Could this device be built?

[Michael A. Terrell]

US Army Nike had a missle track, target track and a target range radar,
all of which were steerable in both azimuth and elevation.

Since Nike radars were normally deployed on the highest hill around,
the MTR, TTR, and TRR could all be depressed below the horizon.

All of them were boresighted and aligned by bolting on the telescope,
going to manual control, and aiming them with a box that hung by a strap
around your neck at the alignment target about a quarter mile away.

Do you really think any of these antiques are still in use?

We used to regularly break the MP's speed radar at Ft Bliss until the
MP's wised up and made sure there was a metal building between them
and us.

We could wipe them out to about a mile away and jam them a lot
farther than that.

This was the late 60's.

Late '60s? the police used real garbage, with an unprotected 1N23
type diode in the horn as a mixer. Just touching the element in the
horn would blow those diodes. Hell, a UHF ham radio transmitter would
take them out, at well under a kilowatt. The front end diodes were
shipped, wrapped in a thick layer of lead foil. I think I still have a
couple Western Electric surplus around, somewhere.

While I was in Korea, a spook detachment set up a listening post
down the hill from us.

They were a bunch of jerks and pissed off everyone, so I gave their
equipment the same treatment.

Sure. If they knew what caused it, you would have spent at least
five years in Leavenworth.

They moved to the next mountain after they got their gear fixed.

Tell me more about your toy radars.

Toy? they were used a Carin Airfield, just a few miles from Ft
Rucker Alabama, for the US Army helicopter and US Air Force Air Traffic
Controller schools. 2 million watts is not a toy. It had a 200 mile
maximum range, and was built by Westinghouse. two complete, hot systems
that could be switched over at the flip of a switch, if there was any
problems. Five techs on duty, 24/7 doing routine maintenance, and
emergency repairs. If they went down, two schools and 17 airfields were
shut down to all non instrument rated pilots.



--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Yes, "fry". Did you guys see the 60 minutes piece some time ago about
some "inventor" who had a device to "fry" auto computers. Details were
sparce, but clearly seemed to be some kind of cross between a tesla
coil and a microwave pulser. He stopped a running car at some
distance (cheated by having hood up).

The point is that any solid state device always has a bunch of semi-
conductors that follow the rule: Semiconductor parts make better fuses
than fuses! Usually most solid state circuit boards have some of
these are low voltage parts that can't take much emi.

I wouldn't be surprised if cops had emi car stoppers right now. Sure
beats a 100 MPH chase or those tire spikes that could send a 100 MPH
car into a neighborhood house. I have also heard rumors that all
modern car computers have "secret" codes that can be transmitted into
them that stops them. Wouldn't surprise me a bit.

Par a noid.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Androcles]

: Sitting at a gas station as some backwards baseball cap and saggass
: britches wearing kid parks in the fire zone in front of the store with
: some fukdamuhfukinniggahbeyotch crap blasting out of his truck for
: everyone's entertainment, got me to thinking.
:
: Would it be possible to build a gizmo that could be surreptitiously
: aimed at the offending stereo system to fry some crucial components?

The first such device is this one, but it lacks subtlety.
http://www.nightvisionsales.com/images/Laserlyte_Laser/QD-Laser-Berettaside.jpgUsually the threat the laser presents is sufficient.: It would have to be able to do it on a pretty localized basis without: causing damage to the person aiming the gizmo or innocent bystanders: or their car's electronics.Oh... In that case frying is going to be difficult, but the secondrecourse is to transmit on his frequency and override the signalhe's getting. You'll find transmitter designs on the web.: Whether it would fry any additional: components of said target punk's car isn't of great concern.:: Call it The Rapper Zapper.:: Just wonderin'.:::

 

[Laurence Payne]

Sitting at a gas station as some backwards baseball cap and saggass
britches wearing kid parks in the fire zone in front of the store with
some fukdamuhfukinniggahbeyotch crap blasting out of his truck for
everyone's entertainment, got me to thinking.

Would it be possible to build a gizmo that could be surreptitiously
aimed at the offending stereo system to fry some crucial components?
It would have to be able to do it on a pretty localized basis without
causing damage to the person aiming the gizmo or innocent bystanders
or their car's electronics. Whether it would fry any additional
components of said target punk's car isn't of great concern.

Call it The Rapper Zapper.

