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Color in Datasheets

J

John Larkin

Jan 1, 1970
0
I'm noticing more and more use of color in datasheets.

For example:
http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/ths4631.pdf
Circuit boards with color! :)

A sign of the times....

What next? Animated datasheets. :)

How about parts you can actually get, and that actually work, and
"support" that actually supports, from TI?

We just celebrated the two month anniversary of our service request
about the horrible THS3062 problem. After dozens of prods, to TI, the
TI reps, and through the distributors, no response yet.

They did give me an automated response to my last email, assigning a
service request number to my question about why they have not
responded to the original service request number.

Avoid the Burr-Brown parts. TI has scrooed the pooch on that one.

John
 
How about parts you can actually get, and that actually work, and
"support" that actually supports, from TI?

Whar? Break with 35 years of tradition? Back in 1972, TI took an order
for a combined counter and 7-segment display driver chip, quoting six
weeks delivery, so I laid out the printed circuit board and got it
made.

It turned out that the data sheet didn't generate enough orders, so
they never made the part at all ...

A few years later, when I had to create company data sheets so that my
employers could buy nomimally equivant parts from various
manufacturers, I noticed that TI data sheets for nominally industry
standard parts failed to specify some paramaters that other
manufacturers did specify, or specified them more loosely, which
didn't make feel any better about TI.
We just celebrated the two month anniversary of our service request
about the horrible THS3062 problem. After dozens of prods, to TI, the
TI reps, and through the distributors, no response yet.

Around ten years ago, I suppressed my prejudice and designed in a TI
TLC2201 op amp.

It's a nice part, but it uses big MOSFET input transistors to give
relatively low input noise, so the input capacitance is relatively
high for an op amp at some 15pF, compared with a couple of pF in a
typical part.

This isn't mentioned anywhere in the data sheet, and when it screwed
up my circuit, the TI rep didn't have clue what the input capacitance
was

http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tlc2201.pdf

The modern datasheet still doesn't give a value for the input
capacitance, though it now includes a spice model of the part, where
the input capacitance should be implicitly specified in the model used
for the two MOSFET's at the input.
They did give me an automated response to my last email, assigning a
service request number to my question about why they have not
responded to the original service request number.

Avoid the Burr-Brown parts. TI has scrooed the pooch on that one.

It did take them a while, and it sounds as if the current problem with
Burr-Brown parts is not that TI has screwed up the parts, but that
they've failed to maintain the Burr-Brown test gear so that they can't
prove that current production still meets the old Burr-Brown
specfications.
 
J

Joel Koltner

Jan 1, 1970
0
D from BC said:
I'm noticing more and more use of color in datasheets.

About five years ago Micron starting changing all their logos on their data
sheets to color (blue) . Somewhere they had a little splash ad telling you
that the "colorizing" was "sponsored by HP!" My interpretation was that HP
paid Micron some small amount of money that they figured they'd get back in
extra ink and toner sales... but the whole think seemed a bit odd, really.

It's too bad that in the data sheet you linked some of the figures (e.g., Fig.
50) were compressed with something like JPEG that makes what should be nice
crisp edges somewhat blurry. The other figures don't have that problem, so it
seems like an isolated faux paus and TI generally watches that sort of
thing...
 
S

Spehro Pefhany

Jan 1, 1970
0
Whar? Break with 35 years of tradition? Back in 1972, TI took an order
for a combined counter and 7-segment display driver chip, quoting six
weeks delivery, so I laid out the printed circuit board and got it
made.

It turned out that the data sheet didn't generate enough orders, so
they never made the part at all ...

A few years later, when I had to create company data sheets so that my
employers could buy nomimally equivant parts from various
manufacturers, I noticed that TI data sheets for nominally industry
standard parts failed to specify some paramaters that other
manufacturers did specify, or specified them more loosely, which
didn't make feel any better about TI.


Around ten years ago, I suppressed my prejudice and designed in a TI
TLC2201 op amp.

It's a nice part, but it uses big MOSFET input transistors to give
relatively low input noise, so the input capacitance is relatively
high for an op amp at some 15pF, compared with a couple of pF in a
typical part.

This isn't mentioned anywhere in the data sheet, and when it screwed
up my circuit, the TI rep didn't have clue what the input capacitance
was

http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tlc2201.pdf

The modern datasheet still doesn't give a value for the input
capacitance, though it now includes a spice model of the part, where
the input capacitance should be implicitly specified in the model used
for the two MOSFET's at the input.

See _The LinCMOS Handbook_. I picked up mine in the UK about 10-12
years ago. IIRC, those big input MOSFETs are actually around 100
parallel MOSFETS per input, both input transistor bits interspersed in
a single array so as to minimize Vos. In low power circuits the fb
resistors tend to be large, which aggravates the issue.
It did take them a while, and it sounds as if the current problem with
Burr-Brown parts is not that TI has screwed up the parts, but that
they've failed to maintain the Burr-Brown test gear so that they can't
prove that current production still meets the old Burr-Brown
specfications.



Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
 
J

John Larkin

Jan 1, 1970
0
That is a good idea! animated datasheets!!

Marc


Yeah, Flash files. With nice touchy-feelie introductions.

John
 
D

D from BC

Jan 1, 1970
0
Yeah, Flash files. With nice touchy-feelie introductions.

John

I can imagine an exploding part cartoon in the absolute specifications
section. :)

What if datasheets disappear.
Let's say everything has a perfect spice model.
This will allow datasheets to be produced from the spice model.

One downloads an entire spice library.
Then enters the desired specs.
The app scans all the spice models.
It then produces a spice based datasheet.

A nice way to standardize datasheet presentation.


