Connect with us

Central Station Cancel Signal

Discussion in 'Security Alarms' started by [email protected], Oct 5, 2005.

Scroll to continue with content
  1. Guest

    I had a false alarm yesterday and didn't receive a cal from the central
    station to check in. When I asked them about it, they claimed they had
    received a cancel signal along with the alarm and therefore didn't
    call. Fine. But I always cancel false alarms immediately and they
    have ALWAYS called in the past, at which point I've given them the
    password and that was the end of it. I prefer to receive the call, and
    don't know if they've recently changed their policies regarding cancel
    signals, but can I turn off the cancel signal in the panel? It's an
    Ademco 20-PS.

    Thanks.
     
  2. Norm Mugford

    Norm Mugford Guest

    What you speak of is very common.
    I would not, however, reprogram the system
    to remove the cancel signal.
    When your panel was communicating
    with the central station (cancel signal), it sent an
    electronic cancel, when the central station called your site,
    they propably got a ring back from your telephone line due to the fact
    that you probably have call waiting, and your panel was communicating.

    No matter what happened, I would leave the cancel signal
    programmed in your Vista 20 PS and notify the monitoring
    station that you want to be contacted on all alarms.
    Some central stations require that a cancel signal should
    be called on, but if they get no answer, they will not dispatch.
    Your alarm company tells the central station how to handle
    each type of signal.

    Either call the central station or your alarm company to get
    your concern corrected to your liking.

    Norm Mugford
     
  3. Crash Gordon

    Crash Gordon Guest

    Yep...and it may also have been Exit/Error on Vista, in which case if we're
    busy we may not call on it either.


    | What you speak of is very common.
    | I would not, however, reprogram the system
    | to remove the cancel signal.
    | When your panel was communicating
    | with the central station (cancel signal), it sent an
    | electronic cancel, when the central station called your site,
    | they propably got a ring back from your telephone line due to the fact
    | that you probably have call waiting, and your panel was communicating.
    |
    | No matter what happened, I would leave the cancel signal
    | programmed in your Vista 20 PS and notify the monitoring
    | station that you want to be contacted on all alarms.
    | Some central stations require that a cancel signal should
    | be called on, but if they get no answer, they will not dispatch.
    | Your alarm company tells the central station how to handle
    | each type of signal.
    |
    | Either call the central station or your alarm company to get
    | your concern corrected to your liking.
    |
    | Norm Mugford
    |
    |
    | | > I had a false alarm yesterday and didn't receive a cal from the central
    | > station to check in. When I asked them about it, they claimed they had
    | > received a cancel signal along with the alarm and therefore didn't
    | > call. Fine. But I always cancel false alarms immediately and they
    | > have ALWAYS called in the past, at which point I've given them the
    | > password and that was the end of it. I prefer to receive the call, and
    | > don't know if they've recently changed their policies regarding cancel
    | > signals, but can I turn off the cancel signal in the panel? It's an
    | > Ademco 20-PS.
    | >
    | > Thanks.
    | >
    |
    |
    |
     
  4. Bob Worthy

    Bob Worthy Guest

    Unfortunately, customers are not as aware of the all the workings nor do
    they ask the question until there is a problem. Is that the customers fault,
    the alarm company's fault, who knows. Bottom line is that the alarm company
    should do what ever possible to make their customer base aware of any
    changes in procedure and the technicians should pay more heed to the little
    things when explaining the system. However, give a guy a new computer and a
    handbook for dummies and within a month he is hacking the pentagon, so he
    should be able minded enough to give some time and consideration to his
    security program. Now that I have stated what is ideal, reality is that I
    have tried several different things over the years to get customers to
    remember what happens when and alarm occurs and what to expect. Waste of
    time, money, and energy. Most people cannot remember yesterday. It is easier
    to deal with the few that call in and hold their hand.
     
  5. R.H.Campbell

    R.H.Campbell Guest

    Yup, you got that right....here's a common scenario:

    Customer: My alarm system is beeping, what should I do ?

    Me: Ok, first tell me what make of alarm panel you have.

    Customer: (...dead silence....) followed by.."How can I tell?"

    Me: Ok, is it a white or beige keypad that opens to the side or a black and
    white one that opens up and down ?

    Customer: Ugh...well....I can't tell really

    Me: Ok, can you give me your system number?

    Customer: Where do I find that ?