I'm picturing a device that would hurl a small projectile, possibly
made of lead (for maximum mass and small size). A guiding tube would
allow accurate aiming. Motive power might be a small controlled
explosion? This could cause considerable damage in a strictly
localised area.

Of course, the possbilities for misuse would make such a device
illegal, or at least subject to strict control, in any civilised
society.

 

[Arny Krueger]

No chance someone like that is listening to broadcast radio. There's
nothing covert you could build that wouldn't damage people too.

Three letters: EMP.

The trick is to focus it on just the target.

 

[Arny Krueger]

Bullshit. The antennas rotate, but the elevation is fixed.

The magic word is "tracking". You're thinking of an acquisition radar. Aq
radars just rotate.

Tracking radar antennas move in both elevation and azimuth, for pretty
obvious reasons.

Tracking radars are more likely to run in X band, for many technical
reasons. In the past, police radars have run on X band.

Tracking radars are powerful enough that they have special technical
features that keep them from burning themselves out, if you catch my drift.

In my Army days I maintained both aq and track radars. Our trackers radiated
more continuous energy than any other radar on site, so much so that each of
the two trackers had its own very large trailer-mounted generator when
operated in the field. At the Miami site I worked, some young operators
used the trackers to roast land crabs.

 

[Arny Krueger]

I bet it was sufficiently nondiscriminatory at the receiving end to
burn out the cop's front end, too.

When people talk about megawatt radars, they are talking pulse peak powers.
Radar pulses are very narrow - less than a microsecond. However, its peak
voltage that usually frys semiconductors.

If these megawatt-rated radars were not sending out short pulses, but
continuous power, they'd have to build a commerical electrical generating
plant next to them to run them in the field.

 

[krw]

It would me, a lot! CNN wouldn't get its jollies by covering "high-
speed" chases (e.g.. OJ).

Par a noid.

Tin_foil_hat class.

 

[krw]

I'm picturing a device that would hurl a small projectile, possibly
made of lead (for maximum mass and small size). A guiding tube would
allow accurate aiming. Motive power might be a small controlled
explosion? This could cause considerable damage in a strictly
localised area.

Of course, the possbilities for misuse would make such a device
illegal, or at least subject to strict control, in any civilised
society.

Nah, unlike Yourup, a civilized society wouldn't dream of controlling
such a useful tool. Unless by "control" you mean limiting damage to
the intended area.

 

[[email protected]]

Do you really think any of these antiques are still in use?

The US retired all its Nike sites in the mid 70's.

Taiwan was using Nike until 1997 and Greece was using it until 2004.

I have no idea of the current status of Turkey, Italy, and South
Korea, but all were using it in 2000.

The whole system was upgraded in the 70's and all the tube based
stuff replaced with solid state.

Late '60s? the police used real garbage, with an unprotected 1N23
type diode in the horn as a mixer. Just touching the element in the
horn would blow those diodes. Hell, a UHF ham radio transmitter would
take them out, at well under a kilowatt. The front end diodes were
shipped, wrapped in a thick layer of lead foil. I think I still have a
couple Western Electric surplus around, somewhere.

Yep, that's why we could blow them from so far away.

Sure. If they knew what caused it, you would have spent at least
five years in Leavenworth.

They obviously knew what caused it.

What they didn't know and couldn't prove was that it was anything
other than a routine maintenance operation.

And since we had guys with guns to make sure nobody wandered into
the IFC operational area, there is no way they could snoop around.

Toy? they were used a Carin Airfield, just a few miles from Ft
Rucker Alabama, for the US Army helicopter and US Air Force Air Traffic
Controller schools. 2 million watts is not a toy. It had a 200 mile
maximum range, and was built by Westinghouse. two complete, hot systems
that could be switched over at the flip of a switch, if there was any
problems. Five techs on duty, 24/7 doing routine maintenance, and
emergency repairs. If they went down, two schools and 17 airfields were
shut down to all non instrument rated pilots.

A mere 2 MW?

A Nike LOPAR is 1 MW, ABAR is 5 MW, HIPAR 10.4 MW.

A Nike site always had a LOPAR and either an ABAR or a HIPAR depending
on the particulars of the site.

A hot site had 5 radars going at one time.

A shit duty on a Nike site was to go into the HIPAR dome and get rid
of the bird bodies inside and sweep them up from the outside. Birds
only got close the the HIPAR once.

