Central Station Cancel Signal

[[email protected]]

I had a false alarm yesterday and didn't receive a cal from the central
station to check in. When I asked them about it, they claimed they had
received a cancel signal along with the alarm and therefore didn't
call. Fine. But I always cancel false alarms immediately and they
have ALWAYS called in the past, at which point I've given them the
password and that was the end of it. I prefer to receive the call, and
don't know if they've recently changed their policies regarding cancel
signals, but can I turn off the cancel signal in the panel? It's an
Ademco 20-PS.

Thanks.

 

[Norm Mugford]

What you speak of is very common.
I would not, however, reprogram the system
to remove the cancel signal.
When your panel was communicating
with the central station (cancel signal), it sent an
electronic cancel, when the central station called your site,
they propably got a ring back from your telephone line due to the fact
that you probably have call waiting, and your panel was communicating.

No matter what happened, I would leave the cancel signal
programmed in your Vista 20 PS and notify the monitoring
station that you want to be contacted on all alarms.
Some central stations require that a cancel signal should
be called on, but if they get no answer, they will not dispatch.
Your alarm company tells the central station how to handle
each type of signal.

Either call the central station or your alarm company to get
your concern corrected to your liking.

Norm Mugford

 

[Crash Gordon]

Yep...and it may also have been Exit/Error on Vista, in which case if we're
busy we may not call on it either.


| What you speak of is very common.
| I would not, however, reprogram the system
| to remove the cancel signal.
| When your panel was communicating
| with the central station (cancel signal), it sent an
| electronic cancel, when the central station called your site,
| they propably got a ring back from your telephone line due to the fact
| that you probably have call waiting, and your panel was communicating.
|
| No matter what happened, I would leave the cancel signal
| programmed in your Vista 20 PS and notify the monitoring
| station that you want to be contacted on all alarms.
| Some central stations require that a cancel signal should
| be called on, but if they get no answer, they will not dispatch.
| Your alarm company tells the central station how to handle
| each type of signal.
|
| Either call the central station or your alarm company to get
| your concern corrected to your liking.
|
| Norm Mugford
|
|
| | > I had a false alarm yesterday and didn't receive a cal from the central
| > station to check in. When I asked them about it, they claimed they had
| > received a cancel signal along with the alarm and therefore didn't
| > call. Fine. But I always cancel false alarms immediately and they
| > have ALWAYS called in the past, at which point I've given them the
| > password and that was the end of it. I prefer to receive the call, and
| > don't know if they've recently changed their policies regarding cancel
| > signals, but can I turn off the cancel signal in the panel? It's an
| > Ademco 20-PS.
| >
| > Thanks.
| >
|
|
|

 

[Bob Worthy]

Unfortunately, customers are not as aware of the all the workings nor do
they ask the question until there is a problem. Is that the customers fault,
the alarm company's fault, who knows. Bottom line is that the alarm company
should do what ever possible to make their customer base aware of any
changes in procedure and the technicians should pay more heed to the little
things when explaining the system. However, give a guy a new computer and a
handbook for dummies and within a month he is hacking the pentagon, so he
should be able minded enough to give some time and consideration to his
security program. Now that I have stated what is ideal, reality is that I
have tried several different things over the years to get customers to
remember what happens when and alarm occurs and what to expect. Waste of
time, money, and energy. Most people cannot remember yesterday. It is easier
to deal with the few that call in and hold their hand.

 

[R.H.Campbell]

Yup, you got that right....here's a common scenario:

Customer: My alarm system is beeping, what should I do ?

Me: Ok, first tell me what make of alarm panel you have.

Customer: (...dead silence....) followed by.."How can I tell?"

Me: Ok, is it a white or beige keypad that opens to the side or a black and
white one that opens up and down ?

Customer: Ugh...well....I can't tell really

Me: Ok, can you give me your system number?

Customer: Where do I find that ?

Me: On the blue folder I gave you when we first put the alarm in, or look on
one of your passcards

Customer: Oh, my wife packed the folder away and I haven't seen it in years.
Passcards ? What are those ?

