Maker Pro
Maker Pro

Cellemetry performance question

F

fly in the ointment

Jan 1, 1970
0
I like the cell units too. Just a lot easier for most of my customers to
swallow the cost of the cellemetry unit at 1/3 the price. What are you
using for cell backup?
js
 
T

thesatguy

Jan 1, 1970
0
Yup, these are not dumb guys and there are at least four different sets of
burglars doing pretty much the eaxct same thing only a tad different each
time. They always know where the alarm panel is, they know where the radio
is, they know where the underground cable pops up, etc. They often make a
hole in the roof and then get down in the ceiling and follow the wires
around til they find the panel if they didn't know where it was. Many times
they simply unplug the transformer and unhook the battery in the panel and
thats it.
Due to the heavy number of trunkslammers in this area many stores have two
or three alarm systems installed on the wall in the back rooms and these
guys will always end up making a hole in the ceiling of the closet where the
new alarm panel is hidden. These guys are really sharp. They know we'll be
there in a few minutes if they cut the phone lines so in certain cases they
don't cut them until they have already made a hole in the wall or roof.
 
T

thesatguy

Jan 1, 1970
0
Cost. When I started putting in Uplink and Alarmnet the only cellular units
were those from Tellular and they were $500. - $700. while the telemetry
deals are only $200.
The 2 way alarmnet units are polled every 6 minutes and we don't have any
problem there. Aside from burglars cutting a line we never have phone
trouble.
 
T

thesatguy

Jan 1, 1970
0
The standard Alarmnet is either one-way or two-way radio; one-way is NOT
supervised while two-way is.

Uplink uses the cellular data channel as a network to passs signals back and
forth. It is NOT supervised either although the connection is continuously
tested there's no report when it fails.

Standard Tellular uses standard cellular network and substitutes the
cellular path for the wireline path.
 
J

Jackcsg

Jan 1, 1970
0
If I had too, I'd use the telguard unit. I'm a DMP dealer, and they have a
unit that's Manufactured by them which Interfaces with a DMP Control Panel.
I prefer to use and IP solution which gives me grade AA, with dial back-up.
The IP Router costs me about $225.00 US, and they make a slave unit that
will work on any Manufacturers control panel. But, in the somewhat defense
of AlarmNet, and UpLink, I do not do Residential, so I'm familiar with some
of the more cost effect ways in which dealers choose to go. There good
Residential options, just not for most commercial applications. They're too
slow.

Jack
 
J

Jackcsg

Jan 1, 1970
0
I think last I looked the Tellular unit was around $400, and the UL version
around 1K. Telemetry is cheaper, but it is slower. Watch your application
that's all.

Jack
 
M

Mark Leuck

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jackcsg said:
If I had too, I'd use the telguard unit. I'm a DMP dealer, and they have a
unit that's Manufactured by them which Interfaces with a DMP Control Panel.
I prefer to use and IP solution which gives me grade AA, with dial back-up.
The IP Router costs me about $225.00 US, and they make a slave unit that
will work on any Manufacturers control panel. But, in the somewhat defense
of AlarmNet, and UpLink, I do not do Residential, so I'm familiar with some
of the more cost effect ways in which dealers choose to go. There good
Residential options, just not for most commercial applications. They're too
slow.

Jack

Too slow? Every instance I've worked with them they are within +/- 10
seconds of the land line signal, only limitation is you are trying to send
multiple signals within a given time frame

My only complaint with Telgard is it can't handle the SIA reporting format,
other than that it's an excellent unit
 
J

Jackcsg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Mark...your full of shit. Unless your receiving signals 90 plus seconds from
the time the digital picks up the Line. I have installed several of these
devices. I have even tested these through the Army Corp of Engineers to
validate the transmission times. They failed. These devices are not
certified to be used in any Government Installations, nor would they comply
with times required for UL for UL Certified Installations. They're good, and
sometimes the only options (Financially) for Dealers end Users. There are
other Cell Pack Manufacturers that can transmit SIA, as they pass the data
the panel transmits. Ademco AlarmNet, with their new IP Router claims to
receive, and re-transmit these signals in under 6 seconds to any Central
Station. Like their wireless Telemetry units these devices are slaves. The
offer two-way communication, but dealers don't realize the flip side of the
two-way is only for supervision. You can't connect, and communicate with
their panels for, say downloading. DMP Routes these same signals in 40-70
Mille-seconds, and is not a slave. You have full two-way communications,
including supervision. So maybe it's your equipment? But your equipment
contains the method, choose wisely.

