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Discussion in 'Security Alarms' started by Socrates, Aug 26, 2005.

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  1. Jackcsg

    Jackcsg Guest

    LOL, but what an easy task it would be...
  2. J. Sloud

    J. Sloud Guest

    I'm talking about the high-end of the video market: Securing airports,
    seaports, military bases, sesnitive government buildings, nuclear
    facilities, etc. The technology used in these applications is
    different than what you know and use.
  3. J. Sloud

    J. Sloud Guest

    Twisted pair is just another way of transmitting analog video signals.
    What I'm talking about is manipulating digital video. Once video
    signals are encoded at the camera level, they can be transmitted like
    any other type of network data. They can be viewed, recorded,
    manipulated, played back, etc at many different sites and in many
    different ways. Virtual switches, muxes, and viewing workstations
    mean IP video is much more flexible and powerful that analog. Don't
    worry, you'll learn about this stuff soon enough.

    DVRs are not 100% flexible in the way I'm talking about. With
    traditional DVR's you are limited by the location of the equipment.
    IP based systems allow you to record video anywhere on the network, at
    multiple sites on the network. You can view and control any or all
    cameras with a workstation located anywhere in real time. You can
    even decode the video signals back to analog and process them using
    traditional switches, muxes, DVR's, and monitors for legacy

    You're right in the limted world you know. The customers I'm talking
    about have gigabit networks. Bandwidth is the biggest challenge.
    Any common DVR can be connected to and used to view the cameras that
    are connected to it remotely. However, true IP video allows each
    viewing to connect directly to individual cameras and to manipulate
    the video in ways not possible with traditional DVRs.
    Wrong. The best wireless stuff out there is more reliable than all
    but the most hardened cabled installations. With wireless, you can
    create redundant signal paths. IP video also allows you to record at
    the edge with remote video recorders, so if transmission is cut with
    the NVRs, you still have recording that is buffered and transmitted as
    soon as connectivity is restored.
    I spend enough time on the interent already without joining a web
    based CCTV forum. Btw, this is a newsgroup, not a forum, and CCTV is
    certainly on-topic here since it's the fastest growing segment of our

    Here's two real world examples of the use of wireless CCTV where
    cabled systems proved to be far too costly to implement or the
    customer liked the flexibility that wireless can provide:

    Case Study:
    Port of Oakland

    Addressing America's Seaports

    After September 11th, the federal government declared port security an
    even higher priority and hurried to make funds available for security
    system upgrades. The Port of Oakland, one of the nation's strategic
    seaports, was among the first to receive security grants to improve
    the security of its facilities. In addition, several port tenants also
    received grants to support security enhancements to specific terminals
    or tenant security programs. The Port is made up of seven active
    container terminals and two intermodal rail facilities that move
    nearly 23 million metric revenue tons of food and materials between
    the United States and its international trading partners, Hawaii and
    U.S. Trust Territories.

    The Port of Oakland received proposals from contractors nationwide,
    with bids ranging from a low of $10.9 million to a high of nearly $22
    million, significantly above its available budget. In April 2003, the
    Port of Oakland signed a $4.75 million maritime security enhancement
    contract with ADT® Security Services, Inc. To meet the security needs
    within the established budget, ADT developed an integrated security
    solution including automated access control, video surveillance,
    perimeter intrusion detection and an integrated communications
    infrastructure. Not only would ADT be providing the security systems,
    the team would be responsible for system maintenance, electronic
    access control enhancements and other sole source system expansions.
    The proposed system met all of the Federal Homeland Security criteria
    and commenced implementation shortly thereafter.

    ADT recruited Tyco sister company, Earth Tech, an industry leader and
    global provider of engineering, architecture, environmental,
    infrastructure development and facility operation services, to perform
    all of the construction management tasks. The team analyzed
    requirements and eliminated 31 miles of trenching through the use of
    an encrypted wireless network. This system schedule would save the
    Port millions of dollars in labor and expenses and reduce the
    possibility of terminal operation disruption during the installation

    The new baseline security management system includes firewalls,
    password-protected commands and control capabilities through a remote
    web-enabled management system for Port terminals. The integrated
    system will help ensure secure and fast communication among a variety
    of agencies in the event of an emergency.
    "Maintaining the safety and security of Port workers and visitors, and
    the integrity of our seaport operations are of paramount importance,"
    said Tay Yoshitani, executive director of the Port of Oakland. "This
    contract provides us an exciting opportunity to harness ADT's renowned
    experience and professionalism and the latest technologies available
    to deliver a superior integrated security operation at our maritime

    Here's another:

    ADT to Design and Install Video Intrusion Detection System at Boston's
    Logan International Airport

    BOCA RATON, Fla., May 3 /PRNewswire/ -- ADT Security Services Inc., a
    unit of Tyco Fire & Security, today announced it was awarded the
    contract to provide a video intrusion detection and reporting system
    at Boston's Logan International Airport and other properties operated
    by the Massachusetts Port Authority (Massport). The system will help
    monitor Massport's waterfront perimeter.