Then I have to describe the keypad in detail to try to determine the type of
alarm so I can show them how to locate the trouble. I suppose if I asked if
they have read the manual, they'd ask me what that is (if they could even
find it..!!!!)

I do have a database by customer name, system number, address and phone
number, so I can always work things out....but GOLLY.... sometimes I really
have to wonder.....

RHC



Now that I have stated what is ideal, reality is that I

 

[Mark Leuck]

Yep...and it may also have been Exit/Error on Vista, in which case if we're
busy we may not call on it either.

See now I never understood that, by design an Exit error means (assuming
Ademco here) either

1. An entry/exit zone was open when exit time expired

2. An alarm within 2 minutes of arming

Now in "theory" the customer should be still at the residence however they
may also be tooling down the road while someone is breaking in after seeing
them leave

I would treat it like any burg signal

 

[Crash Gordon]

I use refrigerator magnets with our number on it...and I used to have their
account number on it too but that just confused them...so it's just a little
refrig magnet with the three steps to cancel dispatch. Disarm System with
your code, If you don't hear from us in 60 secs call this number xxxxxxx ,
give your name and password.


| Yup, you got that right....here's a common scenario:
|
| Customer: My alarm system is beeping, what should I do ?
|
| Me: Ok, first tell me what make of alarm panel you have.
|
| Customer: (...dead silence....) followed by.."How can I tell?"
|
| Me: Ok, is it a white or beige keypad that opens to the side or a black
and
| white one that opens up and down ?
|
| Customer: Ugh...well....I can't tell really
|
| Me: Ok, can you give me your system number?
|
| Customer: Where do I find that ?
|
| Me: On the blue folder I gave you when we first put the alarm in, or look
on
| one of your passcards
|
| Customer: Oh, my wife packed the folder away and I haven't seen it in
years.
| Passcards ? What are those ?
|
| Then I have to describe the keypad in detail to try to determine the type
of
| alarm so I can show them how to locate the trouble. I suppose if I asked
if
| they have read the manual, they'd ask me what that is (if they could even
| find it..!!!!)
|
| I do have a database by customer name, system number, address and phone
| number, so I can always work things out....but GOLLY.... sometimes I
really
| have to wonder.....
|
| RHC
|
|
| |
| Now that I have stated what is ideal, reality is that I
| > have tried several different things over the years to get customers to
| > remember what happens when and alarm occurs and what to expect. Waste of
| > time, money, and energy. Most people cannot remember yesterday. It is
| > easier
| > to deal with the few that call in and hold their hand.
|
|

 

[Crash Gordon]

Yah Ademco and DMP same exit error process. DMP does it only on delay
zones...cant remember if Ademco is all zones or just delayed ones.

In an effort to catch them before they get too far away from home we do try
to call them except I'm really hesistant to dispatch knowing it's an exit
error. I'm still in a quandry abt this due to our really expensive false
alarm fines.

I've also been thinking of accepting a abort/cancel as just that...abort
dispatch...dont bother calling premise. Accept of course so many clients are
used to that call when the siren goes off, it will cause confusion.



|
| | > Yep...and it may also have been Exit/Error on Vista, in which case if
| we're
| > busy we may not call on it either.
|
| See now I never understood that, by design an Exit error means (assuming
| Ademco here) either
|
| 1. An entry/exit zone was open when exit time expired
|
| 2. An alarm within 2 minutes of arming
|
| Now in "theory" the customer should be still at the residence however they
| may also be tooling down the road while someone is breaking in after
seeing
| them leave
|
| I would treat it like any burg signal
|
|
|

 

[Joe Lucia]

An ABORT is one thing, the user entered the code and canceled the
alarm.

But, I agree, An Alarm within 2 minutes of arming is scary to ignore
but borderline silly to dispatch on.

I find 2 minutes to be a lot of time. Someone camped out back could
watch me leave the front way and break in before anyone would think
anything real could happen. Of course I get SMS messages on alarms so
I would know, so I'm not worried about it, anymore.