Jack
 
M

Mark Leuck

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jackcsg said:
Mark...your full of shit. Unless your receiving signals 90 plus seconds from
the time the digital picks up the Line. I have installed several of these
devices. I have even tested these through the Army Corp of Engineers to
validate the transmission times. They failed. These devices are not
certified to be used in any Government Installations, nor would they comply
with times required for UL for UL Certified Installations.

I wasn't talking about passing any certification, I was talking about how
long it takes to send a signal and in every case with every brand I've
tested over the past 5 years (Telgard, Uplink, Alarmnet and Skyroute) its
been +/- 10 seconds of the land line signal

BTW: Thanks for telling me I'm full of shit, I generally get that from
morons like Jim :)
They're good, and
sometimes the only options (Financially) for Dealers end Users. There are
other Cell Pack Manufacturers that can transmit SIA, as they pass the data
the panel transmits.

Skyroute will and Uplink will but sends its own signals independent of what
the panel sends, The TelGard TG-100 can't and neither can Alarmnet.
Ademco AlarmNet, with their new IP Router claims to
receive, and re-transmit these signals in under 6 seconds to any Central
Station. Like their wireless Telemetry units these devices are slaves. The
offer two-way communication, but dealers don't realize the flip side of the
two-way is only for supervision. You can't connect, and communicate with
their panels for, say downloading. DMP Routes these same signals in 40-70
Mille-seconds, and is not a slave. You have full two-way communications,
including supervision. So maybe it's your equipment? But your equipment
contains the method, choose wisely.

Jack

I also wasn't talking about 2-way supervision or downloading. DMP routes
over the internet so its a different story although the Ademco 7845i I have
in my house and the Symphony at work is just as fast as the DMP and far
easier to set up (in my opinion). I've also downloaded an NX-8E and a
Radionics 9412 over a network. Each is extremely fast but each also has the
usual problems with internet reliability
 
J

Jackcsg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ademco 7845i I have
in my house and the Symphony at work is just as fast as the DMP.

Mark, in the amount of time that you would receive a signal from AlarmNet, I
have received the signal, and am looking at the Video that verifies it. As
for the ease of installation and programming, it takes far longer to run the
CAT5 to the control panel. Every piece of DMP gear is programmable with a
simple keypad, which by the way is compatible (unlike ALL Manufacturers)
with every control panel they've ever made.

But don't take my word for it. Pretend you just received an alarm signal in
40-70 Mille-seconds, and click here:
http://instalink.myvnc.com

Jack
 
J

Jackcsg

Jan 1, 1970
0
I'm learning around here who smokes crack, who deals it, and the guys who
bust people for using it. I don't mean that literally of course; it's figure
of speech. (for those who use it)

Jack
 
M

Mark Leuck

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jackcsg said:
Mark, in the amount of time that you would receive a signal from AlarmNet, I
have received the signal, and am looking at the Video that verifies it. As
for the ease of installation and programming, it takes far longer to run the
CAT5 to the control panel. Every piece of DMP gear is programmable with a
simple keypad, which by the way is compatible (unlike ALL Manufacturers)
with every control panel they've ever made.

But don't take my word for it. Pretend you just received an alarm signal in
40-70 Mille-seconds, and click here:
http://instalink.myvnc.com

Jack

As I recall the original topic was about cellular but since you brought
internet monitoring into it I get the signals just as fast with the Ademco
unit
 
M

Mark Leuck

Jan 1, 1970
0
Alarminex said:
You have to understand what a hypocrite Mark is, before you start trying to
convince him of something. He advocates ignoring people here in the group that
one doesn't like ...... but just can't seem to do it himself.

