Maker Pro
Maker Pro

Copper theft

The war between the Sunnis and Shiites has been going on for
centuries. Does anyone really think we will resolve it?
This isn't Japan ... or Germany. If you want a parallel for the
situation look at Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia. When we leave there will
be a bloodbath, whether that is 10 years from now or tomorrow.

Civil war inevitable? Possibly. There were also factions in
post-war Japan, and "insurgents" who continued fighting after WWII was
over in Europe, but we stayed.

Ultimately the Iraqis are the only ones who can solve their problems,
but we can give them some of the tools. Presently they're a nation
beset by terrorism, with little means to resist. We owe them at least
enough time and training to give them a fighting chance.

Best,
James Arthur
 
K

Ken Smith

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ken Smith wrote: [....]
You need to go back and read the site again if that's all you found.
There very first item I looked at had this:

**** Begin quote ****
"I would urge [...] [E]mergency continuation of trade benefits to Haiti,
African and other developing countries is more important than politics.
****
Note that he is suggesting an action and refering to the lack of a
previous action.

Urging a particular vote on an obscure measure

It is only obscure to those who weren't following the issue. He is
suggesting an action and stating a level of importance. Those following
the argument would know both sides of the issue.

[....]
I'm sorry, but trade incentives to Haiti just isn't one of the
defining issues of our time, where the Democrats are conspicuously
absent.

The trade policy with respect to Haiti is a very important issue with
respect to how the US is seen from the outside world and specifically in
the developing world. Since a large part of the problem the US has with
terrorists spings from the developing world, the US overlooks this issue
to it peril.

But I need to hear it, because I don't see how adding more overseers
will reduce our trade deficit,

If people are not doing their jobs, this is the reason to appoint more
overseers. He is making the charge that they are not doing their jobs by
implication.

[....]
In short, this list of picayune "accomplishments,"

The Republicans have complete control. There will be no accomplishments
without their agreement and the Republicans do not agree.

But we don't need to "take steps forward"

Yes, you do need to make that step forward. If you are running a Taxi
company that is losing money because one of the drivers keeps crashing the
cars, you fire that driver so he can't crash more cars and then you set
about fixing the cars. While Rumsfeld is still in place, he will keep
screwing things up faster than they can be fixed.

good measure. The question is: once you've fired Rumsfeld, what is it
that you'd have his successor do? Democrats need to explain *that*.
Propose what we should do differently, if anything--that would be most
helpful.

Murtha dis suggest what to do different. He got misquoted and
mischaracterized in the media but there is one example. Several
democrats have suggested increasing number of peope in Iraq and
concentrating on restoring infrastructure.
Selecting a whipping boy fixes nothing.

But getting rid of the guy who is messing things up prevents, or at least
reduces the odds of, further problems that need to solve.
Is the logic "We're in a war
so--let's fight with each other?

No, the logic is: we are in a war that was a bad idea badly implemented
that is still being poorly run so lets get rid of the guy who has made the
long list of mistakes.
Fire Rummie and the insurgents will
quit?

No, we will only have the insurgents to worry about not more screw ups by
Rummy.
Encourage the enemy by telling him we're fickle, undisciplined
and impatient, and will leave when the fancy passes?"

No, "scare the pant off them" by making it look like we finally will set
politics aside and put someone competent in charge on our side.
I didn't hear it,

How the heck could you miss it? It was all over the news or at least the
mischaracterization was all over the news. His actual statement was in a
few places.

[...]
I understood Murtha's position to be that Iraqis should be abandoned
to their own fate.

No, that is what the Neocon spinners called it among other things. His
idea was to remove the irratent of what looks like an American ocupation
but continue to support the elected government.
That's immoral.