    Me: On the blue folder I gave you when we first put the alarm in, or look on
    one of your passcards

    Customer: Oh, my wife packed the folder away and I haven't seen it in years.
    Passcards ? What are those ?

    Then I have to describe the keypad in detail to try to determine the type of
    alarm so I can show them how to locate the trouble. I suppose if I asked if
    they have read the manual, they'd ask me what that is (if they could even
    find it..!!!!)

    I do have a database by customer name, system number, address and phone
    number, so I can always work things out....but GOLLY.... sometimes I really
    have to wonder.....

    RHC



    Now that I have stated what is ideal, reality is that I
     
  6. Mark Leuck

    Mark Leuck Guest

    See now I never understood that, by design an Exit error means (assuming
    Ademco here) either

    1. An entry/exit zone was open when exit time expired

    2. An alarm within 2 minutes of arming

    Now in "theory" the customer should be still at the residence however they
    may also be tooling down the road while someone is breaking in after seeing
    them leave

    I would treat it like any burg signal
     
  7. Crash Gordon

    Crash Gordon Guest

    I use refrigerator magnets with our number on it...and I used to have their
    account number on it too but that just confused them...so it's just a little
    refrig magnet with the three steps to cancel dispatch. Disarm System with
    your code, If you don't hear from us in 60 secs call this number xxxxxxx ,
    give your name and password.


    | Yup, you got that right....here's a common scenario:
    |
    | Customer: My alarm system is beeping, what should I do ?
    |
    | Me: Ok, first tell me what make of alarm panel you have.
    |
    | Customer: (...dead silence....) followed by.."How can I tell?"
    |
    | Me: Ok, is it a white or beige keypad that opens to the side or a black
    and
    | white one that opens up and down ?
    |
    | Customer: Ugh...well....I can't tell really
    |
    | Me: Ok, can you give me your system number?
    |
    | Customer: Where do I find that ?
    |
    | Me: On the blue folder I gave you when we first put the alarm in, or look
    on
    | one of your passcards
    |
    | Customer: Oh, my wife packed the folder away and I haven't seen it in
    years.
    | Passcards ? What are those ?
    |
    | Then I have to describe the keypad in detail to try to determine the type
    of
    | alarm so I can show them how to locate the trouble. I suppose if I asked
    if
    | they have read the manual, they'd ask me what that is (if they could even
    | find it..!!!!)
    |
    | I do have a database by customer name, system number, address and phone
    | number, so I can always work things out....but GOLLY.... sometimes I
    really
    | have to wonder.....
    |
    | RHC
    |
    |
    | |
    | Now that I have stated what is ideal, reality is that I
    | > have tried several different things over the years to get customers to
    | > remember what happens when and alarm occurs and what to expect. Waste of
    | > time, money, and energy. Most people cannot remember yesterday. It is
    | > easier
    | > to deal with the few that call in and hold their hand.
    |
    |
     
  8. Crash Gordon

    Crash Gordon Guest

    Yah Ademco and DMP same exit error process. DMP does it only on delay
    zones...cant remember if Ademco is all zones or just delayed ones.

    In an effort to catch them before they get too far away from home we do try
    to call them except I'm really hesistant to dispatch knowing it's an exit
    error. I'm still in a quandry abt this due to our really expensive false
    alarm fines.

    I've also been thinking of accepting a abort/cancel as just that...abort
    dispatch...dont bother calling premise. Accept of course so many clients are
    used to that call when the siren goes off, it will cause confusion.



    |
    | | > Yep...and it may also have been Exit/Error on Vista, in which case if
    | we're
    | > busy we may not call on it either.
    |
    | See now I never understood that, by design an Exit error means (assuming
    | Ademco here) either
    |
    | 1. An entry/exit zone was open when exit time expired
    |
    | 2. An alarm within 2 minutes of arming
    |
    | Now in "theory" the customer should be still at the residence however they
    | may also be tooling down the road while someone is breaking in after
    seeing
    | them leave
    |
    | I would treat it like any burg signal
    |
    |
    |
     
  9. Joe Lucia

    Joe Lucia Guest

    An ABORT is one thing, the user entered the code and canceled the
    alarm.

    But, I agree, An Alarm within 2 minutes of arming is scary to ignore
    but borderline silly to dispatch on.

    I find 2 minutes to be a lot of time. Someone camped out back could
    watch me leave the front way and break in before anyone would think
    anything real could happen. Of course I get SMS messages on alarms so
    I would know, so I'm not worried about it, anymore.
     
