Counterfeit Hitachi chips - is this really possible?

[Paul Burke]

The following is the text of a fault report I have just typed up for a
batch of H8/323 chips that have come in but don't work at all:


What amazes me is that it would be worth somebody's while to
manufacture bogus devices. This was a 3000 piece batch. This is quite
an unusual part, discontinued around 2001 by Hitachi and circulating
fairly freely on the "we can get you discontinued parts" second tier
distributor circuit in the USA and elsewhere.

Many years ago I did some ASIC design and one could get those kinds of
quantities made, just about, but this kind of thing suggests a well
geared up operation (I don't know the source but most likely in the
Far East) which tries to make a fast buck, then fold up (because the
con will be immediately discovered) and start under another name.

 

[Peter]

The following is the text of a fault report I have just typed up for a
batch of H8/323 chips that have come in but don't work at all:

The devices do not program as a standard HD6473238F10, using a Data I/O
Chiplab-48 programmer. The device comes up as invalid - much as would
happen if there was nothing in the socket.

The devices are also the wrong size; the lead frame is about 0.5mm larger
than the Hitachi spec and it jams in our ZIF socket, which is an expensive
programming adapter made in the USA and recommended by Data I/O.

The marking is weird. On the one hand they are marked "HD6473238F10" (which
is the correct part number) but then they are also marked "H8/223" (which
as far as I can tell is a part that has never existed, from Hitachi or
anybody else).

The supplied photograph showing the device in question, next to a real
H8/323, shows the subtle differences.

The following are nor problems as such but may be useful information:

The overall packaging is different to Hitachi. It comes on 70-device
trays whereas Hitachi have always (since we started using these in 1994)
used 50-device trays. The labelling style is completely different from
anything we have ever seen from Hitachi on this part. The date code on the
chip itself, 8K1, is not one we have seen before but is not implausible.

My opinion is that these chips are counterfeit; a most bizzare possibility
since it would be immediately discovered by anybody actually using them.
The "H8/223" marking is a dead give-away of a non-Hitachi part; it's rather
like printing $100 bills with $110 on them. We didn't break any to see if
there is silicon inside.

What amazes me is that it would be worth somebody's while to
manufacture bogus devices. This was a 3000 piece batch. This is quite
an unusual part, discontinued around 2001 by Hitachi and circulating
fairly freely on the "we can get you discontinued parts" second tier
distributor circuit in the USA and elsewhere.

Many years ago I did some ASIC design and one could get those kinds of
quantities made, just about, but this kind of thing suggests a well
geared up operation (I don't know the source but most likely in the
Far East) which tries to make a fast buck, then fold up (because the
con will be immediately discovered) and start under another name.

 

[Ancient_Hacker]

The following is the text of a fault report I have just typed up for a
batch of H8/323 chips that have come in but don't work at all:

A few possibilities:

Some OEM asked Hitachi to make a bunch of these chips, but with an
altered pinout, in order to get better grounding or whatnot. or it
would save them 5 cents per PC board if the data lines didnt have to
cross over.

They were rejects from final testing at Hitachi. They went into the
metal recycling barrel, but somebody rescued them and ran them thru
the silk-screen machine at night.

Many years ago there was a place in Lynn, Mass called "Poly Paks" that
would sell you a polyethylene bag of IC's at $1 for 8 IC's. This was
when a 7404 cost $3. What they mentioned only in the very fine print
was that these chips were all rejects from some production line. For
example their bag of LED's would all be off-center, dim, or have
bubbles in the epoxy. Maybe your IC's came from their oriental
stepchild.

 

[martin.shoebridge]

The following is the text of a fault report I have just typed up for a
batch of H8/323 chips that have come in but don't work at all:

Plenty of counterfeit chips on the world market for the unwary!!!

 

[Stanislaw Flatto]

The following is the text of a fault report I have just typed up for a
batch of H8/323 chips that have come in but don't work at all:




What amazes me is that it would be worth somebody's while to
manufacture bogus devices. This was a 3000 piece batch. This is quite
an unusual part, discontinued around 2001 by Hitachi and circulating
fairly freely on the "we can get you discontinued parts" second tier
distributor circuit in the USA and elsewhere.

Many years ago I did some ASIC design and one could get those kinds of
quantities made, just about, but this kind of thing suggests a well
geared up operation (I don't know the source but most likely in the
Far East) which tries to make a fast buck, then fold up (because the
con will be immediately discovered) and start under another name.

Racist!
And 'yes' it IS possible.
"We always learn." a Hassidic proverb.
Years ago, I work in aerospace electronics and the password for
components is "MILSPEC" with the manufacturers and parts in small
approved list, with prices accordingly higher, with papers signed
certifying the "one and only truth" on delivery.
So a shippment of few thousand components arrives and they fail
misserable on incoming tests. Strange as we use this factory for years
and did not have problems before.
So we cut one component and we find that there is NO silicon chip inside?!
Telex, no fax yet, we get permission to cut few more, S.O.S. (Same Old
Shit) no silicon chips in any of them.
Few days later express airmail delivery of our order arrived with a
prayer to keep it reasonable quiet. So no name of respectable "Yankee"
manufacturer.

Have fun.

Stanislaw.

 

[martin.shoebridge]

SNIP

Racist!
And 'yes' it IS possible.
"We always learn." a Hassidic proverb.
Years ago, I work in aerospace electronics and the password for components
is "MILSPEC" with the manufacturers and parts in small approved list, with
prices accordingly higher, with papers signed certifying the "one and only
truth" on delivery.
So a shippment of few thousand components arrives and they fail misserable
on incoming tests. Strange as we use this factory for years and did not
have problems before.
So we cut one component and we find that there is NO silicon chip inside?!
Telex, no fax yet, we get permission to cut few more, S.O.S. (Same Old
Shit) no silicon chips in any of them.
Few days later express airmail delivery of our order arrived with a prayer
to keep it reasonable quiet. So no name of respectable "Yankee"
manufacturer.

Have fun.

Stanislaw.

I apologise for saying 'china' . One can find crooks anywhere in the world.
It was mentioned by the OP though...
My particular knowledge of a similar thing came from a ( apparently)
reputable USA supplier of obsolete HC11 parts....
I hope that redresses the balance.

 

[Phil Allison]

"Peter"

What amazes me is that it would be worth somebody's while to
manufacture bogus devices.

** With rare exceptions - they don't.

Counterfeit semis are created by altering the labelling on some other semi
in a similar package.

This allows old, unsellable, reject or low cost parts to be traded as
whatever the market needs now.


See this URL for a few examples of the "craft" :

http://sound.westhost.com/counterfeit.htm




........ Phil

 

[Peter]

Some OEM asked Hitachi to make a bunch of these chips, but with an
altered pinout, in order to get better grounding or whatnot. or it
would save them 5 cents per PC board if the data lines didnt have to
cross over.

They were rejects from final testing at Hitachi. They went into the
metal recycling barrel, but somebody rescued them and ran them thru
the silk-screen machine at night.

This is unlikely, as a) Hitachi would not have marked them with the
normal P/N or b) they would have been the same package as the normal
parts, not approx 0.5mm bigger.

This is such a specialised chip that I think this counterfeit
operation was done to fulfill this particular requirement, of only a
few thousand chips at USD 7 each.

 

[Peter]

you posted a blank response

 

[Phil Allison]

"Peter"

you posted a blank response

** Cos he had nothing to say ?



...... Phil

 

[Richard Henry]

you posted a blank response

Empty inside like the bogus chips.