It was not his position, but consider the idea that there will be a blood
bath when the US leaves and the later it happens to more blood. In that
case pulling out sooner reduces the number of dead Iraqies. If US doesn't
institute a draft or increase the pay and troop levels, eventually, the US
will have to pull out. The Republicans have refused to give army the
budget they feel they need to maintain the war.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/na...,1359119.story?coll=bal-nationworld-headlines

The result will be that the US will have to pull out or leave the nation
unprotected against other threats.

[....]
Maybe, but I sure couldn't tell you what. What I see is Democrats
spuriously criticising the President for gasoline prices (which he
can't control)

But he said he could when he was running for office and I predict he will
take credit when they do come down.

, for the economy (calling it bad when it isn't)

The US is engaged in record levels of deficit spending and has low
interest rates. These both stimulate the economy. It is like pushing the
gas pedal on your car all the way to the floor and thinking that getting
up to 45 MPH is good. It may be faster than you can walk but you would
still know there was something wrong with the car.

I see a determination to resist the President in everything, which is
too bad. Resist when he's wrong, but concur when he's right, or you
lose credibility. Don't waste it.

That is in fact what they have been doing. Only the cases when they
resist make the news. "Today there was no car wreck at the intersection
of First and Main" is never reported in the news.

Meanwhile, government spending is increasing at a compound rate
greater than 7%. I've heard Democrats complain about this (rightly),
except their criticism is that it isn't enough!

I have seen them complain that it is too much and seriously misdirected
and that no where near enough is being spent on the troops. They aren't
all singing from the same sheet.
Have you seen the No Child Left Behind (NCLB) scores from New York
city?

It is an unfunded mandate. NCLB also works against teaching things that
can't be tested with a multiple choice. Geometry classed no longer
include the issue of proofs. A big part of the reason for teaching
geometry was to teach critical thinking skills. These are no longer being
taught.

They're appalling -- we're in danger of becoming a dumb-ocracy.
*This* is a real problem that needs real solution--and not just more
money. Dumping money won't fix it--we've been doing that.

Actually, no you haven't been dumping money in. You've been taking money
from other places and moving it there. The result is a bunch of kids that
think getting the right answers on a test is the goal.

Now retired, former Federal Reserve chief Greenspan warns that
Medicare, not Social Security,

"Now"?????!!!!!! That has been known for years. The Republicans have
discredited themselves on the Social Security reform they attempted so now
they can't touch Medicare.

[...]
I see no mess.

You have blinders on.
The economy is great.

No it isn't see above.
The war is expensive,

And will get more so before it gets less so.
but
militarily brilliant.

No, it is a collection of blunders.

It *is* an experiment in a more limited warfare,
wherein innocents are spared the brunt of their fate in more usual
wars.

See Vietnam for the previous "experiment".
That may be ill-advised, but the criticisms I see from Democrats
is that the war isn't limited enough

The war was purely optional. It did have to happen at all. Now that you
are in anything less than winning it is a defeat. The Neocons have set
the US up to loose.
 
H

Homer J Simpson

Jan 1, 1970
0
The war between the Sunnis and Shiites has been going on for
centuries. Does anyone really think we will resolve it?
This isn't Japan ... or Germany. If you want a parallel for the
situation look at Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia. When we leave there will
be a bloodbath, whether that is 10 years from now or tomorrow.

I can't get over what a dumb bunch of f*cks the Cheney group is. Even Rice
is less smart than she seems to be at first impression and she may be the
smartest. They remind me of America's Funniest Videos - a bunch of fools who
thought it would be easy to move the septic tank without draining it first
and now can't figure out how to get out of the crap pile. Only it isn't
funny and it isn't them in the crap pile.

Murtha is the only one with a half assed good idea.
 
Civil war inevitable? Possibly. There were also factions in
post-war Japan, and "insurgents" who continued fighting after WWII was
over in Europe, but we stayed.



There was never any significant insurgengy in Japan or Germany.
Totally different cultures.
These people in the middle east were fighting since the Romans left.
They will be fighting long after we leave.
Let the big dog eat and we will buy the oil from him.
 
Top