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Cost of a Traffic Signal ??

Discussion in 'Electronic Design' started by Jim Thompson, Dec 3, 2003.

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  1. Jim Thompson

    Jim Thompson Guest

    I have a "T" intersection near my house.

    The "cross" of the "T" has right-of-way with a speed limit of 55, but
    usual speeds are 70:

    E<--------------->W (Pecos Road)
    |<>-(stop sign)
    |
    | (Desert Foothills)

    View to the west is blind due to a slightly rising hill.

    Traffic density on Pecos has recently increased dramatically due to a
    new freeway section opening several miles to the east.

    I have been harping at the city to do something about this unsafe
    intersection but was told basically "tough, you're not getting a
    traffic light anytime soon and they don't put stop signs on feeders",
    but he'd grace my complaint by repainting the white front-edge stripe
    (done last Tuesday or Wednesday) and would trim the trees to the west.

    Friday night a woman died in an accident there when she was T-boned
    trying to get onto Pecos eastbound from Desert Foothills.

    My question: What does it cost (purchase and install) for a traffic
    light?

    I'm going to suggest that the family sue the city for 100X the cost of
    a traffic light.

    ...Jim Thompson
     
  2. Fred Bloggs

    Fred Bloggs Guest

    The usual approach is to do a "REDUCED SPEED LIMIT" to say 35-45MPH on
    Pecos in the vicinity of that intersection with possible flashing
    CAUTION sign on both sides. If you have a record of making the city
    aware of the problem then I would say they're doubly in for it.
     
  3. A quick google search leads me to think that it's around 100-125K. So,
    around $10M-12M.

    http://www.thecommondenominator.com/021003_taking.html VA 100K
    http://www.ci.carmel.in.us/government/newsrelease/hazeldell2.html IN
    124K


    Best regards,
    Spehro Pefhany
     
  4. John Hall

    John Hall Guest

    A few years ago, I read the average cost in Calgary (urban
    environment) was about Cdn$50,000.

    I was living in a very traffic-congested area, and they installed a
    new one that I suspected would not make much difference. It didn't, in
    my experience. Previously I could usually negotiate my way into the
    apartment complex through the stalled traffic. The light made it
    slightly easier, and thus perhaps safer, but I don't recall seeing any
    collisions there in about four years, and if there were they would
    probably not cause serious injury.

    I think the traffic planners have two aims in deciding where to
    install lights - collision reduction and improved traffic flow.
    Sometimes a light can help with both of these, though they are
    sometimes orthogonal. Both camps ('citizens for better flow' &
    'citizens for better safety') are making apparently good cases for
    resources, and it can be difficult to prioritize fairly.

    I did discuss one situation with them, and they adjusted a left filter
    timing in the morning peak, which did improve things (flow). I was
    quite impressed with their reasoning against my original proposal (on
    safety grounds), and their alternative suggestion.
     
  5. Baphomet

    Baphomet Guest

    Jim -

    By any chance, did you send in your complaint registered mail return receipt
    requested? I believe that the way most local jurisdictions work is that they
    assume liability, once a complaint has been "officially" registered.
     
  6. Jim Thompson

    Jim Thompson Guest

    I sent it by E-mail to my city councilman, who acknowledged it and
    said he would have the traffic department call me. They did call but
    fluffed me off... *not* a good thing to do to the masked avenger ;-)

    ...Jim Thompson
     
  7. Mike

    Mike Guest

    Isn't there a presumed assumption, in a legal sense, that roads and related
    infrastructure are inherently dangerous, and that safety is the
    responsibility of the driver?

    -- Mike --
     
  8. Jim Thompson

    Jim Thompson Guest

    True. But the city has been previously advised that the intersection
    has hazards that can be alleviated.

    ...Jim Thompson
     
  9. Mjolinor

    Mjolinor Guest

    All hazards can be alleviated, that doesn't mean it makes sense to do it. I
    for one would not like a man in front of my car with a red flag but it would
    certainly stop most of the fatalities.
     
  10. Baphomet

    Baphomet Guest

    Absolutely, but let's take an extreme example of a sinkhole opening up in
    the middle of the street. In most local jurisdictions, once they have been
    officially notified, and that usually requires it to be sent snail mail
    registered return receipt (no e-mail need apply), any injuries that accrue
    due to the localities negligence in performing a timely repair, become
    actionable.

    In this particular case where an improvement is being sought for safety
    reasons, I suspect that you would have to have sufficient documentation as
    to a history of previous accidents or near accidents. Then it should
    probably be presented to the Planning Board for their consideration. They
    forward their findings to the village/town/city board who give it a thumbs
    up or down and then pass it on to the Department of Transportation for their
    consideration. They are normally very cooperative when a proposal has the
    imprimatur of local government.

    Proper procedure (and I'm sure it varies somewhat from jurisdiction to
    jurisdiction) should be followed so as to allow a minimum of wiggle room for
    the bureaucrats to two step their way out of.
     