    The contract calls for the installation of sensor devices to detect
    perimeter movement, automated surveillance software from Atlanta-based
    VistaScape Security Systems, a wireless network and continuing system
    maintenance. Work on the project will begin immediately.

    "We were looking for a security solution that could seamlessly
    integrate the best of the proven security products on the market into
    one comprehensive system," said Dennis Treece, director of corporate
    security for the Massachusetts Port Authority, which operates Logan
    International. "We were happy to select ADT and VistaScape to meet
    this challenge."

    The system to be installed by ADT is capable of detecting intruders at
    night and during poor weather conditions. The detection devices will
    be integrated with VistaScape's SiteIQ(TM) automated surveillance
    software, which will automatically trigger an audible alarm when
    violations of security rules, such as movement in restricted areas,
    are detected. The automated surveillance software provides full-time
    monitoring of incoming video signals, improving the performance of
    on-site security personnel and permitting them to extend their
    coverage to other areas of concern.

    The completed system will also feature a wireless network that can
    give Massport security staff firewalled, secure command and control
    capabilities through a wireless, Web-enabled remote management system.

    Paul Brisgone, director of National Government Sales for ADT's Federal
    Systems Division, said that before beginning field work at Logan, ADT
    created a working model of the system in a laboratory environment to
    minimize complications encountered on-site to help find solutions
    prior to installation.

    "ADT was able to provide a low-risk, proven solution that incorporated
    the best security products currently available," Brisgone said.

    Joining ADT on the project team as on-site project manager will be
    another Tyco International unit, Earth Tech Inc. Previously, ADT and
    Earth Tech teamed up to design and install a $4.75 million maritime
    security enhancement project at the Port of Oakland.

    Currently, ADT, through its Federal Systems Division, helps secure 19
    of the top 30 busiest airports in the United States.

    The Massachusetts Port Authority is an independent, financially self-
    sustaining public authority operating facilities that employ more than
    20,000 people and annually generates more than $8 billion in revenue
    for the region's economy. Logan International Airport is the nation's
    18th busiest airport and New England's largest transportation center,
    serving more than 23 million passengers each year. Logan handles more
    than 1 billion pounds of high value cargo and mail and employs over
    15,000 workers.

    Celebrating its 130th anniversary, ADT Security Services, Inc., a unit
    of Tyco Fire & Security, is the largest provider of electronic
    security services to more than six million commercial, government and
    residential customers throughout North America. ADT's total security
    solutions include intrusion, fire protection, closed circuit
    television, access control, critical condition monitoring, electronic
    article surveillance, radio frequency identification (RFID) and
    integrated systems. ADT's Web site address is .

    Tyco International Ltd. is a global, diversified company that provides
    vital products and services to customers in five business segments:
    Fire & Security, Electronics, Healthcare, Engineered Products &
    Services, and Plastics & Adhesives. With 2004 revenue of $40 billion,
    Tyco employs approximately 250,000 people worldwide. More information
    on Tyco can be found at .
  4. J. Sloud

    J. Sloud Guest

    How many million dollar CCTV jobs did you do last year? Then you
    haven't seen it all yet.
    How about better than DVD quality video? Is that degraded?
    Post any "reason" you think you have. I'll shoot it down very
    quickly. The other issue with IP video is bandwidth.

    And seaports and airports and t/s government facilities.
    Wrong. You can get 4 CIF images at 30 FPS per camera all day long
    with common IP video products.
  5. Jackcsg

    Jackcsg Guest

    That's what I'm talking about!
    You can either push New Technologies....
    or be pulled along with them...
    One will keep you in business
  6. Guest

    yall too funny .. .. ADT is a joke. Now, "email" me an app where you
    think a DVR system cant be used, and ill spec it out for you - free of
    charge. :)
  7. Guest

    yall just andry cause i throw out the systems you sell them and give
    them something better for less money :-0
  8. Jackcsg

    Jackcsg Guest

    I have an application where I need a Camera on a remote light pole. (1)
    obviously I need video (2) I need two-way audio (3) I need some alarm input
    capabilities for a few outdoor Motion Detectors, tamper alarms (4) I need to
    be able to turn on some 500 watt quartz lights, see the area in the dark,
    remotely, and/or locally.
    I need to be able to control these devices both on site, and off across the
    Internet. Oh, and I need to record ALL video and audio from these locations.
    Trenching is not an option, it's an asphalt parking lot. The poles are about
    200 yards from the building. Also, there are 4 more camera locations located
    throughout the facility, which need to operate in the same manner. I also
    need remote monitoring that is false alarm free.