  10. Joe Lucia

    Joe Lucia Guest

    By Default, we stopped dispatching when the Abort is received, due to
    possible false-alarm charges (and they were ALWAYS false alarms). Not
    a single dealer or customer had a problem with that change, if they
    noticed at all. We still call, but if we can't get through we won't
    dispatch either (figure if they can Abort the alarm they could also
    press a Panic button or Duress code if they need someone, assuming they
    remember how to do a Duress while under duress). On exit-fault we call
    the prem, if the abort is received we will call the call list before
    the police, then police, then the call list.
     
  11. Crash Gordon

    Crash Gordon Guest

    On the DMP you'd only get the exit error on the delay door, if they walked
    into the pir or another trap we'd get a regular dispatchable burg...so it's
    not tooooo scary. Not sure with Ademco if it works the same.

    The DMP will also sound the siren for 15 seconds to try to catch them before
    they leave the driveway.



    | An ABORT is one thing, the user entered the code and canceled the
    | alarm.
    |
    | But, I agree, An Alarm within 2 minutes of arming is scary to ignore
    | but borderline silly to dispatch on.
    |
    | I find 2 minutes to be a lot of time. Someone camped out back could
    | watch me leave the front way and break in before anyone would think
    | anything real could happen. Of course I get SMS messages on alarms so
    | I would know, so I'm not worried about it, anymore.
    |
     
  12. Guest

    Well, I received another response from my alarm company that was very
    apologetic and honest. Essentially they're saying my central station
    is supposed to call on every alarm even when they receive the cancel
    signal and after further looking into my incident the other day, it was
    simply human error:

    "You are absolutely correct in your statement the Central Station has
    always
    contacted you in the event you disarm the system and transmit a
    "cancel"
    signal immediately upon activation.

    It was in error that we stated that your activations would be
    disregarded
    when a cancel signal is transmitted along with the alarm activation.
    We
    utilize 2 UL Central Stations and even though it is not a UL
    requirement,
    the facility you are reporting to will place a call on all residential
    "cancel" signals to attempt to make contact with someone, however, if
    no
    contact is made, the signal is logged with no Police response due to
    the
    fact the "cancel" indicates an authorized user had shut off the alarm
    system
    correctly. Please, except our apologies for the misstatement, as it
    does
    not apply to your system.


    It is our policy to be up front and as candid as possible, yes, you
    should
    have received a call, as you stated you always have, we researched the
    incident and unfortunately it was human error on the operator's part.
    We do
    not know exactly why the operator that handled your alarm placed no
    call;
    they entered the standard entry that would apply to alarms that are
    flagged
    to be logged with cancel signals.

    We have in place internal procedures to deal with such occurrences and
    ask
    that you accept our apologies for 1st, the issue that you were not
    called as
    you have been used to, and 2nd, the miscommunications on responding to
    you
    initial email inquiry, and lastly, allow us to handle internally the
    issue
    further as we are very concerned about you and your family's trust and
    confidence in our services and will take appropriate steps to ensure
    this
    does not occur again."
     
  13. mikey

    mikey Guest

    I'm surprised. I have all kinds of stuff on my installs. A quick search on
    the address pulls it all up. I can tell most clients what breaker their
    panel is on.
    And ya gotta have a location history. I give the customers operator's
    manuals and copies if they ask for them, most don't. Ha ha, Like he said,
    It's our problem, R.H.
     
  14. mikey

    mikey Guest

    Doesn't that call after a minute thing cause the station a lot of busy
    signal grief?
     
  15. R.H.Campbell

    R.H.Campbell Guest

    Good records are one thing; I definately have those. However, I fail to see
    how total ignorance of the type of alarm or how it works in even the
    simplest fashion is "our problem". Ultimately, it becomes our problem, since
    we have to deal with their total lack of knowledge on their system. And
    there is only so much training you can do if the client simply doesn't care
    (try to keep commercial users especially up to date on their alarm system's
    operation....)

    I don't hold my car manufacturer, or his salesman, responsible because I
    didn't read the owners manual and don't know how things work. And since
    their alarm system is connected ultimately into the cities support system
    (fire and police), they ought to take things a bit more seriously. A lot of
    the time, RTFM really should apply !!

    Nope ! I'm starting to believe there are people who really shouldn't have
    alarm systems....