 

[Joe Lucia]

By Default, we stopped dispatching when the Abort is received, due to
possible false-alarm charges (and they were ALWAYS false alarms). Not
a single dealer or customer had a problem with that change, if they
noticed at all. We still call, but if we can't get through we won't
dispatch either (figure if they can Abort the alarm they could also
press a Panic button or Duress code if they need someone, assuming they
remember how to do a Duress while under duress). On exit-fault we call
the prem, if the abort is received we will call the call list before
the police, then police, then the call list.

 

[Crash Gordon]

On the DMP you'd only get the exit error on the delay door, if they walked
into the pir or another trap we'd get a regular dispatchable burg...so it's
not tooooo scary. Not sure with Ademco if it works the same.

The DMP will also sound the siren for 15 seconds to try to catch them before
they leave the driveway.



| An ABORT is one thing, the user entered the code and canceled the
| alarm.
|
| But, I agree, An Alarm within 2 minutes of arming is scary to ignore
| but borderline silly to dispatch on.
|
| I find 2 minutes to be a lot of time. Someone camped out back could
| watch me leave the front way and break in before anyone would think
| anything real could happen. Of course I get SMS messages on alarms so
| I would know, so I'm not worried about it, anymore.
|

 

[[email protected]]

Well, I received another response from my alarm company that was very
apologetic and honest. Essentially they're saying my central station
is supposed to call on every alarm even when they receive the cancel
signal and after further looking into my incident the other day, it was
simply human error:

"You are absolutely correct in your statement the Central Station has
always
contacted you in the event you disarm the system and transmit a
"cancel"
signal immediately upon activation.

It was in error that we stated that your activations would be
disregarded
when a cancel signal is transmitted along with the alarm activation.
We
utilize 2 UL Central Stations and even though it is not a UL
requirement,
the facility you are reporting to will place a call on all residential
"cancel" signals to attempt to make contact with someone, however, if
no
contact is made, the signal is logged with no Police response due to
the
fact the "cancel" indicates an authorized user had shut off the alarm
system
correctly. Please, except our apologies for the misstatement, as it
does
not apply to your system.


It is our policy to be up front and as candid as possible, yes, you
should
have received a call, as you stated you always have, we researched the
incident and unfortunately it was human error on the operator's part.
We do
not know exactly why the operator that handled your alarm placed no
call;
they entered the standard entry that would apply to alarms that are
flagged
to be logged with cancel signals.

We have in place internal procedures to deal with such occurrences and
ask
that you accept our apologies for 1st, the issue that you were not
called as
you have been used to, and 2nd, the miscommunications on responding to
you
initial email inquiry, and lastly, allow us to handle internally the
issue
further as we are very concerned about you and your family's trust and
confidence in our services and will take appropriate steps to ensure
this
does not occur again."

 

[mikey]

I'm surprised. I have all kinds of stuff on my installs. A quick search on
the address pulls it all up. I can tell most clients what breaker their
panel is on.
And ya gotta have a location history. I give the customers operator's
manuals and copies if they ask for them, most don't. Ha ha, Like he said,
It's our problem, R.H.

 

[mikey]

Doesn't that call after a minute thing cause the station a lot of busy
signal grief?

 

[R.H.Campbell]

Good records are one thing; I definately have those. However, I fail to see
how total ignorance of the type of alarm or how it works in even the
simplest fashion is "our problem". Ultimately, it becomes our problem, since
we have to deal with their total lack of knowledge on their system. And
there is only so much training you can do if the client simply doesn't care
(try to keep commercial users especially up to date on their alarm system's
operation....)

I don't hold my car manufacturer, or his salesman, responsible because I
didn't read the owners manual and don't know how things work. And since
their alarm system is connected ultimately into the cities support system
(fire and police), they ought to take things a bit more seriously. A lot of
the time, RTFM really should apply !!

Nope ! I'm starting to believe there are people who really shouldn't have
alarm systems....

