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Composite video out of a flat screen?

Discussion in 'Electronic Repair' started by klem kedidelhopper, Oct 10, 2012.

  1. I think that I know the answer to this one but at the risk of looking
    like a dummy I'll ask anyway. Some time ago a customer left a flat
    screen with me for repair. The short end of it is that I fixed it,
    they never picked it up, so now it's in our bedroom. I can receive the
    three major networks off my antenna and a few other things I can take
    or leave and we're satisfied with that. Naturally they appear in HD,
    (which I can also do without).

    The problem is that we tape all our shows on VCR's to watch later when
    both my wife and I have time. Most sets, and this one is no exception
    have no provision for a composite, S, or any other type of "video
    out".

    Now I reaIize that I can place a converter ahead of the TV, down
    convert to NTSC, Use either channel three RF or AV out, lose my HD and
    accomplish what I'm trying to do, but this is not only an extra added
    expense but a pain in the ass as well.

    Does anyone know if first of all composite video as we've known it for
    the past 75 or so years even exists in a modern flat screen TV, and if
    so is it possible to get it "out of the set? I realize that I'd have
    to employ some type of isolation between the TV and the outside world,
    and I'm sure that I could come up with a way to do that, but I'm just
    asking if this could be possible. Thanks, Lenny
     
  2. Guest

    I have never seen a digital TV that has a composite video OUTPUT. It
    makes no sense - you lose signal quality. Many (but not all) have
    composite inputs; that signal is digitized and processed just as the
    OTA signal is. I have seen some that have the capability of recording
    the OTA (mpeg4 compressed) digital signal to a hard drive, but that's
    rare. For specific information, look for a service manual for your
    set at www.elektrotanya.com and study it.

    What you should be hoping for is a customer who asks you to look at a
    DVR with digital tuner, then neglects to pick it up. It's 2012, time
    to accept the digital world.

    PlainBill
     
  3. whit3rd

    whit3rd Guest

    There was a generation of HDTV that was a separate box (like a cable box)
    that went between the RF input and the monitor. Those, frequently had
    a video/composite output to support VCR and other legacy components.

    Samsung SIR-TS160 and SIR-TS360 were two such (and they may be available
    used).

    The problem with using any television, is that it has to be left ON (with the
    screen backlight illuminated, sound blaring) in support of a timed VCR.
    The separate-box does this quietly and without fuss, but even if you can
    find a modern TV with composite outputs, it won't be automatically ON
    and tuned to your channel at record time unless you prearrange that.

    The modern way, of course, is to get something like SiliconDust's dual tuner
    (HD Homerun?) and let your PC record any and all of the shows you want.
     
  4. Phil Allison

    Phil Allison Guest

  5. That is an interesting feature on that set Phil. I didn't notice a
    mention of high impedance line audio out though. It must have it just
    didn't see it. Problem is though I'm in the US and the set is in
    Australia. Would probably cost a small fortune to get it here. I never
    knew that Dick Smith was now into consumer electronics. I bought my
    Dick Smith ESR meter kit from a US supplier several years ago and I'
    ve always been very satisfied with it. I used to talk with Bob Parker
    on this group years ago but I haven't seen him on for some time now.
    He designed that meter and was always very helpful. We talked
    personally many times and he was instrumental in my decision to buy
    the kit.
    Lenny
     
  6. Phil Allison

    Phil Allison Guest

    "klem kedidelhopper mental defective "
    ........ Phil

    That is an interesting feature on that set Phil. I didn't notice a
    mention of high impedance line audio out though. It must have it just
    didn't see it.

    ** It lacks a coffee maker and mobile phone charger too.


    Problem is though I'm in the US and the set is in Australia.


    ** Wot a fuckin' idiot.


    .... Phil
     
  7. It might just be a composite pass-through input -like with conference room
    type video projectors, there's 900 inputs and outputs, but you can't use
    the thing as a converter between signals.
     
  8. Guest

    Actually you might be able to get a DVI or VGA ouput somewhere and use a little convertor box. I have a couple so I can send the PC's output to an NTSC television. They were about fifty bucks apiece but I'd bet they're cheaper now.

    I'm pretty sure it is cheap to convert from DVI to VGA, but I don't know about the other way around, which I might (happen to) need.

    In any event, a TV is not going to downconvert for you, that what my littleboxes are for.

    Actually I remember installing an ATI AIW 7500 years ago for a buddy and I found that for some reason the COMB filter wouldn't work right using the composite output, we had to turn the notch filter on. Should have used Svid but it was a fairly long run.

    Later with the EZTV box going into my XBR, the COMB filter worked and the interlace was perfect, but what was strange is with the analog COMB filter you know how you see the crawling dots on the first line of a large color block ? They didn't crawl.

