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curious about electronics manufacturing process

Let's say, for example, that I'd like to design a wireless karaoke
device. (Just for the sake of example. A Google search results in
quite a few of these things.)

What would the process be like, from concept to finished product?
(Where would I start, who would I hire as contractors, etc.?)

Here's what I've got so far:

Concept

Attorney (patents, etc.)

Electrical engineers + programmers


I'm drawing a blank right around here:

Product molding and packaging (what is the trade name for these guys?)

Mass production (probably offshore) : how does one establish contact
with such folks? How would one know whether they are trustworthy, etc?


I'm sure lots of you guys have designed and built finished products;
just curious how the full route goes.

Thanks,

Michael
 
S

Spehro Pefhany

Jan 1, 1970
0
Let's say, for example, that I'd like to design a wireless karaoke
device. (Just for the sake of example. A Google search results in
quite a few of these things.)

What would the process be like, from concept to finished product?
(Where would I start, who would I hire as contractors, etc.?)

Here's what I've got so far:

Concept

Attorney (patents, etc.)

Electrical engineers + programmers


I'm drawing a blank right around here:

Product molding and packaging (what is the trade name for these guys?)

Mass production (probably offshore) : how does one establish contact
with such folks? How would one know whether they are trustworthy, etc?


I'm sure lots of you guys have designed and built finished products;
just curious how the full route goes.

Thanks,

Michael

Unless your plan involves going broke as the finale you'd better
include a lot of prototypes and market testing in there right near the
start.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
 
E

Eeyore

Jan 1, 1970
0
Let's say, for example, that I'd like to design a wireless karaoke
device. (Just for the sake of example. A Google search results in
quite a few of these things.)

What would the process be like, from concept to finished product?
(Where would I start, who would I hire as contractors, etc.?)

Here's what I've got so far:

Concept

Where did the concept come from ? Market research ? Blue sky thinking ? A useful
outline spec is needed.

Attorney (patents, etc.)

Few things are patentable. Forget the useless overhead cost jerks OK ?

Electrical engineers + programmers

Their first job is to look at the concept and see it it'll work. If it doesn't
they may come up with a solution that does the same.

A couple of prototype iterations are normal btw. Who does the pcb layout in your
scheme of things btw. You'll need a draughtsman or two.

Don't forget protoype evaluation ideally with existing customers to iron out any
unforseen bugs.

I'm drawing a blank right around here:

Product molding and packaging (what is the trade name for these guys?)

Mechanical design. Don't forget the 'pretty' factor. Graphic designers etc.

Even the 'carboard box' has to be designed ( hopefully to actually provide some
useful level of protection to the product - to be checked by drop testing ).

Mass production (probably offshore) : how does one establish contact
with such folks? How would one know whether they are trustworthy, etc?

Contacts, luck, experience.

The sub-contractor will need info to test your product. Ideally complete test
jigs and test prodedures should be supplied.

Who's going to write the user manual btw ?

I'm sure lots of you guys have designed and built finished products;
just curious how the full route goes.

Don't forget standards compliance ( safety and EMC ).

Graham
 
M

Myauk

Jan 1, 1970
0
I understand that you are talking about product development.

There are two or three books that I have found in the regional library
nearby my place concerning with this.

Starting a new venture, developing, selling product and making money is
not so easy as it seems to be.

You might need a lot of experience with that:- you might need to join
an typical SME and spend at least three years to understand well, I
think.

I might be wrong cuz I am too young in the professional field but I am
just sharing what I know cuz I would like to start my own business some
day, which is my mian focus of studying things these days.

Regards
 
F

Frithiof Andreas Jensen

Jan 1, 1970
0
Let's say, for example, that I'd like to design a wireless karaoke
device. (Just for the sake of example. A Google search results in
quite a few of these things.)

What would the process be like, from concept to finished product?
(Where would I start, who would I hire as contractors, etc.?)

Selling, Selling and yet MORE Selling:

You will need an ocean of money - to get that you will need to write a business
plan and sell it to the bank or venture fund.

If you have a somewhat working prototype it is easier to sell - even if it is
hardcoded in Java on a mobile phone and does nothing at all except VISUALISE the
idea: A colleague sold a distributed sensor research project with a "radar
display" with green (our guys) and red (intruders) running on a mobile phone!

If you are inside a business, it is the same show: one has to find a sponsor in
competition with everyone else & dog so your project has to look like the next
Google with no risk.
Here's what I've got so far:

Concept

Good - but down to the level of explaining "why would said:
Attorney (patents, etc.)

Parasites and Useless, respectively.
Electrical engineers + programmers

In general it is better not to hire anyone but to outsource instead - you then
pay per-unit instead of paying fixed expenses to bank loans and employees. That
way it is not so much your problem if the product does not sell or there are
dead months. Keep the core knowledge in-house and the rest on a pay-per-hour.
I'm drawing a blank right around here:

Product molding and packaging (what is the trade name for these guys?)

