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Could this device be built?

Discussion in 'Electronic Repair' started by Spob, Aug 19, 2007.

  1. Arny Krueger

    Arny Krueger Guest

    Klystrons and Magnetrons can be mechanically tuned over a limited range.
    Making the receivers track the transmitters is a bigger problem.
    The jamming equipment I worked against was pretty limited - it seemed to
    only jam one band at a time. After all, it was in a fighter/bomber (F4) not
    a B-52.

    As long as my HIPIR didn't try to obtain ranging information, the jammer
    usualy just enhanced my radar's target tracking accuracy. Seriously, a
    target could be kinda marginal for tracking due to extreme range, but when
    he turned on his jammer the tracking often tightened right up. His counter
    for that was to try to AM his signal close to the rotational speed of the
    rotating scanner, but as a rule that was not very effective. It is possible
    that his jammer was optimized for a scanner that ran faster or slower.

    Since jamming usually *enhanced* HIPIR tracking, making the ROR track for
    itself would like going backwards.

    Furthermore, once you had even a guess at the target's range, a homing
    missle had a good chance of getting to the target. Range info was most
    important for knowing when the target was in range. Range did go into the
    lead angle calculations for optimizing the intercept, but it was a smaller
    part of the solution.
    A really small one, or one with a rough surface, but that wasn't the
    problem.

    Ku band is appreciably more sensitive to problems with rain and snow, not
    that X band isn't also affected by them. But weather is less of a problem
    in the X band.

    Look at how satellite TV suffers with heavy weather.
     
  2. Phildo

    Phildo Guest

    Ah yes, I believe some people have designed a gadget along those very lines
    and called them "guns"
    That rules out the USA then.

    Phildo
     
  3. Tom2000

    Tom2000 Guest

    Don't know what Dfas means, but, Jim, if you were stationed at the
    Nike site in Cleveland, I owe you guys a big thanks.

    When I was in the Army, I'd have access to an AUTOVON phone every now
    and then. When I was able, I'd call the Cleveland Nike site and ask
    for a patch to an outside line for a personal call. You guys were
    nice enough to give me the patch, every time, with absolutely no
    hassles.

    It was really great to talk to my family and girlfriend about every
    month or so. It meant a lot to me.

    Thanks!

    Tom
     
  4. John Larkin

    John Larkin Guest


    I'd like to have a short-range imaging radar, sort of like my Flir
    handheld thermal imager, as a sort of super stud finder.

    Imagine a pc board covered with etched patch antennas, one or more
    step-recovery-diode impulse generators, and a lot of sampling
    receivers. Run it at several MHz, do a lot of averaging and signal
    processing, and reconstruct the image. Maybe use Wii type
    accelerometers so as the array is moved around, additional signal
    paths can be crunched in to enhance resolution without blurring. The
    microwave side of the hardware would be dirt cheap, and the signal
    processing would have a high engineering cost but would also be cheap
    in production.

    Take a look at McEwan's patents for an idea of how the hardware would
    work. He was mostly looking at stuff like auto collision detection,
    1-dimensional ranging, but imaging is quite feasible if you dump
    enough DSP onto the problem.

    Firemen could use this for smoke penetration, or cops could spot bad
    guys in the next room, and I could spot cats under beds without having
    to crawl around on the floor.

    John
     
  5. Guest

    Defense Finance and Accounting Service; where retired pay comes from.

    I was alost assigned to Cleveland, but they switched the orders to
    Union Lake, Michigan at the last minute.
    Most of the Nike sites did that.
     
  6. Guest

    It used magnetrons, dual, independant receivers and transmitters and a
    panoramic display.

    It takes a quadurature feed to get angular error information and the
    TRR didn't have that and didn't need it as you got all the angular
    information needed from the TTR.
     
  7. Joel Kolstad

    Joel Kolstad Guest

    You can already buy these devices, but of course the price tag is still rather
    high (possibly something like $50k/unit!? -- I visited the booth of a company
    selling them a couple years back now, and they were targeting fire departments
    and other government funded agencies that had that kind of money to throw
    around).

    Super stud finders would sell like hotcakes once you got them to the $500
    level. Even at $2500 you'd probably get plenty of takers. But at $50k... not
    so much.
     
  8. Tom Potter

    Tom Potter Guest

    Note that John's idea for a hand-held RADAR
    differs from mine.

    The one I propose would use Google Maps
    to correlate with the RADAR data, and to display
    where the user was, and the moving targets about him,

    whereas John's RADAR would be provide a two,
    and perhaps three dimensional picture of the
    targets in its' range.

    John's RADAR would use techniques like those
    used in medical imaging I suppose.

    --
    Tom Potter

    *** Time Magazine Person of the Year 2006 ***
    *** May 2007 Anti-Bigot Award ***
    http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp
    http://tdp1001.googlepages.com/home
    http://no-turtles.com
    http://www.frappr.com/tompotter
    http://spaces.msn.com/tdp1001
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter
    http://tom-potter.blogspot.com
     
  9. Rich Grise

    Rich Grise Guest

    I thought those were merely the mind-control rays, but I thought their
    spectrum also covered 174-216 MHz and 470-890 MHz. ;-)

    http://www.ntia.doc.gov/osmhome/allochrt.pdf

    Cheers!
    Rich
     
  10. Rich Grise

    Rich Grise Guest


    One of the systems I worked on was the APR-9, "Radar Homing and Warning
    Receiver". It had four spiral antennas, one on each corner of the airplane,
    and it gave an indication like a PPI of which direction the radar was
    coming from, excpet the longer the strobe, the closer/more powerful.

