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Convert 110v 60Hz to 230v 50Hz

Discussion in 'General Electronics Discussion' started by Rabit, Feb 29, 2016.

Will a 1 kVA convertor supply enough power for 2kW 230v Motor?

  1. Yes, you are on track

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  2. No, you are doing your math wrong

    3 vote(s)
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  1. Rabit

    Rabit

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    Feb 29, 2016
    I am purchasing german made Apple Juicing Equipment and I need a power convertor to run it.

    CONVERTOR: I plan on buying a 1 kVA convertor for $1,300 from this company: http://www.gohz.com/1kva-frequency-converter
    (I called the company, but hard to understand the broken english of the person there.)

    GRINDER: The German equipment I need to run has a 2 kW Motor at 230V 50z. (It grinds apples.)

    A couple of other pieces of equipment have digital temperature controls that regulate heating temperature (low power consumption as the rest of the unit uses "natural gas" as a heating source to pasteurize the juice.)

    My thinking is that my GRINDER needs 8.7 VA and my Convertor supplies 1000 VA so I have a big buffer and life will be good ... or will it ... if you all could help me out I would really appreciate it! Thoughts?
     
  2. Minder

    Minder

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    Apr 24, 2015
    What is the reason for a converter? Your motor will probably run fine on 60Hz just a little faster and slightly lower current.
    It is probably geared down quite a bit also?
    You would just need to install a 15amp 240v outlet which may be simpler than buying a $1300.00 convertor.
    M.
     
    hevans1944 likes this.
  3. Rabit

    Rabit

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    Feb 29, 2016
    I've read other google searches that said also to go with the 240V outlet, but what about the digital controls on the boiler? .... might they not need the 50 hz or will the just possibly be off by X % ... I just don't need to "toast" this equipment ... trying to reduce my fear and possible "toast" error ;-) .... your feedback is much appreciated!
     
  4. Minder

    Minder

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    Apr 24, 2015
    I would imagine any control electronics are all low voltage DC and would be supplied from either a linear or SMPS power, so should not be affected.
    What conditions do the digital controls monitor or control? They may not be frequency sensitive, e.g. thermal etc, the main thing I can see is the motor rpm and also if it has speed control of some kind.
    M.
     
    hevans1944 likes this.
  5. Rabit

    Rabit

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    Feb 29, 2016
    thanks!
     
  6. Alec_t

    Alec_t

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    Jul 7, 2015
    I think you mean 8.7A? A 2kW motor is about 2000VA.
     
  7. Rabit

    Rabit

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    Feb 29, 2016
  8. Alec_t

    Alec_t

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    Jul 7, 2015
    Don't know how you managed that :confused:
    This is what the calculator shows me:
    kW2VA.PNG

    Edit: In reality, the power factor will be something less than 1, e.g. 0.8.
     
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2016
  9. Minder

    Minder

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    Apr 24, 2015
    You said your motor is 2kw that is around 2.5hp
    2000W /240v = 8.3amps.
    Rough guide.
    M.
     
    hevans1944 likes this.
  10. hevans1944

    hevans1944 Hop - AC8NS

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    Jun 21, 2012
    What number (between 0 and 1) did you enter for the power factor? And where did you get that number? It looks like you entered 230 for the power factor. Power factor is always a number between zero and unity. Click on the power factor link on the page you cited for an explanation. The on-line calculator does not give correct answers if you enter power factor numbers outside the range 0 to 1. Worse, it doesn't tell you it is providing an incorrect answer. Moral of the story: learn the theory, do your own math.
     
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2016
  11. Rabit

    Rabit

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    Feb 29, 2016
    Hevans ... Alec_T ... Minder ... thanks for setting me straight and helping me out!! Yup, I put 230 in the equation for the volts ... thought that was power. Yes, 8.3 Amps ... I understand ... or 2000 VA ... but the moral of the story is teamwork ... I'll keep growing apples and making juice for you so that I can use your knowledge of electricity to make them for you .... both my time and your time will be better spent ... and the reward will be higher for us both (.... and we'll let those German's make the equipment I need ...) Either way ... you guys really helped me out!! Much appreciated.
     
  12. hevans1944

    hevans1944 Hop - AC8NS

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    Jun 21, 2012
    @Rabit glad you got some help from people here. If you are still worried about damaging your German apple squeezer, why not send them an e-mail or even write a letter and ask what harm (if any) would come from operating their machine on 220 or 240 VAC, 60 Hz rather than 230 VAC, 50 Hz. As @Minder noted, the motor will run a little faster (and a little more efficiently) on 60 Hz versus 50 Hz, but that shouldn't be a problem grinding apples. BTW, @Minder has considerable experience specifying and installing industrial motors, so I usually take his "advice" as gospel.

    What might be a problem is if one terminal of the motor is connected to a grounded neutral and the other is intended to have 230 VAC applied. In the US, both terminals of a 220 or 240 VAC feed are "hot" with respect to ground, either one providing 110 or 120 VAC with respect to neutral (which is bonded to earth ground at the service entrance). You would need a 2 KVA isolation transformer to allow you take your 110-0-110 (or 120-0-120) VAC feed and translate that to a 220-0 or 240-0 feed, where the 0 terminal is connected to neutral and grounded. If you do need a 2 KVA isolation transformer, you can purchase it with the money you saved by not buying a frequency converter and maybe have enough left over to pay for lunch. Again, it would be prudent to contact the manufacturer to see what they suggest. And perhaps consult a licensed industrial electrician before applying power to anything.

    Another problem might involve digital timers. If present, these timers may use the 50 Hz European power line frequency as a timing reference instead of a built-in crystal oscillator. A 60 Hz feed would make the timers run faster. If this is the case (power line used as a frequency reference), and if the unit is designed for export, there may be a jumper on board somewhere that selects 50 Hz or 60 Hz as the power line frequency, It would not hurt to make an inquiry to the manufacturer about this. OTOH, if there are no digital timing functions, or if an internal crystal oscillator is used for timing reference, then you have no problem.

    BTW, could you please provide the manufacturer and model number of you apple crushing machine?
     
  13. Tha fios agaibh

    Tha fios agaibh

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    Aug 11, 2014
    Grinder motor alone is 2kw. Supply should be sized at least 125% of that.
    The start up current is considerably higher than the motor rating.

    As Hevens1944 said, It's best to consult an electrician to scope out what you have and verify it's safe.
    He may have to tweak fuse sizes, thermal overload settings to suit voltage/freq difference. He will also know the smartest and most cost effective way of setting this up for you.
     
  14. Minder

    Minder

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    Apr 24, 2015
    There should be no difference using and operating equipment designed for the L & N and the N.A. system (L1 L2), the one possible difference is that the present machine may have an internal main fuse in the live conductor only, in N.A. it would have a fuse in both L1/L2.
    .Worst case scenario a fuse could be added, you would have both the service panel breakers in any event.
    M.
     
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