D from BC
 
M

mpm

Jan 1, 1970
0
I can imagine an exploding part cartoon in the absolute specifications
section. :)

What if datasheets disappear.
Let's say everything has a perfect spice model.
This will allow datasheets to be produced from the spice model.

One downloads an entire spice library.
Then enters the desired specs.
The app scans all the spice models.
It then produces a spice based datasheet.

A nice way to standardize datasheet presentation.

D from BC- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Grudgingly, I guess I could accept "Clippie" hopping around the
datasheet if in the process, he would fix all of the typos and
omissions....!! and outright "lies" in some cases :(

-mpm
 
J

JosephKK

Jan 1, 1970
0
[email protected] [email protected] posted to
sci.electronics.design:
Whar? Break with 35 years of tradition? Back in 1972, TI took an
order for a combined counter and 7-segment display driver chip,
quoting six weeks delivery, so I laid out the printed circuit board
and got it made.

It turned out that the data sheet didn't generate enough orders, so
they never made the part at all ...

A few years later, when I had to create company data sheets so that
my employers could buy nomimally equivant parts from various
manufacturers, I noticed that TI data sheets for nominally industry
standard parts failed to specify some paramaters that other
manufacturers did specify, or specified them more loosely, which
didn't make feel any better about TI.


Around ten years ago, I suppressed my prejudice and designed in a TI
TLC2201 op amp.

It's a nice part, but it uses big MOSFET input transistors to give
relatively low input noise, so the input capacitance is relatively
high for an op amp at some 15pF, compared with a couple of pF in a
typical part.

This isn't mentioned anywhere in the data sheet, and when it screwed
up my circuit, the TI rep didn't have clue what the input
capacitance was

http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tlc2201.pdf

The modern datasheet still doesn't give a value for the input
capacitance, though it now includes a spice model of the part, where
the input capacitance should be implicitly specified in the model
used for the two MOSFET's at the input.


It did take them a while, and it sounds as if the current problem
with Burr-Brown parts is not that TI has screwed up the parts, but
that they've failed to maintain the Burr-Brown test gear so that
they can't prove that current production still meets the old
Burr-Brown specfications.

More likely scrapped them before finding out that the new testers
cannot duplicate the tests that B-B used.
 
J

JosephKK

Jan 1, 1970
0
John Larkin [email protected] posted to
sci.electronics.design:
Yeah, Flash files. With nice touchy-feelie introductions.

John

Cool, a computer powered interactive data sheet. And you have to buy
a new data sheet each month.
 
J

JosephKK

Jan 1, 1970
0
Robert Baer [email protected] posted to sci.electronics.design:
...with electrons chasing the holes...

Eeeek!. D, there has been underage readers of this NG. We do not
want too early recombination now do we? Also note, gold has been
shown to be an effective recombination dopant.
 
J

John Larkin

Jan 1, 1970
0
Robert Baer [email protected] posted to sci.electronics.design:


Eeeek!. D, there has been underage readers of this NG. We do not
want too early recombination now do we? Also note, gold has been
shown to be an effective recombination dopant.

Your comment is clearly too forward, and biased.

John
 
D

D from BC

Jan 1, 1970
0
John Larkin [email protected] posted to
sci.electronics.design:


Cool, a computer powered interactive data sheet. And you have to buy
a new data sheet each month.

Yah... It does make the datasheet more expensive..
Somebody has to pay the datasheet decorator.. :)
No problem....
Sponsored links on datasheets! :p
"Digikey", "Mouser", "Tektronix", "Penis Enlargement", "Porno
movies"..heck whatever pays the datasheet editor.. :p

I dunno why PDF is used for datasheets.
Manufacturers could make each datasheet an interactive webpage.


D from BC
 
J

John Larkin

Jan 1, 1970
0
Yah... It does make the datasheet more expensive..
Somebody has to pay the datasheet decorator.. :)
No problem....
Sponsored links on datasheets! :p
"Digikey", "Mouser", "Tektronix", "Penis Enlargement", "Porno
movies"..heck whatever pays the datasheet editor.. :p

I dunno why PDF is used for datasheets.
Manufacturers could make each datasheet an interactive webpage.


D from BC


That would make them hard to save. Some of the pdf's are hard to save
already. And a lot of the web pages can't be bookmarked; I guess too
many people were buying chips, and they need to discourage that.

John
 
R

Robert Adsett

Jan 1, 1970
0
D from BC said:
I dunno why PDF is used for datasheets.
Manufacturers could make each datasheet an interactive webpage.

PDFs can be saved and the publishers knows exactly what they will look
like when printed. It was the latter I think that pushed publishing in
that format initially. The figure on page 3 stays on page 3.

Web pages are ephemeral and close to impossible to archive locally.

Printed output varies considerably. Not a big problem if designed
properly but they are oh so rarely designed properly.

Robert
 
D

D from BC

Jan 1, 1970
0
That would make them hard to save. Some of the pdf's are hard to save
already. And a lot of the web pages can't be bookmarked; I guess too
many people were buying chips, and they need to discourage that.

John

A web datasheet could have printing and save options.


D from BC
 
K

krw

Jan 1, 1970
0
Yah... It does make the datasheet more expensive..
Somebody has to pay the datasheet decorator.. :)
No problem....
Sponsored links on datasheets! :p
"Digikey", "Mouser", "Tektronix", "Penis Enlargement", "Porno
movies"..heck whatever pays the datasheet editor.. :p

I dunno why PDF is used for datasheets.
Manufacturers could make each datasheet an interactive webpage.
It's tough to print an interactive porno page and mark/dogear it up.
It's also hard to add it to the design manual or archive it with the
rest of the design data.
 
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