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Chip with simple program for Toy

Discussion in 'Electronic Basics' started by Berrie, Sep 29, 2004.

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  1. Berrie

    Berrie Guest

    Dear Reader,

    I'm looking for information (quotation for production quantity's)
    for a little chip in a toy.

    The only thing that this chip has to do is pick a RANDOM number (10th of a
    second) between 1 and 24 seconds and then change the direction of a
    motor.

    eg; 1.4 seconds to the left
    3.1 seconds to the right
    12.4 seconds to the left
    8.3 seconds to the right

    etc...etc..

    Any help in this matter would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks!

    Berrie
     
  2. Bert

    Bert Guest

    Thanks for your reply; I've send them my request.
    I hope however that the prices for the chip will go a lot lower when you
    talk about 10.000 chips.... because else I can stop designing right now :)

    Grtz
    Berrie
     
  3. Most simple thing I can imagine is an appropriate programmed eight pins PIC
    or a similar tiny AVR. You wil need some transistors to drive the motor as
    you will not find random generators with motor driving capabilities.

    petrus bitbyter
     
  4. Jamie

    Jamie Guest

    look at PIC chips.
    www.microchip.com
    they have very small 8 pin types that would be
    more than enough for that.
    you need a programmer from them to write the
    code in it.. its not hard to do and its fun to
    learn, after you see what can be done with these
    programmable integrated chips you will wonder why
    you never looked there before!
     
  5. Flash Programmable and Production Quantity don't go together in the same
    sentence. If you want cheap prices for production volumes (which 10,000
    is on the low end of), you'll be getting mask ROM parts.
     
  6. Jamie

    Jamie Guest

    the small 8 pin chips are cheap.
    but you may want to have some one bulk
    program them for you.
     
  7. John Fields

    John Fields Guest

    ---
    For a toy, an 8 bit pseudo-random pattern is prob'ly good enough,
    since you can get 255 tenth-second values out of the thing which you
    load into an 8 bit down-counter, start the motor, and then count the
    counter down with a 100ms clock. When the counter counts down to
    zero, you send a clock to the pseudo-random sequence generator to
    generate the next pattern, load it into the counter, reverse the
    direction of the motor and run the counter down to zero again to start
    the next timeout with the new value from the PRSG.
     
  8. john jardine

    john jardine Guest

    "RANDOM", Maybe easier said than done. A micro running a stored programme
    can't do it just on it's own.
    There's got to be available somewhere, a real random variable that the
    micro can then use as a 'seed' to maybe generate series of psuedo-random
    values.
    regards
    john
     
  9. Bert

    Bert Guest

    Thanks all for your help:

    this is what I foud as the cheapest out there.
    (don't have high volume price yet)
    --------------------------------

    Program Memory Type Standard Flash
    Program Memory Size (bytes) 384
    RAM Size (bytes) 16
    Data EEPROM Size (bytes) 0
    I/O pins 4
    Packages SOT-23, 8p DIP

    Features
    a.. 6-pin SOT-23 packaging

    a.. Precision 4 MHz internal oscillator

    a.. Baseline Core with 33 Instructions, 2 Stack Levels

    a.. All single-cycle Instructions except for program branches which
    are two cycles

    a.. 12-bit wide instructions

    a.. 8-bit wide data path

    a.. 25 mA source/sink current I/O

    a.. Low power (100nA) sleep current

    a.. One 8-bit timer (TMR0)

    a.. Watchdog timer (WDT)

    a.. In Circuit Serial ProgrammingT (ICSPT) capability

    a.. In-Circuit debugging support

    a.. Programmable code protection
    a..
    --------------------------------------------------------------------

    Please note that I don't have any electroninc knowledge... (but that
    is hardly news i suppose :)
    Why would I need 8 pins... what is so hard at getting a motor to
    switch direction randomly :)



    Would you be so kind and help me out a bit more.
    Based on the info above I have a chip for less then 0,50 ct (still to much;
    but ok... we're getting there)
    Now how would you hook up a motor (what other parts are needed)...is there a
    schematic example somewhere.
    Where would I find motors (eg. lego/toy size...) I had hoped to keep this
    whole
    technical unit in the 1 to 2 dollar range...since it also need some plastic
    parts too :)

    Again; thanks for all the info you can give me.

    Regards,

    Berrie
     
  10. John Fields

    John Fields Guest

    ---
    I've already given you an algorithm which you can implement in the
    simplest, least expensive µC available and, since your application is
    clearly commercial, I feel reticent to finish up the design and also
    do your leg work without some form of compensation. If you're
    interested in paying for further help, email me. If not, perhaps you
    can find someone else to help you for free.
     
  11. Bert

    Bert Guest

    John Fields wrote;
    Fair enhough... I wish it where allready commercial though :)

    Regards,

    Berrie
     
  12. Well,

    Guess that six pin processor is the latest PIC. This one will do the job
    equally good I think but there is still not much experience with it. The
    25mA are good for a lot of things. Driving LEDs for instance. But a motor
    that runs on 25mA at 5V? That 125mW power may be enough to move a clocks
    arm but will hardly move any significant load. Common toys motors requires
    some hundreds of milliamps, especially when just turned on, so you will need
    a transistor to drive it. More then one transistor as you want to be able
    to change the motors direction. The type of transistor mainly depends on the
    motor you want to control and the type of motor depends on the load you want
    to move. This things are not very difficult to find out but it takes time
    and skills you obviously do not have yourself. People on this forum tend to
    be very helpfull but I doubt you can find a volonteer to do the whole design
    for you. Sooner or later you will need a pro. John Fields is one but I know
    some in my own environment as well. For instance:

    Wouter van Ooijen
    http://www.voti.nl/

    or

    Sjaak van Schaik
    http://www.jvanschaikconsultancy.nl/

    petrus bitbyter
     
  13. Bert

    Bert Guest

    Petrus bitbyter wrote;
    Yes... the point is very well taken :) ... don't mean to ride for free on
    this one.
    I'm just in the first stages of getting to know where and who to find.
    So your reply is indeed very helpfull.

    It does need to push something of a load... so you put me on an other track.
    Although I'm not gettting all of it; I understand that there are more
    electronic parts involved.
    Which means "production costs" in some shape or form.

    Although I'm "just the Toy guy" :) ....you know how it is; if it can't be
    made for less
    then a dollar... there's no bother calling "them" again :)
    So that's what I'm doing; I'm trying to get a feel for how this
    technical-bit would work out.

    Thanks again.

    Berrie
     
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