Mass production (probably offshore) : how does one establish contact
with such folks? How would one know whether they are trustworthy, etc?

The design consultant will know the right people if he/she is any good!
 

neon

Oct 21, 2006
1,325
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
1,325
i id had a wanderfull concept/idea then i try to patent it. ocean of money is not enough. the research alone would have cost me my house the wife and the car. then patent what the idea ,concept or the device whoo cares i am broke. Anyhow wireless karaoke are here all ready with inbedded 2000 songs in the microphones and the cost is $250 bucks your device better do more then that for less cost. I find out that an individual cannot do this kind of thing by himself not even BILL GATES could have done DOS without IBM money.
 
Eeyore said:
Where did the concept come from ? Market research ? Blue sky thinking ? A useful
outline spec is needed.


More like annoyance. The wife wants one of those karaoke microphones -
but at $200-$300 each, I thought, 1) what a waste of $$$; 2) geez, a
cheaper solution has to exist!

Few things are patentable. Forget the useless overhead cost jerks OK ?


Well, ok, maybe just a patent search...? I'd hate to get a call in the
middle of the night from XYZ Corp.'s attorney, saying I'd just
infringed on one (or several) of XYZ Corp's patent(s)...

Their first job is to look at the concept and see it it'll work. If it doesn't
they may come up with a solution that does the same.

A couple of prototype iterations are normal btw. Who does the pcb layout in your
scheme of things btw. You'll need a draughtsman or two.

Don't forget protoype evaluation ideally with existing customers to iron out any
unforseen bugs.



Mechanical design. Don't forget the 'pretty' factor. Graphic designers etc.

Even the 'carboard box' has to be designed ( hopefully to actually provide some
useful level of protection to the product - to be checked by drop testing ).



Contacts, luck, experience.

The sub-contractor will need info to test your product. Ideally complete test
jigs and test prodedures should be supplied.

Who's going to write the user manual btw ?



Don't forget standards compliance ( safety and EMC ).


Oh yes, good idea!


- Michael
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hello Frithiof Andreas and Michael,
Selling, Selling and yet MORE Selling:

You will need an ocean of money - to get that you will need to write a business
plan and sell it to the bank or venture fund.

If you have a somewhat working prototype it is easier to sell - even if it is
hardcoded in Java on a mobile phone and does nothing at all except VISUALISE the
idea: A colleague sold a distributed sensor research project with a "radar
display" with green (our guys) and red (intruders) running on a mobile phone!

If you are inside a business, it is the same show: one has to find a sponsor in
competition with everyone else & dog so your project has to look like the next
Google with no risk.

But be honest about the risks. I have done a lot of this "selling" via
proposal writing. Sometimes companies or VCs turned them down based on
risks outlined in there but I'd rather have that happen than being
dishonest by playing down the risks. After all, when you take their
money you are as much responsible for using it properly as you are when
running a shareholder owned company. IOW, it's not your money. It gives
me the goose pimples when I read the usual "Superdupergizmo Inc. won $5M
in A round". IMHO this has nothing to do with winning money, it's a seed
and the folks who fork it over expect a substantial return. And they should.
Good - but down to the level of explaining "why would <customer> want this"



In general it is better not to hire anyone but to outsource instead - you then
pay per-unit instead of paying fixed expenses to bank loans and employees. That
way it is not so much your problem if the product does not sell or there are
dead months. Keep the core knowledge in-house and the rest on a pay-per-hour.

Initially, yes, but make sure the consultants are dedicated and
trustworthy. And paid on time, else their dedication factor will dwindle
fast.

Industrial designers.

The design consultant will know the right people if he/she is any good!

Absolutely.
 
Joerg said:
Hello Frithiof Andreas and Michael,


But be honest about the risks. I have done a lot of this "selling" via
proposal writing. Sometimes companies or VCs turned them down based on
risks outlined in there but I'd rather have that happen than being
dishonest by playing down the risks. After all, when you take their
money you are as much responsible for using it properly as you are when
running a shareholder owned company. IOW, it's not your money. It gives
me the goose pimples when I read the usual "Superdupergizmo Inc. won $5M
in A round". IMHO this has nothing to do with winning money, it's a seed
and the folks who fork it over expect a substantial return. And they should.


Plus how many of <customer> there are, how much <customer> is willing to
fork over per unit and, most of all, how you arrived at those numbers.


How is this research usually done? (Somehow I don't think they stand
in the mall, asking people to fill out surveys...)

Cold-calling people to answer a few questions by phone survey?

Initially, yes, but make sure the consultants are dedicated and
trustworthy. And paid on time, else their dedication factor will dwindle
fast.


Industrial designers.



Absolutely.


Does 'design consultant' = 'industrial designer'?