Did I ever say I didn't like someone here?
Also ....you see, he thinks that the time difference in sending one 4/2 format
code and one CID code makes the worrllllllld of difference. But in this case he
doesn't seem to think that the difference between 10 seconds and 40 ms .........
is important.

Where you get this I have no idea, in the past I've stated to YOU that
several signals in 4/2 can take up to a minute where several CID signals
take maybe 20 seconds from start of call to finish
But ......... you were accurate in saying he's full of shit...... because it's
obviously replaced his brains. Fondly referred to as SFB.
Jim

Full stop!
:)
 
M

Mark Leuck

Jan 1, 1970
0
Alarminex said:
As far as I know, the Alarmnet 7845CZ will send a 24 hour or monthly
supervisory signal (programable) and monitors the Cellular link and can cause
a failure signal to be sent via landline, if it's wired and programed to do so.
It's not every six minutes but it is some level of supervision.
Jim

(Email accepted only upon request.)

It will send a supervisory signal to AlarmNet but if it loses the link to
the local cell tower its almost immediate. You may be talking about 2
different supervisory conditions, The 7845i Internet module does the same
thing
 
J

Jackcsg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Mark, if that's your perception, that's fine. I'm not knocking Ademco, they
do make reliable products. And eventually, they do catch up to the rest of
the industry.

Jack
 
M

Mark Leuck

Jan 1, 1970
0
I'd say, at least with Internet monitoring, they have surpassed the rest of
the industry in many respects.
 
J

Jackcsg

Jan 1, 1970
0
In what respect? By profiting from it as a third party vendor? When you can
connect to an Ademco control panel and program it from the Internet, then
I'll be impressed!, and they'll be caught up! Ademco can't due that yet,
which most of the TCP/IP based routers can, so if that's surpassing the
industry, your perception needs to be broadened. You might want to even
investigate a few facts, first.

Jack
 
M

Mark Leuck

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jackcsg said:
In what respect? By profiting from it as a third party vendor? When you can
connect to an Ademco control panel and program it from the Internet, then
I'll be impressed!, and they'll be caught up! Ademco can't due that yet,
which most of the TCP/IP based routers can, so if that's surpassing the
industry, your perception needs to be broadened. You might want to even
investigate a few facts, first.

Jack

I already did, I'm not referring to programming it but instead making it
more useable for the customer, I can specify with Symphony web access to
various options such as stock quotes, weather etc, it also will have the
capability to remotely control the system as well as remote video and
heating/air conditioning and it makes a decent alpha keypad.

One question about DMP, if the central station or the customer switches ISP
providers does this require reprogramming the internet module like
Radionics?
 
J

Jackcsg

Jan 1, 1970
0
One question about DMP, if the central station or the customer switches ISP
providers does this require reprogramming the internet module like
Radionics?

It depends. If your gateway changes, you will have to reprogram any IP
address. If a customer switches ISP's, and was using DHCP, the unit would
not need to be re-programmed. If the customer was using an "static" IP, and
they all changed, then yes. If a customer changes CS, obviously a new
address would be required. ALL of which can be done remotely, including any
Firmware changes, port assignments, IP, etc. The control panels can be
"trapped" and all programming parameters can be changed at any time, across
the Internet. DMP does have a browser based interface that will do
essentially the same as the Symphony. I do like the interface Ademco has for
Web based control. User friendly, most dealer friendly, it comes both ways
with DMP. I have "instant" access to ALL levels of programming with DMP,
along with user functions, including locking/unlocking doors (16), throwing
relays, (upto 200), including X-10, and Video Verification through a
"hyperlink" in my CS automation software. Hey what's the cost on that
Symphony Interface anyway? How is it to program?

Jack
 
Top