The Michigan site I was on was not supposed to run the HIPAR other than
into the dummy load unless there was a "situation" as it wiped out
Detroit's ATC radar 50 miles away.

A Nike site had about 50 people and was manned 24/7. Sites in places
like Korea had a infantry company for "guard duty".

My radar is bigger than your radar.

 

[[email protected]]

When people talk about megawatt radars, they are talking pulse peak powers.
Radar pulses are very narrow - less than a microsecond. However, its peak
voltage that usually frys semiconductors.

If these megawatt-rated radars were not sending out short pulses, but
continuous power, they'd have to build a commerical electrical generating
plant next to them to run them in the field.

Nike HIPAR, 10.4 MW, pulse width 6 microseconds.

 

[Paul E. Schoen]

Sitting at a gas station as some backwards baseball cap and saggass
britches wearing kid parks in the fire zone in front of the store with
some fukdamuhfukinniggahbeyotch crap blasting out of his truck for
everyone's entertainment, got me to thinking.

Would it be possible to build a gizmo that could be surreptitiously
aimed at the offending stereo system to fry some crucial components?
It would have to be able to do it on a pretty localized basis without
causing damage to the person aiming the gizmo or innocent bystanders
or their car's electronics. Whether it would fry any additional
components of said target punk's car isn't of great concern.

Call it The Rapper Zapper.

Just wonderin'.

I saw a device called "The Mosquito", that emits high frequency audio noise
that can be heard by most young people, and not so much by more mature
adults. These devices can be installed where these punks hang out, and
eventually they find it irritating enough to move on to some other place.
Probably such a device with power great enough, and a focused speaker,
could be directed at the miscreant and make him very uncomfortable.

Another possibility is a similar focused sound transmitter that would very
loudly play Opera, or Polka. Even better, mix the two together and really
scramble the few remaining brain cells of the offender. Have an automatic
volume control to set the transmitted sound level to be proportional to
that detected. Probably 140 db of Kathleen Battle and Happy Louie would do
the job. And be at least as legal as the offender's subwoofer.

But I'd also want to have backup from my buddies Smith and Wesson!

Paul

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

The US retired all its Nike sites in the mid 70's.

Taiwan was using Nike until 1997 and Greece was using it until 2004.

I have no idea of the current status of Turkey, Italy, and South
Korea, but all were using it in 2000.

The whole system was upgraded in the 70's and all the tube based
stuff replaced with solid state.



Yep, that's why we could blow them from so far away.



They obviously knew what caused it.

What they didn't know and couldn't prove was that it was anything
other than a routine maintenance operation.

Gee, out of band signal rejection is a specification in all receivers
sold to the military, from WWII. I should know, I built a lot of state
of the art telemetry equipment for P, LL, UL and other microwave bands.
One KU band system is aboard the International Space Station as part of
their video, voice channel and data link to NASA.

And since we had guys with guns to make sure nobody wandered into
the IFC operational area, there is no way they could snoop around.



A mere 2 MW?

A Nike LOPAR is 1 MW, ABAR is 5 MW, HIPAR 10.4 MW.

I'll bet the antenna gain was much higher at our site, giving about
the same EIRP.

A Nike site always had a LOPAR and either an ABAR or a HIPAR depending
on the particulars of the site.

A hot site had 5 radars going at one time.

Another sign of old equipment pushed past its capabilities.

A shit duty on a Nike site was to go into the HIPAR dome and get rid
of the bird bodies inside and sweep them up from the outside. Birds
only got close the the HIPAR once.

Sigh, we didn't need no stinkin' dome, but there were plenty of birds
laying in the parking lots. They needed to replace the main bearing
once. The crane could barely lift it high enough to swap the bearings.

The Michigan site I was on was not supposed to run the HIPAR other than
into the dummy load unless there was a "situation" as it wiped out
Detroit's ATC radar 50 miles away.

A Nike site had about 50 people and was manned 24/7.

So? All that means is that your equipment was older and needed more
support.

Sites in places like Korea had a infantry company for "guard duty".

You didn't need a company to guard a RADAR site inside the US,
dingledorf.

My radar is bigger than your radar.

Neither of owned those RADAR systems.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

It would me, a lot! CNN wouldn't get its jollies by covering "high-
speed" chases (e.g.. OJ).

Tin_foil_hat class.

Held in place by cement coated staples?