Thanks,

Michael
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hello Michael,
How is this research usually done? (Somehow I don't think they stand
in the mall, asking people to fill out surveys...)

Cold-calling people to answer a few questions by phone survey?

This can become one of the more expensive parts of the project and it's
coming out of your own pocket. I can only speak for the medical
electronics world and there this phase is really expensive: Teams from
consulting companies actually might do such surveys, hospital by
hospital. Lots of travel $$. Other times you can buy reports from them
if you are going into a market that is already served by others. Those
reports can cost more than a luxury car.

Then you often need statements from "luminaries" that are widely
regarded as experts.

[ ... ]>>
Does 'design consultant' = 'industrial designer'?

I have never heard someone being called design consultant. An industrial
design house is the place where they can develop an appealing enclosure
and also provide fabrication drawings in AutoCAD, SolidWorks etc. They
should also be able to create prototypes.
 
R

Rich Grise

Jan 1, 1970
0
More like annoyance. The wife wants one of those karaoke microphones -
but at $200-$300 each, I thought, 1) what a waste of $$$; 2) geez, a
cheaper solution has to exist!

Sure! A $6.00 RS mic and a $9.00 set of amplified computer speakers, and
a player of some kind that plays instrumentals (CD, cassette, phonograph,
etc), and a libretto.

Practically free!

Cheers!
Rich
 
Rich said:
Sure! A $6.00 RS mic and a $9.00 set of amplified computer speakers, and
a player of some kind that plays instrumentals (CD, cassette, phonograph,
etc), and a libretto.

Practically free!

Cheers!
Rich


Well, I was kinda hoping for something that would go through our 100W
stereo amp.

I'd been playing with the RCA inputs for the stereo: L speaker has the
audio, the R speaker has the mic. Then playing with the balance level.
Works, but of course has exposed wiring, since the stereo is now on
its side, so I could access the wires... THEN the wife wanted to switch
from DVD karaoke to the Comcast-On-Demand karaoke channel... switch the
wiring again (L speaker now has audio from the cable box instead of
from the DVD...)

Guess I need a mixer. ;-)

Oh, those wireless karaoke mics go for between $300 and $400... I was
off by about $100...

Michael
 
Joerg wrote:

....



Oh neato. I found these guys (after finding nothing in the Valley
Yellow Pages):

http://www.idsa.org

Come to think of it... wasn't it an Industrial Design firm that the
inventors in the show American Inventor worked with, to create
prototypes...?

Michael
 
E

Eeyore

Jan 1, 1970
0
Well, I was kinda hoping for something that would go through our 100W
stereo amp.

I'd been playing with the RCA inputs for the stereo: L speaker has the
audio, the R speaker has the mic. Then playing with the balance level.
Works, but of course has exposed wiring, since the stereo is now on
its side, so I could access the wires... THEN the wife wanted to switch
from DVD karaoke to the Comcast-On-Demand karaoke channel... switch the
wiring again (L speaker now has audio from the cable box instead of
from the DVD...)

Guess I need a mixer. ;-)

Oh, those wireless karaoke mics go for between $300 and $400... I was
off by about $100...

What do they actually *do* ?

Graham
 
Eeyore said:
What do they actually *do* ?

Graham


Here, take a look:
http://www.acekaraoke.com/magmic.html

The wired ones have some sort of microcomputer on-board that spits out
lyrics (and pretty background images) to the TV, plus stereo audio
output. And, at the end, you get a score: anything from 0 ("Try
Singing Next Time") to 95 (the highest score, at a party we attended).

I'm still wondering how they manage to fit 2,000+ songs onto the
microphone/microcomputer. The music has to be some sort of MIDI...
otherwise, 2000 songs x 3 min/song x 1 MB/min (mp3 compressed) = 6 GB
of flash memory. Maybe *that's* why they're so expensive...?

Michael
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hello Michael,
Oh neato. I found these guys (after finding nothing in the Valley
Yellow Pages):

http://www.idsa.org

Come to think of it... wasn't it an Industrial Design firm that the
inventors in the show American Inventor worked with, to create
prototypes...?

No idea, I don't watch much TV. We usually select an industrial design
firm that is close to the client and that specializes in the task at
hand. Injection molding, metal, plastic bezels, whatever the product needs.

The most unusual designer I have worked with on an electronics product
was a true artist. His mainstream biz was actually clothes design. It
was a rather delicate balancing act to bring EMI concerns into the
discussion :)
 
F

Frithiof Andreas Jensen

Jan 1, 1970
0
How is this research usually done? (Somehow I don't think they stand
in the mall, asking people to fill out surveys...)

Cold-calling people to answer a few questions by phone survey?




Does 'design consultant' = 'industrial designer'?

Probably - me poor english!

I was actually thinking about the rare combo of artistic and hardnosed people
that can give the product a beautiful shape yet still know how it can be
manufactured, by whom, and what a budget means.
 
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