    I am still at a loss as to how the hell they got the timing right enough but made it so the dots were stationary. Eother way the quality was as expected, 480i.

    I have the opposite problem myself, I got a shitload of old beta tapes I want to turn into MPEGs and DVDs. I don't know if my system is good enough touse one of those USB convertors, well at least this one. I have a never syatem in the basement feeding the BIG stereo and a projo, but that can't take as many harddrives as this one. Not sure what to do. I want it ALL on harddrives, and more than one of them. I might only get one chance to rip them..

    From what I gather for your problem though is that HDMI can be converted toDVI, and DVI can be converted to VGA. One of those little boxes will do itfrom there. The only problem is that you are going to need an analog audioconnection because normally HDMI includes it and doesn't require separate cables.

    I've heard of cases though, where if the PC was booted with the TV off or something it would not have audio, probably something to do with a handshake.. The solution in that case because the guy didn't want to be forced into using the TV all the time was to just use analog audio. I really don't know what happens with the audio if you use a convertor from HDMI to DVI, maybe the convertor has audio jacks.

    Google should find you something on that right quick.

    J
     
  9. whit3rd

    whit3rd Guest

    [about getting composite video to a VCR, from a TV]
    And, remember to hunt the menus for the automatic-shutoff
    feature and disable it; these gizmos often save energy
    by shutting themselves down if remote control signals aren't
    sent every once in a while.

    Your VCR won't be able to channel-select, in general, nor power-up
    the converter at record time. Computer-based solutions are better.
     
  10. Franc Zabkar

    Franc Zabkar Guest

    It doesn't answer your question but ...

    I use a cheap STB (AU$40) with a USB socket and HDMI output. I can
    record any program in HD to a USB flash drive. The file format is
    playable on a PC using VLC video player. No need for VCRs anymore. In
    fact I'm told that you can even burn the recordings in DVD format so
    that they can be played on a regular DVD player.

    - Franc Zabkar
     
  11. I realize that I can do things like the ones mentioned with convertor
    boxes. I was just hoping that there was a way to do it without the use
    of an additional box. but now that doesn't seem like a possibility,
    and in fact as someone else previously mentioned even if I could
    accomplish this it would require having the TV on while making the
    recording. This is not practical at all, especially considering the
    clock ticking on these flat panels all the while they're on. Lenny
     
  12. Franc Zabkar

    Franc Zabkar Guest

    The STB can record in standalone mode. It has its own tuner. You would
    just need the TV to set it up.

    - Franc Zabkar
     
  13. Guest

    " I use a cheap STB (AU$40) with a USB socket and HDMI output. I can
    STB = Set Top Box ? (just making sure)

    If you're talking one of those USB video convertora we better ask Lenny if he has a computer that doesn't say "ENIAC" on it LOL. IIRC he was in here awhile back looking to fix something on a 386 or something for some old software, or something like that.

    I'm running a PC that's OK (AMD [email protected], 2 Ghz FSB, 1.5 GB RAM) and I don't trust it to run one of those things without dropped frames etc. When they say minimum system requirements, remember they STILL want to sell their product. Plenty of times I've bought things that my system just barely qualified for and it ran like shit. The manufacturer's support (if any) usuallywould say that I need a better PC.

    Anyway even if I did decide to use the PC as a recorder, I would need a DVIoutput to watch the recordings on TV anyway, and that's a feature that's still not quite universal on new motherboards. Many do have it now, but go back just a few years and they were not so common. That would mean another vidcard.

    Then, capturing from a convertor box in 480i gives you 480i quality. Of course a VCR makes that even worse. Maybe a standalone DVDR would be better, some of them might up and downconvert. More expensive ones - of course.

    Anyway, if two event timer record is desired, you would need either to be able to select video inputs in the timer menu or else it has to have a tuner.. With a tuner concievably you could use two convertors and have one set tochannel three and the other to four. Just leave them both on.

    Why don't standalone DVDRs have something like a cable mouse, like on old Sony 920 ? (maybe some do ?)

    J
     
  14.  
  15. Franc Zabkar

    Franc Zabkar Guest

    No.

    Here is what I'm talking about:
    http://www.soniq.com.au/index.php/Set-Top-Boxes/T201/flypage.tpl.html

    It's virtually a drop-in replacement for your VCR except that, instead
    of a VHS cassette, it records to a USB stick. You can then play it
    back through the TV, or you can take the flash drive to a PC and
    transfer the file(s) to your HDD.

