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converting 2.4 gig wifi to baseband signal.

Discussion in 'Radio and Wireless' started by johan greene, Dec 1, 2016.

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  1. johan greene

    johan greene

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    Dec 1, 2016
    simply need to know how to do it with an ic. more specifically, what ic. ive seen a bunch listed. most are cost effective. huge range in specs. so i need someone who knows how to do this and has done this to check my progress. im asking that anyone that does not know or has never done please dont post to this thread!!! please. i dont want this topic to have all kinds of input that has nothing to do with demodulating a 2.4 gig wifi. if you do know about this and/or have done it. please say whatever you want. love to hear from you.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 1, 2016
  2. Gryd3

    Gryd3

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    More details required please.
    Are you attempting to convert any/all 2.4GHz signals, or only specific kinds?

    There are a lot of WiFi standards out there that operate on 2.4GHz.
    Take a look at 802.11b/g/n standards.
     
  3. johan greene

    johan greene

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    Dec 1, 2016
    yes just 2.4 gig wifi. signal. what standard. i was hoping all at 2.4. if i had to pick just one standard id probably go with pre-n is that viable? or just n if that simplifies it somehow. i know not alot of gear is pre-n. but also too an n card will work with any previous standard. is that only becouse it has the ability to switch to previous standards? but either way ya if i have to pick id go with wireless n or pre-n.


    please leave my posts alone moderators!

    i have not said a single word that was out of line!

    "when someone tells you it can't be done, its more a reflection of their limitations not yours!"
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2016
  4. Harald Kapp

    Harald Kapp Moderator Moderator

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    I have to say with the limited knowledge you've shown I strongly doubt you will be able to develop a WiFi receiver from scratch, even using a highly integrated chip.
    I recommend you look for an off the shelf module, e,g, one using the popular ESP8266 chip.

    You have also not shown insight into your deficiencies and you haven't answered many of the questions that were asked in your other thread nor have you elaborated on the proposals that have been made. All we've seen is you insisting on that 2.4Ghz to 63MHz mixdown scenario not taking into account any of the caveats that were posted by other members of this forum.
     
    davenn likes this.
  5. davenn

    davenn Moderator

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    if you continue to criticise, you are NOT going to last much longer
     
  6. johan greene

    johan greene

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    Dec 1, 2016
    ok agian lots of ppl talking about nothing to do with converting a 2.4 ghz signal. i asked everyone nicely not to post here unless it was in reference to my post. as it should be! i dont think either of you know the answer so could you please stop bothering me. im seriously asking nicely. its a simple question and the more i read the more i see its already been done and is done commonly. i might be mistaken but i dont think i am. seems like i just need someone that is familiar with doing this to help me. not you guys ok? please. just stop and where good.
     
  7. davenn

    davenn Moderator

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    that's good

    hope you achieve what you want to do :)
     
  8. johan greene

    johan greene

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    Dec 1, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2016
  9. Harald Kapp

    Harald Kapp Moderator Moderator

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    Again, as in your 1st thread, this is a modulator, not a demodulator. It will not help you down-converting from 2.4 GHz.
    It's called a WiFi router...
    Or use a module , see my post #4.

    And again, as I mentioned in my post, you do not respond to the proposals being made. All you do is tell us 'no, that's not what I want'.
     
  10. (*steve*)

    (*steve*) ¡sǝpodᴉʇuɐ ǝɥʇ ɹɐǝɥd Moderator

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    In addition to what Harald said, that chip doesn't operate at 63MHz.

    I was hoping the datasheet would tell me what you are trying to do, but I'm still uncertain.

    Please continue to give us updates on your progress. I hope to figure out what you're doing someday.
     
  11. johan greene

    johan greene

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    Dec 1, 2016
    atm im simply trying to do what the title says. no offence. im seriously glad your interested in helping! i figure if i can accomplish that ill go from there. i haven't really done a lot of research (hour max) on modulation of the multiple base band signals.i will though and according to harald once demodulated i will have multiple base band signals. so ya can we just focus on this one simple task. its a bit advanced for me and well go from there and then ill focus more or converting those same base band signals to output a usable low freq. signal. does not have to be right at 63 MHz and when i mess up on the way i say 63 MHz im refering to the range that channels 2-6 are currently in the u.s. i think its 2-6. ok i think i typed it correctly this time. ya does not have to be right at 63 MHz but that is a range that i like. lower freq then 2.4 by far. much less attenuation. only question i think. is will i be able to get a decent transfer rate. my output im thinking will be 20 MHz wide. broadband. pretty sure at 2.4 its the same width? well find out! could i make the bandwidth even larger? thats anouther thing ill get to later. thanks in advance!
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2016
  12. johan greene

    johan greene

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    Dec 1, 2016
    and harald! i didnt see your post im soo sorry. im typing more... ok i did hear you the first time. i just didnt see your most recent post on this thread. maybe im just not getting it. my impresion is you want to either

    1) link the two access point via fiber. i dont want that. no offence.
    2)use a low freq rf signal to link the two and i said thats what im trying to do?

    i quote... maybe not verbatim. i said how is this any different then what im trying to
    do? i gotta go over what you wrote agian ill be right back

    "Get long range intemediate communication pair (e.g. based on biber optic or lower frequency radio).
    - Connect theone router to one end of the long range transmission, the other router to the other end
    - Setup the device parameters such that the routers efffectively create a long range WiFinetwork.\"

    nvm who said what this is the part i want to talk about.