RHC

 

[Crash Gordon]

No because its rare that someone has to call in, in the past year I've only
noticed a couple of cancels that came IN.


| Doesn't that call after a minute thing cause the station a lot of busy
| signal grief?
|
| | > I use refrigerator magnets with our number on it...and I used to have
| their
| > account number on it too but that just confused them...so it's just a
| little
| > refrig magnet with the three steps to cancel dispatch. Disarm System
with
| > your code, If you don't hear from us in 60 secs call this number xxxxxxx
,
| > give your name and password.
| >
| >
| > | > | Yup, you got that right....here's a common scenario:
| > |
| > | Customer: My alarm system is beeping, what should I do ?
| > |
| > | Me: Ok, first tell me what make of alarm panel you have.
| > |
| > | Customer: (...dead silence....) followed by.."How can I tell?"
| > |
| > | Me: Ok, is it a white or beige keypad that opens to the side or a
black
| > and
| > | white one that opens up and down ?
| > |
| > | Customer: Ugh...well....I can't tell really
| > |
| > | Me: Ok, can you give me your system number?
| > |
| > | Customer: Where do I find that ?
| > |
| > | Me: On the blue folder I gave you when we first put the alarm in, or
| look
| > on
| > | one of your passcards
| > |
| > | Customer: Oh, my wife packed the folder away and I haven't seen it in
| > years.
| > | Passcards ? What are those ?
| > |
| > | Then I have to describe the keypad in detail to try to determine the
| type
| > of
| > | alarm so I can show them how to locate the trouble. I suppose if I
asked
| > if
| > | they have read the manual, they'd ask me what that is (if they could
| even
| > | find it..!!!!)
| > |
| > | I do have a database by customer name, system number, address and
phone
| > | number, so I can always work things out....but GOLLY.... sometimes I
| > really
| > | have to wonder.....
| > |
| > | RHC
| > |
| > |
| > | | > |
| > | Now that I have stated what is ideal, reality is that I
| > | > have tried several different things over the years to get customers
to
| > | > remember what happens when and alarm occurs and what to expect.
Waste
| of
| > | > time, money, and energy. Most people cannot remember yesterday. It
is
| > | > easier
| > | > to deal with the few that call in and hold their hand.
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|
|

 

[mikey]

Good records are one thing; I definately have those. However, I fail to see
how total ignorance of the type of alarm or how it works in even the
simplest fashion is "our problem". Ultimately, it becomes our problem, since
we have to deal with their total lack of knowledge on their system. And
there is only so much training you can do if the client simply doesn't care
(try to keep commercial users especially up to date on their alarm system's
operation....)

I don't hold my car manufacturer, or his salesman, responsible because I
didn't read the owners manual and don't know how things work. And since
their alarm system is connected ultimately into the cities support system
(fire and police), they ought to take things a bit more seriously. A lot of
the time, RTFM really should apply !!

Nope ! I'm starting to believe there are people who really shouldn't have
alarm systems....

Well then... Stop giving them away!

 

[R.H.Campbell]

What's the matter Mike; you get out of bed on the wrong side this morning ?
If you didn't, you'd know better than to make those kinds of accusations.

I get fully paid up front for everything I do. I just don't believe it's in
any customer's interest to sign a long term contract if 1- they pay me full
and fair market value for the alarm system up front, or...2- they already
own the system free and clear. If they want to buy a system at less than
fair market value, I'm not their dealer - period ! Then monitoring is at a
reasonable price, and includes a totally worry free service plan. I like it;
customers like it, the only ones I ever hear complain are other dealers.
All I have to do is sit and wait for the phone to ring !!

No offence to you, but if other dealers don't like it, that's tough shit !!
And if that's "giving away alarms", then so be it.

Just 'cause it's different doesn't make it free. And frankly, I'm tired of
explaining it over and over !

RHC

 

[Bob Worthy]

Don't they have medicine that helps with days like this?

 

[R.H.Campbell]

Yeah, it's called a holiday ! Obviously both Mike and I both need one ! If
the weather improves, I'm heading off tomorrow on my motorcycle up into the
northern part of the province to enjoy Thanksgiving with some of my family.
If it doesn't stop raining, I'll be sitting here listening to clients whine
about their alarm systems...$#%$%^^$

Had one this morning keep telling me her new wireless motions were making a
high pitched whine. Went over there and it was her hearing aid making the
whine. Had another one the other day....the glassbreak was whining and
squealing....replaced it, but it beats me why it was doing that.......

Gotta love this business sometimes; always something new coming along.....

RHC