    Because of the way the SAM radar worked, when the two beams are in sync,
    you know they've locked onto you. It lights up a light in the cockpit,
    labeled "AS" for "Acquisition Sector". Needless to say, it came to be
    referred to as the "Aw Shit" light. ;-)

    Cheers!
    Rich
     
  11. Rich Grise

    Rich Grise Guest

    ALQ-71? ALQ-72? ALQ-87? QRC-119? ;-)

    Cheers!
    Rich
     
  12. Rich Grise

    Rich Grise Guest

    [totally snipped]

    I'd appreciate it if you're going to attribute me, you'd include
    at least _some_ of my actual words.

    Thanks,
    Rich
     
  13. Rich Grise

    Rich Grise Guest

    In case my other post didn't get cancelled (where I bitch at you
    for not quoting me right) I didn't recognize the interleaved style
    right away. Sorry.
     
  14. Rich Grise

    Rich Grise Guest

    Even so, zapping their front ends won't have a lot of effect on the
    power amp and "speak"ers.

    Thanks,
    Rich
     
  15. John Larkin

    John Larkin Guest

    It would be asfer for everyone if you stayed away from Google
    entirely.

    See above.

    John
     
  16. JosephKK

    JosephKK Guest

    Fred Bloggs posted to sci.electronics.design:
    Sure, chirp radar is over 40 years old. TWT comes to mind. They
    may have had a problem figuring out CSRO for Ku band at the time.
    A bent horn?
     
  17. Yeah. Invent a time machine and live out your life before the
    invention of sound systems.
     
  18. Mickey530

    Mickey530 Guest

    Toy? they were used a Carin Airfield, just a few miles from Ft
    Rucker Alabama, for the US Army helicopter and US Air Force Air
    Traffic
    Controller schools. 2 million watts is not a toy. It had a 200 mile
    maximum range, and was built by Westinghouse. two complete, hot
    systems
    that could be switched over at the flip of a switch, if there was any
    problems. Five techs on duty, 24/7 doing routine maintenance, and
    emergency repairs. If they went down, two schools and 17 airfields
    were
    shut down to all non instrument rated pilots.

    The US Air Force's air traffic control school was and (assuming they
    cleaned up after Katrina) is at Keesler AFB, Biloxi, Mississipi. As
    was the radar technician school. I was an Air Traffic Controller in
    the Air Force from 1975-1982.

    At no time did we use "live" radar. It was all simulation. Control
    tower training (as opposed to radar training) consisted of students
    holding toy airplanes in position as instructed over a ping-pong type
    table which had been painted to resemble an airport. Some guys got
    pretty good at imitating a cessna's engine noise. ; -)

    Further, in both the Air Force and FAA, radar failures were and are
    still common. That was one of the major issues that caused the
    controller strike in 1982. We had to then convert to non radar
    procedures. which consisted of, among other things, increasing
    spacing and having the pilots report "fixes". Airports do not close
    because of these failures. Non-Instrument rated pilots do not as a
    rule use the ATC system except for radar advisories and controllers
    provide this service to VFR pilots on a time permitting basis. The
    exception is the airspace near large airports and certain other high
    traffic areas.

    Regards,

    MickeyD
     
  19. Arny Krueger

    Arny Krueger Guest

    Tracking radars have both elevation and azimuth axes and drives.
    Sure there are, when you have to synchronize them, as you do in a missile
    battery.

    My recollection is that you sight the acquisition radar on a marker some
    distance away, and then sight the trackers on the acq in rotation.
    Easy to do with with any of the trackers.
    Sure, kick the radar's transmitter out of standby and into transmit.
    Or CW.
    Congratulations, you finally got a fact right!
    In a manner of speaking. ;-)
    Yes, but the fenced in areas aren't necessarily that large.

    For example, there are the remains of a Nike Hercules site at N42 34' 15".
    W82 58' 23". The building on the north side of the road at that location
    looks to me like a Hercules Assembly and Service building. The road running
    diagonal south of is is Utica road a major heavily-used public road, and its
    been there and in continous service since the 1800s. The radars were on
    pylons tree-covered area south of the road.

    There was another Nike Hercules site at W83 03' 03" N 42 38' 21". You can
    see what it looked like in the days of, at
    http://nikehercules.tripod.com/d-06.html . The road that the site is on has
    again been there since the 1800s, is a major public road, and was in
    continuous service while the site was in use.
    No. There was an Ajax site, nitric acid fuel and all, immediately next to 7
    mile road in Detroit, inside the Detroit city limits. Our family drove by it
    on the way to church on Sunday. A few hundred feet away from the launchers
    were occupied residences.
    Concrete pylons or steel towers, if necessary.
    Just cook birds and land crabs. Oh, and give me sun burns on cloudy days
    when I worked on them powered up for adjustments.
    As I've shown, many air defense sites had heavily-used public roads running
    right through them!
     
  20. Slappy White

    Slappy White Guest

    What may work and has a little more comedic value and stealth than a
    full blown gun is a pellet gun (air rifle). Make you own rubber
    pellets (indian rubber is best) with a broken peice of cermaic inside.
    Fire it at the side or rear window, the cermaic will puncture the
    glass causing it to break into little cubes. The rubber will make sure
    that it bounces away from the window (no evidence left on the seat)--
    have you ever broken a window as a kid with a hard rubber ball, the
    ball always came back as opposed to going through. Little sound from
    the air rifle (they will never hear it).

    In the end the idiots will think the sound system blew out the window.
    "Man my system is powoerful, it blew out my window..." They may come
    back but it will eventually get expensive for them....

    Does not kill the music but it may solve the issue.... If nothing else
    they will turn it down to save the windows...

    Will not work on the windsheild BTW, different glass.
     
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