  11. Baphomet

    Baphomet Guest

    Unfortunately, stupidity (the biggest hazard of them all) doesn't lend
    itself easily to legislation.
     
  12. There are also budget issues. It might be nice to get rid of 100% of
    all railway level crossings, but it would cost too much for taxpayers.
    So they pick what they think are the most dangerous crossings and put
    the $millions each into upgrading those first. Aside from the capital
    cost, they require maintenance and eventual replacement. At some point
    they do have to put a value on a life- if it's going to cost $5M to
    upgrade the crossing and one person on average will be killed every 5
    years, in a place with an average income of $xxK, maybe it won't get
    done.

    A hotel I stayed at recently (in Indiana) was located on a service
    road beside the interstate. The service road had absolutely no
    lighting and ran dead-straight parallel to the interstate until it
    made a sudden unusually sharp and poorly marked right turn to curve
    down and intersect the cross street. The cross street was somewhat
    elevated and shielded by earth etc. so you could not see traffic there
    as an indicator. There were five or six different shrines to dead
    motorists at the sharp bend.

    Best regards,
    Spehro Pefhany
     
  13. Luhan Monat

    Luhan Monat Guest

    Jim,

    A friend of mine tried the same thing in Santa Barbara/CA. She was
    finally told that it would take 10 major accidents (or 3 deaths) before
    the city would consider puttinging in a traffic signal. That is the
    'cost' of putting in a traffic signal in California!
     
  14. Ross Mac

    Ross Mac Guest

    Luhan, you got it...I'm in California too and after several fatalies they
    get serious. There used to be a mountain intersection up on Hwy 17 that
    connects silicon valley to Santa Cruz. It wasn't until a carload of people,
    a mother and her 2 kids was obliterated by a 80,000 lb big rig full of sand
    that they put in an overpass. And that was not the only fatality. Of course,
    the taxpayers in California, are too busy paying for soundwalls and
    overpriced utility commodities to solve problems that cause fatalities!
     
  15. Ross Mac

    Ross Mac Guest

    Oh, by the way, they named the bridge after the dead women...California
    politics in action....Arnie has his hands full with this mess!!!
     
  16. Genome

    Genome Guest

    Congratulations.....

    I, otherwise known as the one who is using the keyboard at the moment, seem
    to remember that the other one, who is not using the keyboard at the moment
    remembers that one, or multiple ones, of your siblings entered the legal
    profession, or became accountants. The other one tells me you appeared to be
    quite proud about their 'achievements'.

    Why not ask them....?

    It is interesting to consider the fact that 'Old Folks' used 'the system' to
    benefit themselves when they were 'Young Folks'. Now they are 'Old Folks'
    they have a sudden desire to manipulate the system to........ benefit
    themselves.

    And then they moan about it.

    Be a true altruist or, shut the **** up.

    DNA
     
  17. DNA: Altruism is Evil. Haven't you gotten your dose of Ayn Rand?

    Best regards,
    Spehro Pefhany
     
  18. Jim Thompson

    Jim Thompson Guest

    DNA/Genome/Whatever is nonexistent in my world.

    Everyone should do likewise.

    ...Jim Thompson
     
  19. Genome

    Genome Guest

    That's why I'm easy...... oh oh oh oh,
    I'm easy like Sunday morning........

    Two birds.....

    DNA
     
  20. DarkMatter

    DarkMatter Guest


    The light and controller could be around $100k. Installing it,
    probably twice that, at the rate our illustrious government gold
    bricker fucks bill the shit out.

    It took 30 years and several deaths for them to do this at an
    intersection in northern greater Cincinnati.

    They cut away 40 feet of elevation on the hill approach, however.

    It was a 55 changing into a forty 300 feet before the light even,
    and the shit STILL happened. Flashing red on Pippin, flashing yellow
    on Kemper... still no change.

    Cost? Probably booked it at a couple million... the bastards. Had
    they done it back when it was needed, several people would still be
    here, and the cost would have been several hundred k$ less, I'm sure.
    If not more.

    What gets me is that business, and people pay exorbitant taxes, and
    these bastards make $100k plus salaries to NOT get their fucking job
    done!

    The fucking streets should be paved in gold by now, and schools too!
    The bastard suck away millions in perks, for NO WORK DONE!

    They suck away millions more in lottery "earnings" and the schools
    STILL suck!

    I want the same exact constitution and government we have, with an
    entirely different crew doing it, and doing it for LESS pay than is
    the current level. The lame assed NON-stateman pricks have
    practically tripled their salaries in the last ten years.

    That's pretty goddamned lame, considering their lackluster
    performances.

    We should scrutinize the bastards MORE. We have been complacent too
    fucking long. People are stupid.

    This great, claims to be "intelligent" state of California elected
    Ahhnohld. Proof that even smart people can be utter retards.
    And utter retards can be thwarted into the limelight and the master
    button box based on image alone.

    I hope he fails as a lesson to retards that claim to be smart
    everywhere.
     
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