
    neg 100s of chinese fakes.
    I just wanted to make people really aware of not only malfunctioning but
    outright dangerous equipment these kind of business will do.

    In essense scrutinize equipment construction.
    Import ban?, until they change name? :)[/QUOTE]

    What name? That product doesn't have a manufacturer's name on it.
    There are large companies (over 1,000 employees) such as Xi*m*n H*n***
    who have done this in the recent past.
    At least there's generally a file number you can check out. I've seen
    UL and CSA markings fraudulently applied more to production quantities
    of parts more than once. I also have observed special inspection
    stickers being moved from one item to another.. ha.

    This CE thing needs some kind of similar bureaucracy probably. Allow
    the manufacturer (make them a few tens of dollars if necessary) to
    electronically file a statement of compliance, SIGNED by SOMEONE with
    signing authority at the company) with full company identification and
    tax numbers and give them a file number in return. Perhaps verify the
    information (that would cost a bit of money, but nothing compared to
    lab testing. Store the file number and make part of the information
    publicly accessible. Indicate whether self-test or accredited lab did
    the testing, and references to the latter.


    Best regards,
    Spehro Pefhany
     
  8. No, that's left up to the importers, customers and competitors.


    Best regards,
    Spehro Pefhany
     
  9. Pooh Bear

    Pooh Bear Guest

    That adaptor had plenty of forged marks. I don't see why it's any more difficult
    to put Semko on there too.

    Graham
     
  10. Guest

    It isn't but, Semko is at least serious if it's there for real ;)
    In the end anything can be printed on. Other methods have to be applied I
    guess..
     
  11. JeffM

    JeffM Guest

    http://www.electricstuff.co.uk/acadapter.html(I sure wish Peter Brevik woulldn't use that
    ridiculously long username with no spaces in it.)
    "The guy" posts here from time to time.
    It's Mike Harrison's site.
     
  12. I chucked it in my box of assorted PSUs and got on with some real work......
    (Someone from Dell's Legal dept. did subsequently ask me where I got it from....)
     
  13. legg

    legg Guest

    On 01 Jun 2006 04:33:02 GMT,
    "I recently picked up an AC adapter for a Dell laptop I bought on
    Ebay"

    You bought the laptop on E-Bay.
    Where did you by the AC adapter?

    Useful info that is not retrievable directly from the web-page info is

    - wording of the caution label

    Is this something like: 'designed for use Dell Inspiron 8500, Inspiron
    8600, Latitude D series notebooks'?

    When a product is designed specifically for use in a product, then
    testing will use that information to establish 'normal' rises, EMC
    compliance and other issues.

    Any other testing is considered to be under the category of
    single-fault abormals, for which test limits are more relaxed.

    This is not a pretty component, but there's no specific info here to
    suggest either misleading labelling or any malfunction or unsafe
    condition present in its intended end-use.

    Misuse is abuse.

    If adding weight to a component gives customer satisfaction, then it's
    a fairly cheap feature to provide - I've see it often in consumer
    products, particularly those sold over the counter where they can be
    'weighed' against competition.

    RL
     
  14. Pooh Bear

    Pooh Bear Guest

    130C internal temp is a pretty good sign that insulation materials are being
    stressed above their rated working temps.

    The case shouldn't be > 40C above ambient either btw.

    Graham
     
  15. legg

    legg Guest

    The main concern here is intended use.

    None of the products this was designed for consumes the combination of
    current and voltage being applied in this guy's testing.

    As a single-fault abnormal, spot temperature limits approach and may
    exceed the actual listed ratings of the materials, depending on what
    location and component is being examined. This includes external
    surface temperature limits, which the OP hasn't actually recorded.

    I'd rather shoot myself than stick this kind of thing into production,
    but safety approval agencies have only the written standards to go by,
    and there's no indication here that a specific line of a specific
    safety standard is being breached.

    I scooted around the internet, chasing down the Dell PA-10,part
    numbers 9T215, 7W104, model numbers AD-90195D, NADP-90KB and the like,
    and can see nothing about his unit that suggests that its anything
    more or less than the normal Dell product.

    The most that I can say, from casual reading, is that it appears that
    a thermal limiting method expected of this model is pretty slow at
    kicking in, in the OP's DUT. It wouldn't surprise me if this
    protection didn't normally result in a continous, regulated
    temperature limit that was below single-fault limits, but not below
    normal limits.

    This guy is simply demonstrating his ignorance of the standards in
    question, his distaste of low cost off-shore electronics and his
    ability to mis-apply some pretty expensive test equipment.

    It might influence some pointy head at Dell to reconsider product
    quality audits if his page was more easily Googled in reference to the
    model number and the Dell brand name. However, with only a 90 day
    warranty and no actual fires recorded, to date, some other pointy head
    would probably be able to calm him down pretty quickly.

    This doesn't even really rate a 'buyer beware' warning.

    RL
     
  16. Guest

    Nice! At least they followed up.
     
  17. Rich Grise

    Rich Grise Guest

    "Is it heavy?"
    "Yes."
    "Then it's expensive. Put it back."

    ;-)

    I once used some ballast in a little project box just so it wouldn't
    slide around the table when I flipped a switch.

    BTW, if you need some dead weight, I can get chunks of steel in about
    any size or shape for free; all I have to do is steal it out of the
    scrap bin. ;-)

    Cheers!
    Rich
     
  18. John Larkin

    John Larkin Guest


    We made out benchtop delay generator out of steel so it wouldn't slide
    away when you pushed the buttons.

    John
     
  19. Robert Baer

    Robert Baer Guest

    You *steel* the steal?
     
  20. Rich Grise

    Rich Grise Guest

    Yes, since it's a risky operation, I have to steel myself to steal the
    steel, and then steal away in the night. ;-)

    Don't tell my you STEEL don't get it? <sorry, I know it's lame; something
    just came over me!>

    Cheers!
    Rich
     
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