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Complete IDIOT to electronics

Discussion in 'General Electronics Discussion' started by Felineman, Jun 6, 2016.

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  1. Felineman

    Felineman

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    Jun 6, 2016
    I have over 80 Everline M10CC840D56N2A 22 volt DC 56 led strip lights, http://unvlt.com/pdf/literature/flyers/EVERLINE_LED Linear_Brochure.pdf I have them working on a 120 volt-16 volt DC 1ma transformer but I want to use them on a 12 volt DC solar system. YES I know I need to step up the power to at least 16 volt DC, I've tested them running on a Kill-A-Volt meter and 4 of them together use about 9 watts at 16 volt DC. I bought one of those 12-24 volt step ups for automotive and it won't work due to the draw requirements. So I need a VERY BASIC easy to build 12-16 volt DC step up that will work with very minimal watt usage IE.... 5-20 watts. I know just enough not too electrocute myself so please keep it so simple a complete moron can understand. I would prefer something that has very little draw and is simple to build, I'd like to say as simple as a 10 year old could understand and go grab a 10 year old but they would understand it better then I would. So hopefully someone can help me out with this, oh and if it can be designed without and chips or complicated circuits. I just want something that is easy, cheap and reliable in damp areas.
     
  2. Harald Kapp

    Harald Kapp Moderator Moderator

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    Do you mean 1A? 1mA will not be sufficient to drive the LEDs.
    1 A is closer to the spec. These strips are meant to be used at 22 V / 1.05 A.
    Thats 9 W/16 V/4 = 150 mA per LED strip. This value is not plausible. The nominal power is 23.1 W at 22V
    This is not plausible. Such a converter should easily be able to supply at least 150 mA. Can you link to the technical specs of the converter uesed? How did you connect it? Does it even work without load (no LEDs attached)?
    A step-up regulator is conceptually simple, but the devil is in the details.
    Also, these LED modules are not to be driven by a 'normal' voltage source. They need an LED driver which controls the current to prevent destruction by overcurrent. This is shown in the brochure you linked in the application examples. The drivers offered in the brochure all have a high voltage input. If you need to operate the LED strips from 12V, one way to go is to use an inverter as offered for use in cars to step up 12 V to 120 V, the use a regular driver to control the LEDs.
    You will have to take into account the power requirements:
    1 LED strip requires 23 W.
    The efficiency of the driver around 80 % (meaning 20 % of input power is lost within the driver electronics). This means the input power to the driver is 23W/0.8 ~= 29W.
    The inverter from 12V to 120 V also has an efficiency of typ. 80%. Again this means that the input power to the 12V inverter is higher: 29W/0.8 ~= 36W.
    36W/12V = 3A: this is the current drawn from 12V for 1 single LED strip. Do the math for 80 strips and see how long your 12 V battery will last.

    We may be able to supply better help if you tel us what you want to achieve, not how.
     
  3. Bluejets

    Bluejets

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    Oct 5, 2014
    As far as I can make out, these units are designed to run off a "driver" with varying level of input voltage from the mains. I don't see why you need to run them individually from a transformer (which it appears you've misquoted the specs) To run off solar would then be simple to run from an inverter to the drivers designed for the job.
     
  4. Felineman

    Felineman

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    Jun 6, 2016
    Opps 16 volt DC 900 ma transformer, Kill-A-Watt meter says 3.5 watts with just the transformer plugged into it and when lights are plugged in 4 strips positive to positive/negitive to negitive it climbs to 11.8-12.5 watts so divide by 4 and I get about 2 watts each minus the watts the transformer is using. The original transformer is a monstrous thing and sucks power in the order of 2-5 Amps per hour, I just don't have the power requirements to use it, plus the power requirements for the inverter. I wouldn't be using all 80, DAMN I'd have to walk around with a welding helmet set to 5000, just want to run about 4 in living/kitchen, 2 bedrooms and 4 bathroom in an off-grid cabin. I tried one of those auto 12-24 volt step ups wouldn't even turn the lights on, defective? Sorry pics aren't the best meter is saying 12.0 Watts after 5 hrs plugged in, wanted to see if when lights got hot they would draw more watts. Currently I have 255 watts of panels set to 12 volt with a 30 amp charge controller and 2 (Cough) POS 120 min reserve deep cycle batteries, I got screwed and was told they were 120 AH but really they are only 2AH. Will be replacing those soon with 6 volt golf cart batteries hooked for 12 volt. I'm limited for power right now because the trailer fridge I'm using draws 1 amp per hour because of the stupid flame detection board, currently looking for an old manual light and forget style fridge. I hope this details what I am using them for and my plans for power generation for the future. Each light fixture has 2 strips in it.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jun 6, 2016
  5. Felineman

    Felineman

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    Jun 6, 2016
    BTW I only have 1 driver unit and its been battered, I got all this stuff from the garbage and being of limited budget I can't afford the real decent 12 volt dc leds. Sorry missed the converter part, https://www.amazon.ca/RioRand-Waterproof-Converter-Voltage-Regulator/dp/B00JVMIBYU/ref=pd_sim_107_6/186-5855552-4642201?ie=UTF8&dpID=417UJZFBmVL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160,160_&refRID=9GKF6ARX5XCPXYVA310X I get 24 volt dc from output but lights won't come on with it. As too over voltage? or do you mean over amperage? I was just gonna use a dc 20 volt fuse or breaker.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2016
  6. Harald Kapp