    There you go! Put it together for me. 6 cameras total. 2 on poles, and 4
    remotely located on different building throughout the facility. They need to
    have full PTZ capabilities, and offer a night viewing mode .09 lux or

    Get back to me....
  9. J. Sloud

    J. Sloud Guest

    ADT is a joke? How many 10 million dollar projects have you done? ADT
    in many respects invented this industry and still has huge influence.
    Open your eyes my friend. You may learn something. I just gave you
    two real world scenarios that used wireless point to point and IP
    backbone communications as well as networked video. If the United
    State's top security integrators and defense contractors could not
    come up with a better solution, I doubt you could either. Oakland was
    handed to ADT because they were the only company who could come close
    to the customer's homeland security grant amount. ADT won MassPort
    because they offered the best technology and during testing, it
    actually did everything it was supposed to. Btw, the total between
    these two projects is over $15 million, which I assume is a little out
    of your league.
  10. Jackcsg

    Jackcsg Guest

    Easy John. Don't beat up on old Rory.
    You'd have to narrow it down to 98% of the industry, including ADT
    (non-Government sectors), and every National.
    It's an industry wide dilemma. Few can see the potential, even fewer can
    comprehend the potential. This industry has the ability to make everything
    easier, faster, more reliable, false alarm free, and cheaper (cost
    effective). Unfortunately, it's going to take another decade of 80's
    technology to realize it, as the technology passes most bye. Most of the
    "Old Dawgs" with their "it isn't broke, don't fix it" mentality just aren't
    paying attention. The fact of the matter is, this 80's mentality has been
    broke for over thirty years, and damn near since the inception of the
    Digital Dialer. Most just seem to focus on the sales numbers, not the
    impact. I ask dealers/competitors/customers this question all the time...

    "What's your perception on the impact the security industry has provided
    over the last 30 years"

    It's a question for all to answer, and highly educational.

  11. Guest

    "ADT is a joke? How many 10 million dollar projects have you done? ADT
    in many respects invented this industry and still has huge influence.
    Open your eyes my friend. You may learn something. I just gave you
    two real world scenarios that used wireless point to point and IP
    backbone communications as well as networked video. If the United
    State's top security integrators and defense contractors could not
    come up with a better solution, I doubt you could either. Oakland was
    handed to ADT because they were the only company who could come close
    to the customer's homeland security grant amount. ADT won MassPort
    because they offered the best technology and during testing, it
    actually did everything it was supposed to. Btw, the total between
    these two projects is over $15 million, which I assume is a little out
    of your league. "
    I only deal with millionaires. ADT turned down some large jobs that my
    US colleagues had to take over, which I have consulted on, those same
    colleagues deal with US Military and Government. Now im talking CCTV
    and thats all I care about. And nothing is out of my league. I
    typically get called in when noone else can do it, extreme jobs. I dont
    deal with distributors, I deal direct with manufacturers, US, Canada,
    and world wide. So if you want to do IP cams thats fine, there is
    obviously an industry for it and more power to you, but I deal with
    CCTV, which can be very high quality and expandable once done
    correctly, not too mention very stable and secure, and nowadays is
    blended in with IP surveillance and very advanced.

    For Jack please email me the info so I can spec it, not on this

    PS. who is rory?
  12. Jackcsg

    Jackcsg Guest

    Sorry. There used to be a guy in here from the Bahamas named Rory. Thought
    you were the same guy...
    I'd be glad to discuss with you this camera installation.
    send me an email: jackcsg at Juno dot com

  13. J. Sloud

    J. Sloud Guest


    It's an interesting question. Thirty years ago, the electronic
    security industry was fire and burglar alarms. There was no real
    CCTV, access control, inventory control, etc. The industry is so
    diverse now that it's almost impossible for a company, let alone a
    single person, to be an expert on every faction. I've chosen to
    concentrate on that part of the business that I enjoy and that I feel
    affects the most people in a positive way. We're involved in cutting
    edge technology and the real world application of such. Most of my
    direct customer contacts are with government agencies and large
    private comapnies with deep pockets and a need for real security.

    The "mainstream" part of this industry will benefit from cutting edge
    technology being deployed in DHS/ DoD applications in the same way
    that passenger cars benefit from auto racing. Intelligent video
    analytics will soon be integrated into common DVR's. Virtual
    tripwires may replace PE beams and other BA devices, and central
    station video alarm verification will become much more common. IP
    video will also make an impact. All the major manufacturers are
    betting on it from AD to Bosch to Pelco. I'm not sure how it will
    play out considering the limitations of traditional 10/100 Ethernet.
    The flexibility of hanging viewing, recording, processing, and archive
    storage anywhere on the network makes the architecture of these
    systems revoluntionary in large scale applications.

    When people who aren't involved in the leading edge, they get left
    behind when things change. IP and wireless video are legitmate
    technologies now for many medium to large commercial clients. Those
    of us who are comfortable with these technologies will take jobs away
    from the companies who aren't.
  14. Jackcsg

    Jackcsg Guest

    I feel the same way. Most people don't get the opportunity to learn and
    install what's out there.
    Creatively, most of the "limitations" with Ethernet are near non existant.
    It's this platform that most people are more familiar with as a 0-300'
    Fact is, it's really a 0-25 Mile extension locally, and a world wide
    extension overall. Most people see their systems limited by the amount of
    zones, readers, cameras, etc. I see the limitations in IP addresses, 65,535
    of them. That's the flexibility I see.
    Exactly. It's an open road.
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