    In fact I've just played back a recording of a recent EUFA cup soccer
    match on an 800MHz AMD Duron running Win98SE using VLC video player.

    http://www.videolan.org/vlc/

    You'll need a USB 2.0 port, though, as USB 1.1 is quite slow. At least
    I think it's the port that is the bottleneck (I don't have room on my
    HDD to download the file).

    AISI, why would you bother with an analogue recording if you can do it
    digitally for $40, and then make perfect copies every time, as well as
    transferring them to a playable optical disc?

    BTW, my Internet machine is an old AMD 450MHz socket 7 box running
    Win98SE. My brother reckons it's made of wood. :)

    - Franc Zabkar
     
  16. Guest

    I'm not sure the 12AU7 was invented by the time of the ENIAC.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ENIAC

    It probably used loktal tubes like 7V7s or something, untless it was even before that.

    Tell you what, I wish I had maybe a 386 just for the hell of it. Even though almost all my old stuff still runs there is this one game called Johnny Vegas Poker that will not run on anything newer. It comes up with a divide by zero error. I'm not sure now but I think it would run on a 486SX but not a DX, something like that. I used it during my expensive gambling education.. Yes I went out and played real poker (that's what was expensive of course) but this game had a help section that was pretty good. It would give you the odds and recommend bet or fold. It told you the odds versus the pot odds. If your odds of winning the hand are better than the bet/pot amount ratio, you bet. You can win poker fairly consistently if you play it right, until you run into others who can play it right, then your chances are equal. If you can't play it right then they will take your goodies and send you home.

    Anyhoo, this $40 gizmo looks pretty good. In fact I plan on getting one. Mymain fetish when it comes to this was not to have DVDs, but to have PC files. The box itself does it, and if I want to put something up on youtube I just stick the stick in the PC apparently. Once I get one and get busy I will probably be THE preeminent star of youtube. The reason ? I GOT BETA ! LOL

    I won't even play the beta tapes right now, they are kinda old and I might only get one chance. Plus I have a Sony SL-HFR60 and I don't trust the reelmotor very much as it was a high failure rate part. Actually I wish I had a beta rewinder. I think eBay's search engine would return "HAHAHAHAHAHAHA"if I looked for one there.

    Us dinosaurs have to stick together.

    My boss is from Austria and of course went to school there for electronics.He had to design a radio or something "showing all connections and component values" as an exam. He had forgotten to include the filament supply and the instructor drew a picture of a candle on it as a hint. When he told me this I responded "Hey, you were ready for sold state". Can't help it if theworld can't catch up to us dinosaurs.

    J
     
  17. Franc Zabkar

    Franc Zabkar Guest

    The Soniq STB is designed for the Australian market. I looked around
    for something to suit the North American market, but I couldn't find
    anything other than a TV card for a PC. Maybe you guys call them by
    some other name.

    Here is a similar thread at aus.electronics:
    http://groups.google.com/group/aus....59fd0c4147e/fd55c20c14590911#fd55c20c14590911

    - Franc Zabkar
     
  18. Guest

    Maybe we just cannot get them here. I have run across this before and it burns me up. Fucking supposedly NUMBER ONE NUMBER ONE and we can't keep our people healthy despite spending outrageous amounts, or even safe, or travel just anywhere......

    The Amwerican illusion has been gone for me for a long time, it's a fuckingjoke and you know what ? I bet the fucking MPAA is stopping these things from being sold here and they got their fingers in other countries too because media bullswhit movies are one of ther US' chief exports. (these are thesame folk who lobbied and sued to get betamaxes outlawed, what, you think they went to another planet or something ?) Maybe they can't cow all the governments in the world and keep you all from having the good shit, but theycan certainly bribe the companies to not make an NTSC version. And even ifthere is an NTSC version they could block it's import. They certainly don't have to worry about us building our own.

    I keep finding out more and more shit like this, I want to move out. Russiamight be better.

    That's enough, any more and I risk getting political and you do not want that. Fucking stupid ass people here think we got it better than anywhere in the world.

    Amazing. Simply fucking amazing.

    J
     
  19. Guest

    Lenny I started recording HDTV in a PC 8 years ago. It was a very modest AMD Sempron on a cheap ECS mobo. Try it and you'll never go back to a VCR. Heck man, you repair that junk so you know just how crappy a VCR really is. The PC I'm on right now is recording as I type. It can also play out multiple HD streams while in record and never drops a frame. I have 2 more nearly identical machines that get used as plain jane PCs but are often in record.No heads to wear out, no dropouts no record time limits. It's way easier to implement than you think.

     
  20. Franc Zabkar

    Franc Zabkar Guest

    I understand your frustration.

    Is it possible that a more enlightened country that uses the same DTV
    standard allows these things to be imported? If so, would it be
    possible to obtain one that way?

    - Franc Zabkar
     
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