    Harald Kapp Moderator Moderator

    11,642
    2,690
    Nov 17, 2011
    This converter is designed for 24V output. The LEd strips are designed for 22V input. Both do not match. The LEds at 24V will draw way too much current. The converter may recognize this as short circuit and turn off the output as a protection measure.
    You cannot operate such a light strip from a voltage source such as this conveter. You need a circuit that limits or controls the current, such as an LED driver.
    Lacking the resources for a new driver, you can try to use a resistor between the 24V output of the converter and the 22V input of the LED strip to limit the current.
    For each single LEd strip this is to be designed as follows:
    Supply voltage 24V from converter
    Required voltage 22V to LEDs
    Therefore voltage drop across the resistor is Vdrop=24V-22V=2V
    Required current 1.05A per LED strip
    Therefore the resistor needs to have a resistance of R=V/I=2V/1.05A=1.9Ω. A common standard value near enough is 2Ω. The resistor will dissipate some power: P=V*I=2V*1.,5A=2W.
    Therefore the rating for the resistor is 2Ω at 2W per LED strip.
     
  7. Felineman

    Felineman

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    Jun 6, 2016
    OK I'll try that, but why then do they light up on 16v dc and only use 12 watts of power for 4 of them if thy require approx 1 amp each? If my math is right I'm using .59 amp to light 4 of them.
     
  8. BobK

    BobK

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    Jan 5, 2010
    Because at 16V they will require much less current, and put out much less light.


    Bob
     
  9. Felineman

    Felineman

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    Jun 6, 2016
    Which brings me back to my original request for help, I need a 12 volt DC to 16 Volt DC step up booster diagram that will operate at 10 watts. The amount of light is fine for my purpose any more and it would be too bright, I want to use this step up with 12 volt DC batteries that are charged by solar.
     
  10. Gryd3

    Gryd3

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    Jun 25, 2014
    No... I don't think you read what they have been saying...
    You need a Constant Current Driver that puts out 1Amp . The Power supply will vary it's voltage to make sure 1A is going through the LED Strip(s).
    If you have one strip, the driver should be a 1000mA CC driver with an output voltage range that includes 22V.
    If you are using 2 strips, your driver should again, be a 1000mA CC driver with an output voltage range that includes 44V... (ie... 1000mA Constant Current Driver, Output Voltage 12V - 50V)


    This may or may not be a good suggestion for you, but it's *something* to look at right away.
    http://www.dx.com/p/buck-constant-voltage-constant-current-module-blue-dc-dc-5a-239099
    It's a 'buck' style converter/driver... which can be operated in constant voltage or constant current mode... This module can be set to provide 1 Amp to your Strip, but also limit the voltage to not 'exceed' what you have pre-set.
     
  11. (*steve*)

    (*steve*) ¡sǝpodᴉʇuɐ ǝɥʇ ɹɐǝɥd Moderator

    25,497
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    Jan 21, 2010
    what is the open circuit voltage of the solar panels? What is their rated voltage and power?

    It may be possible to connect the LED strips directly to the panel(s).
     
  12. (*steve*)

    (*steve*) ¡sǝpodᴉʇuɐ ǝɥʇ ɹɐǝɥd Moderator

    25,497
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    Jan 21, 2010
    No, we're simply trying to find a solution for you.

    If you want to use these modules correctly you need a constant current driver.

    you are currently running these at a very low voltage with a very low light output. We have presumed to want to run them at full brightness without destroying them.

    Solar panels can operate as a poor mans current source for safely driving LEDs, as long as the power output of the panels is less than the max LED power.

    You didn't explicitly state you wanted to run them at night.

    A solution is to purchase a current limited boost converter, but we have yet to determine the required current for these modules (AFAIK).

    But I'll be quite happy to close this thread and ban you if you really don't want to help yourself. Heck, I'll even refund your membership fee!
     
    chopnhack likes this.
  13. Gryd3

    Gryd3

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    Jun 25, 2014
    Can't wait for you to pump 4 Amps into a series string of LEDs rated at a hair over 1 Amp.
    If you had listened and read, you would have realized that the LEDs you have *must* be connected in series. Your lack of attention resulted in this, nothing more.
    Other models can be connected in parallel which would require higher amperage, but lower voltage.

    Your models require you to provide a 1000mA Power Supply that can provide at least 88VDC (If you are using 4 LED strips rated at 22V each)
    This would require a boost converter if you are running these on a lower voltage supply like a set of car batteries.

    Anyway. Best of luck on your adventure. I'm going to remove this thread from my alerts so I will no longer be visiting this topic.

    When you burn the house down or damage your LEDs, let us know. If you piss off too many people, they won't care. I'm neutral... so if you come back crying I'm willing to sit down and analyse what went wrong in a mature manner.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 7, 2016
    chopnhack and davenn like this.
  14. davenn

    davenn Moderator

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    thread cleaned up and closed
    user banned

    not going to put up with verbal abuse of our good members

    Dave
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2016
    chopnhack and Gryd3 like this.
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