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Circular saw won't ground, safe?

Discussion in 'Electronic Basics' started by Tim Zimmer, May 15, 2005.

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  1. Tim Zimmer

    Tim Zimmer Guest

    Is it safe to operate an all alloy housing circular saw. My
    15-year old industrial saw is reliable but the only thing aging
    is the cord. The cord's insulation is cracking and deteriorating.
    Last I'd check the ground wire is open but hidden from view.
    What would be the hazards if I continue to use it?

  2. The ground protects YOU. Replace the cord and connect the ground. The
    bottom line is: How many more years do you wish to do woodworking?
  3. Nog

    Nog Guest

    Only death.

    Open the case and replace the entire cord. Then you can use it for another
    15 years.
  4. Andy Dingley

    Andy Dingley Guest

    We'll all laugh at your funeral when they bury you in a cardboard box
    for being a skinflint.

    It's a fecking power cable. Coupel of bucks most, even for good quality
    cable, and a few minutes job to fix. I have sympathy for people who get
    hurt from damaged cables by accident (this is why workshop tools should
    be tested and inspected, not just ignored) but to _know_ that it's a bad
    cable and to carry on using it is just pikey.
  5. spudnuty

    spudnuty Guest

    It is quite an easy matter to replace the power cord and ground but
    even with a grounded device you're depending on a chain of secure
    grounds to keep your tool safe. I would also obtain a GFCI pigtail and
    only run your power tools from that. They're required on all jobsites
    I've been on and all the electrocutions I've studied have been from
    workmen bypassing them.
  6. CW

    CW Guest

    Possible death. Replace the cord.
  7. toller

    toller Guest

    A couple years ago I moved an outlet by putting a hand on each side,
    contacting the hot with one and the neutral with the other. (I thought "the
    other guy" had opened the breaker) I was rather surprised to be alive and
    unhurt afterwards. I did some research and found out it is almost
    impossible to get a lethal shock from 120v under normal circumstances.
    Virtually all the electrocutions on record have been from 4000v or higher.

    Accordingly, I am wondering about those fatal accidents you have studied.
    If my understanding is incorrect, I certainly want to get it adjusted. (no,
    I do not treat 120v casually; "almost impossible" means it is possible...)
  8. You would be risking a fatal electrical shock, should the saw
    develop an internal insulation fault (as it very well could if it's that

    Replace the cord completely. If you lack the requisite skill
    and/or tools to do so properly, you should take the unit to a
    professional repair shop. Any place that repairs power tools should be
    able to handle it.

    Dr. Anton T. Squeegee, Director, Dutch Surrealist Plumbing Institute.
    (Known to some as Bruce Lane, ARS KC7GR,
    kyrrin (a/t) bluefeathertech[d=o=t]calm --
    "If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped
    with surreal ports?"

  9. IT ISN'T THE VOLTAGE! When I was in USN, they had studies showing deaths
    from relatively low voltages. It's the amps, or more precisely the
    milliamps, and where they travel. A certain milliamp current can be lethal
    if it passes through the heart/chest area because it will cause the heart to
    go into fibrillation, while a relatively high current may just cause the
    heart to stop, but once it is removed the heart will restart on it's own. I
    don't remember the exact numbers, but seems like it was around the 90-100
    milliamp range that was lethal due to causing fibrillation.
  10. George

    George Guest

    Your heart operates on considerably less potential. You're betting that the
    jolt won't find the proper pathway to interfere or stop it? Foolish wager.

    Two in my experience on 120 Volts, but that's 50% of electrocution
    fatalities I've had.
  11. toller

    toller Guest

    I certainly agree that the cord should be replaced; but it is not
    particularly dangerous. To get any shock, you would have to both short the
    hot to the frame and break the neutral. While certainly not impossible, it
    isn't likely. (Though I just threw out a 60 year old waffle iron with
    exactly this problem; well actually it was shorted before the switch, so it
    was like a broken neutral.)
    Even then, the bigger danger is dropping a saw with a spinning blade than

    My oven, like millions out there, has the neutral attached to the frame;
    which is essentially a deliberate short. Unless the neutral is broken, it
    is harmless. It is a foolish setup, and is now contrary to code, but you
    would be hard pressed to find anyone hurt by it.
  12. Doug Miller

    Doug Miller Guest

    Once again demonstrating that you have _no_business_ giving electrical advice
    to anyone. _Of_course_ it's almost impossible to get a lethal shock under
    "normal circumstances" because "normal circumstances" don't include doing
    stupid stuff like putting your hands across a live circuit. It's _abnormal_
    circumstances that are dangerous, and it is indeed quite possible to receive a
    fatal shock from 120V when something has gone wrong - like installing a stove
    with its equipment ground connected to the circuit neutral conductor, as you
    recently told someone to do.

    And only an idiot would assume that "the other guy" had opened the breaker,
    and not check first. Hell, I check before touching even when *I* am the guy
    that opened the breaker - just to make sure I opened the right one.

    If you work on your own wiring, I hope you live alone. I'd hate to see anyone
    else's life jeopardized by your ignorance.

    Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

    Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
    And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
  13. Guess who

    Guess who Guest

    Either this is a troll or you are a moron. Take your pick.
  14. toller

    toller Guest

    You are correct; 100ma is about the lethal threashold. But it is difficult
    to get 100ma off 120v unless you are in saltwater.
    Naturally adverse medical conditions, or just plain bad luck, will change
  15. CW

    CW Guest

    Glad I'm not the only one that does that.
  16. Leon

    Leon Guest

    After a delivery truck hit a power pole and knocked down some power lines I
    questioned the gentleman managing and keeping an eye on the crew repairing
    the power lines. He indicated that 220 is more likely to get you as it
    tends to hold on to you. The much higher voltage lines will more likely
    throw you away.
  17. LRod

    LRod Guest

    Neither of you are (the only one). I do, too. It's too easy to check,
    and the potential consequences of not checking are too high.


    Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

    Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

    Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997
  18. Robatoy

    Robatoy Guest

    If a PaceMaker can keep your heart going with fractions of milliwatts
    and low voltage, WTF makes you think that ANY electrical current is safe
    or safer?

    A ground is there to conduct possible power away from where it can cause
    damage. To knowingly operate a metal tool without a proper ground is
    just plain fucking stupid. Nothing else sums it up better. You are a
    fucking moron.

    Or a troll.

    I'm going with both.
  19. Guest

    I think the OP was trolling, judging by his lack of response. It looks
    like he hauled in a whole netfull.

  20. Robatoy

    Robatoy Guest

    At the risk he was just an ignorant fool, I decided to respond anyway.
    But I think you're probably right.
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