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

I'm picturing a device that would hurl a small projectile, possibly
made of lead (for maximum mass and small size). A guiding tube would
allow accurate aiming. Motive power might be a small controlled
explosion? This could cause considerable damage in a strictly
localised area.

Of course, the possbilities for misuse would make such a device
illegal, or at least subject to strict control, in any civilised
society.

Wimp! Be a man and use a M-72. Does wonders to touch up those cheesy
flame paint jobs on their rust buckets, too.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Torrey Hills]

Sitting at a gas station as some backwards baseball cap and saggass
britches wearing kid parks in the fire zone in front of the store with
some fukdamuhfukinniggahbeyotch crap blasting out of his truck for
everyone's entertainment, got me to thinking.

Would it be possible to build a gizmo that could be surreptitiously
aimed at the offending stereo system to fry some crucial components?
It would have to be able to do it on a pretty localized basis without
causing damage to the person aiming the gizmo or innocent bystanders
or their car's electronics. Whether it would fry any additional
components of said target punk's car isn't of great concern.

Call it The Rapper Zapper.

Just wonderin'.

It is technically possible by using noise cancellation technology. Of
course, who is willing to pay.

Ken


Opportunities are never lost. The other fellow takes those you miss.


| Torrey Hills Technologies, LLC |
| www.threerollmill.com |
| www.torreyhillstech.com |

 

[Uncle Al]

Sitting at a gas station as some backwards baseball cap and saggass
britches wearing kid parks in the fire zone in front of the store with
some fukdamuhfukinniggahbeyotch crap blasting out of his truck for
everyone's entertainment, got me to thinking.

Would it be possible to build a gizmo that could be surreptitiously
aimed at the offending stereo system to fry some crucial components?
It would have to be able to do it on a pretty localized basis without
causing damage to the person aiming the gizmo or innocent bystanders
or their car's electronics. Whether it would fry any additional
components of said target punk's car isn't of great concern.

Call it The Rapper Zapper.

Just wonderin'.

Big woofers, small testicles. You'd be arrested for malicious
destruction of property.

 

[[email protected]]

Gee, out of band signal rejection is a specification in all receivers
sold to the military, from WWII. I should know, I built a lot of state
of the art telemetry equipment for P, LL, UL and other microwave bands.
One KU band system is aboard the International Space Station as part of
their video, voice channel and data link to NASA.

Out of band signal rejection is one thing, being in the main beam
of a 44 db gain antenna of a high powered radar is another.

I'll bet the antenna gain was much higher at our site, giving about
the same EIRP.

And you would probably lose the bet.

LOPAR 32 db cosecant squared.
HIPAR 29 db cosecant squared.

There were three different models of the ABAR; I don't remember the specs.

The target track, which is what was usually used for games was 250 kW
with an antenna gain of 44 db; you figure the ERP.

Another sign of old equipment pushed past its capabilities.

Another sign you are blowing smoke out your ass.

TTR - Target track radar; tracked the target

TRR - Target range radar; tracked the target in range in ECM, frequency
agile to defeat ECM, elevation and azimuth provided by the ECM source

MTR - Missle track radar; tracked the missle in flight

LOPAR - Short range acquistion radar; used to monitor the engagement range

ABAR and HIPAR - Long range acquistion radar; used to detect targets outside
the engagement range.

Five radars to do five different things all at once.

Sigh, we didn't need no stinkin' dome, but there were plenty of birds
laying in the parking lots. They needed to replace the main bearing
once. The crane could barely lift it high enough to swap the bearings.

Ooooh, I'm impressed.

So? All that means is that your equipment was older and needed more
support.

No, it means there was more equipment and a site was totally self contained.

You didn't need a company to guard a RADAR site inside the US,
dingledorf.

Last I checked, Korea isn't inside the US, moron and the sites like
your's in Korea didn't have an infantry company either.

Neither of owned those RADAR systems.

The Battery Commander may have held the paper, but the Maintenance
Chief, which I was, for all intents and purposes owned the system
as much as any piece of issued military equipment can be owned.

 

[Dan]

No chance someone like that is listening to broadcast radio. There's nothing
covert you could build that wouldn't damage people too.

How you you triangulate on a signal since radio/cd/digital player is not
a transmitter?

 

[Dan]

Three letters: EMP.

The trick is to focus it on just the target.

But you would also fry ALL the electronics around that car. Big lawsuit
potential. Better to just let them go deaf.