    RHC
     
  16. Crash Gordon

    Crash Gordon Guest

    No because its rare that someone has to call in, in the past year I've only
    noticed a couple of cancels that came IN.


    | Doesn't that call after a minute thing cause the station a lot of busy
    | signal grief?
    |
    | | > I use refrigerator magnets with our number on it...and I used to have
    | their
    | > account number on it too but that just confused them...so it's just a
    | little
    | > refrig magnet with the three steps to cancel dispatch. Disarm System
    with
    | > your code, If you don't hear from us in 60 secs call this number xxxxxxx
    ,
    | > give your name and password.
    | >
    | >
    | > | > | Yup, you got that right....here's a common scenario:
    | > |
    | > | Customer: My alarm system is beeping, what should I do ?
    | > |
    | > | Me: Ok, first tell me what make of alarm panel you have.
    | > |
    | > | Customer: (...dead silence....) followed by.."How can I tell?"
    | > |
    | > | Me: Ok, is it a white or beige keypad that opens to the side or a
    black
    | > and
    | > | white one that opens up and down ?
    | > |
    | > | Customer: Ugh...well....I can't tell really
    | > |
    | > | Me: Ok, can you give me your system number?
    | > |
    | > | Customer: Where do I find that ?
    | > |
    | > | Me: On the blue folder I gave you when we first put the alarm in, or
    | look
    | > on
    | > | one of your passcards
    | > |
    | > | Customer: Oh, my wife packed the folder away and I haven't seen it in
    | > years.
    | > | Passcards ? What are those ?
    | > |
    | > | Then I have to describe the keypad in detail to try to determine the
    | type
    | > of
    | > | alarm so I can show them how to locate the trouble. I suppose if I
    asked
    | > if
    | > | they have read the manual, they'd ask me what that is (if they could
    | even
    | > | find it..!!!!)
    | > |
    | > | I do have a database by customer name, system number, address and
    phone
    | > | number, so I can always work things out....but GOLLY.... sometimes I
    | > really
    | > | have to wonder.....
    | > |
    | > | RHC
    | > |
    | > |
    | > | | > |
    | > | Now that I have stated what is ideal, reality is that I
    | > | > have tried several different things over the years to get customers
    to
    | > | > remember what happens when and alarm occurs and what to expect.
    Waste
    | of
    | > | > time, money, and energy. Most people cannot remember yesterday. It
    is
    | > | > easier
    | > | > to deal with the few that call in and hold their hand.
    | > |
    | > |
    | >
    | >
    |
    |
    |
     
  17. mikey

    mikey Guest

    Well then... Stop giving them away!
     
  18. R.H.Campbell

    R.H.Campbell Guest

    What's the matter Mike; you get out of bed on the wrong side this morning ?
    If you didn't, you'd know better than to make those kinds of accusations.

    I get fully paid up front for everything I do. I just don't believe it's in
    any customer's interest to sign a long term contract if 1- they pay me full
    and fair market value for the alarm system up front, or...2- they already
    own the system free and clear. If they want to buy a system at less than
    fair market value, I'm not their dealer - period ! Then monitoring is at a
    reasonable price, and includes a totally worry free service plan. I like it;
    customers like it, the only ones I ever hear complain are other dealers.
    All I have to do is sit and wait for the phone to ring !!

    No offence to you, but if other dealers don't like it, that's tough shit !!
    And if that's "giving away alarms", then so be it.

    Just 'cause it's different doesn't make it free. And frankly, I'm tired of
    explaining it over and over !

    RHC
     
  19. Bob Worthy

    Bob Worthy Guest

    Don't they have medicine that helps with days like this?
     
  20. R.H.Campbell

    R.H.Campbell Guest

    Yeah, it's called a holiday ! Obviously both Mike and I both need one ! If
    the weather improves, I'm heading off tomorrow on my motorcycle up into the
    northern part of the province to enjoy Thanksgiving with some of my family.
    If it doesn't stop raining, I'll be sitting here listening to clients whine
    about their alarm systems...$#%$%^^$

    Had one this morning keep telling me her new wireless motions were making a
    high pitched whine. Went over there and it was her hearing aid making the
    whine. Had another one the other day....the glassbreak was whining and
    squealing....replaced it, but it beats me why it was doing that.......

    Gotta love this business sometimes; always something new coming along.....

    RHC
     
Ask a Question
Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?
You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments (here). After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.
Electronics Point Logo
Continue to site
Quote of the day

-