    i guess i understand your suggestion but im thinking now and was then there is no way to
    "setup the device parameters" the device i assume is the router. is there a way to get a common lowly router to output a low frew signal? if so plz do tell sounds to easy and not possible. sorry i didn't pay more attention to this the first time! i must not be understanding you correctly

    and harald if i came off that way im truly sorry. i think i was just hearing a lot of friction and started blocking things out. my apologies. all along im thinking you know more about this then anyone here but are not saying. maybe your right maybe i just wasn't listening.

    i will say this though in my defence you did come down on me real hard at least i felt you did ok?
    im not bitter about it. heck i could use your insight!

    i did just have a light bulb go off in my head thanks to you. when a cable modem picks up the signal its a signal i do know pretty well. comes into the modem thru a coax cable. forward signal is normally a bit higher to avoid the noise floor. digital. came in on the coax-fiber hybrid plant i used to maintain at around 400 MHz. return is a low freq. so the modems can push the signal back to the head end with not much db output or amplification. small module inside the amp. so hrm that same device... also outputs a 2.4 wifi. wow! can we do it? seems like it would be in reverse is my first thought and, i kinda would like to build this thing. i've taking a real liking to building electronics from scratch. its a lot of fun! but don't get me wrong i want to know about this too!
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2016
  13. Harald Kapp

    Harald Kapp Moderator Moderator

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    I don't think so.
    You'll have the router (or a module as posted) to extract the data stream from teh WiFi signal, then use this data to modulate your proprietary 63MHz signal. On the receiver side, demodulatethe 63 MHz signal to extract the data stream, then use another router (module) to modulate the data onto a WiFi signal.

    Be aware that the WiFi signal is not only about modulating data onto a carrier, like e.g. for radio transmission. Wifi includes a protocol to synchronize transmittter and receiver with respect to the protocol, slection of radio channels, signal strength and last not least access control (WiFi networl name and password). This is what 'setup teh device parameters' is all about.
     
  14. johan greene

    johan greene

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    Dec 1, 2016
    would you use a micro controller or an encoder? and do you have a particular one in mind? id love to see it!

    harald i wanna say thanks alot for your input. im very passionate about this project and, have been for some time. just now set up with a real electronics workbench and have finally built enough devices. ya know radios. amps. Bluetooth stuff. so im really excited about putting this new basic knowledge to the test. id love to pm you about why i feel this could be useful in the future as well. i think you might find it interesting. oh and i hope im not way off base i assume im going to need a micro controller or an encoder. thats the only two ways i can think of that you can transfer data to rf?
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2016
  15. johan greene

    johan greene

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    Dec 1, 2016
    harald when you get time i would love to hear back from you!
     
  16. Harald Kapp

    Harald Kapp Moderator Moderator

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    You cannot simply encode/decode a signal for use as WiFi.
    WiFi is a technology that creates a wireles network to transmit data wirelessly. This includes, but is not limited to:
    - selection of radio channels (frequency)
    - setting up a network name
    - controlling access to the WiFi network
    - encypting data to prevent taampering
    - last not least performing the function of routing data from e.g an Ethernet based medium across the WiFi network to another e.g. Ethernet based participant. Instead of Ethernet USB or any other data transmission scheme is possible - in theory.
    This is completely different from simply modulating a carrier by a lower frequency signal as is done in e.g. AM or FM radio transmission! You really need to understand this difference.
    Neither a mcirocontroller nor an encoder/decoder alone will serve for this purpose. You will need a full WiFi router at both ends. Typically the router will offer the data as an Ethernet based stream on an RJ45 receptacle.
    You will then have to build your own transmitter and receiver based on a microcontroller that can communicate via Ethernet on the wire based side (to the router) and any other medium, e.g. the 63 MHz as envisioned by your scheme to the other end of your transmission link.
    This may all be possible to do, but it requires definitely more skills and understanding than I have seen from your previous responses.

    I strongly think that using standard WiFi routers with additional high gain antenna is your best choice.
     
    Ian and davenn like this.
  17. davenn

    davenn Moderator

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    awesome post Harald
    it pretty much covers all the issues


    Dave
     
  18. johan greene

    johan greene

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    Dec 1, 2016
    w/e harald i got this now. actually mostly thanks to you. while i waited i took what you told me and learned! no i didn't know half of what i needed to going in to this.. confident this is what forums are intended for. its a common problem i have posted on forums before. ppl around to help but they mostly just want to well i wont say so this does not get locked. its not becoming behavior to talk to a man 40yrs old with a 149 iq like his an ignorant child lets put it that way. however i do appreciate your insight and what your doing. helping ppl. just plz don't make it so painful for ppl to learn from you guys. that is you too davenn. but really though. thanks i could ask every person that lives in my town and probably never get the answers you gave me! that part is awsome!.
     
  19. Gryd3

    Gryd3

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    Jun 25, 2014
    IQ and age are irrelevant, and they had brought up good points.
    I can't think of a logical way to accomplish what you want in the way you want to do it.
    If you are dead set on this, I would suggest getting a pair of ESP8266, and a pair of *any* transceivers.
    The tricky part will be that the throughput will be severely limited, so you may have a hard time selectively forwarding packets from the ESP8266 to the other transceiver. If you can figure out how to handle this bottle-neck then you should be able to make some progress.
    Keep in mind, that the data over WiFi is extensive... and the data on a home network can easily be quite high at idle... You will *need* to selectively ignore broadcasts, and various other transmissions, but this method should allow you to ignore 'WiFi' in general once the ESP8266 is connected and allow you to focus on the data being sent.
     
  20. johan greene

    johan greene

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    Dec 1, 2016
    age and iq are irrelevant? i guess thats your opinion.

    "The tricky part will be that the throughput will be severely limited"

    can i not simply increase the bandwidth to compensate? keep in mind i wont be restricted by bandwidth allocations!
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2016
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