CCTV Cameras

[Jackcsg]

I can just picture this..our friend in the bahamas in front of his monitor
and saying...one day i will rule the bahamas!!wait till all my wireless cam
work..i will control the whole country...(follow a mad laught)... ;-)

LOL, but what an easy task it would be...

 

[J. Sloud]

I dont know what industry you are talking about, Im talking about CCTV.

I'm talking about the high-end of the video market: Securing airports,
seaports, military bases, sesnitive government buildings, nuclear
facilities, etc. The technology used in these applications is
different than what you know and use.

 

[J. Sloud]

Why would I use IP when I use twisted pair gear like NVT and Nitek, and
use Amplified Gear, which tie right into my rack mount DVR servers.

Twisted pair is just another way of transmitting analog video signals.
What I'm talking about is manipulating digital video. Once video
signals are encoded at the camera level, they can be transmitted like
any other type of network data. They can be viewed, recorded,
manipulated, played back, etc at many different sites and in many
different ways. Virtual switches, muxes, and viewing workstations
mean IP video is much more flexible and powerful that analog. Don't
worry, you'll learn about this stuff soon enough.

They come in expandable rack mount gear for 100% flexebility. And then
I get real high crisp quality. DVRs are expanable simply by adding more
cards.

DVRs are not 100% flexible in the way I'm talking about. With
traditional DVR's you are limited by the location of the equipment.
IP based systems allow you to record video anywhere on the network, at
multiple sites on the network. You can view and control any or all
cameras with a workstation located anywhere in real time. You can
even decode the video signals back to analog and process them using
traditional switches, muxes, DVR's, and monitors for legacy
applications.

With the current IP technology DVRs will not get replaced.

You're right in the limted world you know. The customers I'm talking
about have gigabit networks. Bandwidth is the biggest challenge.

We
also use Network software that can view thousands of DVRs and cameras,
and record remotely if needed, with still having a DVR at the location
which is recording in high quality. Also we can view IP cameras if we
need to.

Any common DVR can be connected to and used to view the cameras that
are connected to it remotely. However, true IP video allows each
viewing to connect directly to individual cameras and to manipulate
the video in ways not possible with traditional DVRs.

Wireless should always be used as a last resort, for any application.
Wired will always be more reliable, especially with video.

Wrong. The best wireless stuff out there is more reliable than all
but the most hardened cabled installations. With wireless, you can
create redundant signal paths. IP video also allows you to record at
the edge with remote video recorders, so if transmission is cut with
the NVRs, you still have recording that is buffered and transmitted as
soon as connectivity is restored.

Care to discuss it more we have many threads on this over at:
www.cctvforum.com - I dont wish to discuss it anymore on an "alarm"
forum.

I spend enough time on the interent already without joining a web
based CCTV forum. Btw, this is a newsgroup, not a forum, and CCTV is
certainly on-topic here since it's the fastest growing segment of our
industry.


Here's two real world examples of the use of wireless CCTV where
cabled systems proved to be far too costly to implement or the
customer liked the flexibility that wireless can provide:

Case Study:
Port of Oakland

Addressing America's Seaports


Situation
After September 11th, the federal government declared port security an
even higher priority and hurried to make funds available for security
system upgrades. The Port of Oakland, one of the nation's strategic
seaports, was among the first to receive security grants to improve
the security of its facilities. In addition, several port tenants also
received grants to support security enhancements to specific terminals
or tenant security programs. The Port is made up of seven active
container terminals and two intermodal rail facilities that move
nearly 23 million metric revenue tons of food and materials between
the United States and its international trading partners, Hawaii and
U.S. Trust Territories.


Solution
The Port of Oakland received proposals from contractors nationwide,
with bids ranging from a low of $10.9 million to a high of nearly $22
million, significantly above its available budget. In April 2003, the
Port of Oakland signed a $4.75 million maritime security enhancement
contract with ADT® Security Services, Inc. To meet the security needs
within the established budget, ADT developed an integrated security
solution including automated access control, video surveillance,
perimeter intrusion detection and an integrated communications
infrastructure. Not only would ADT be providing the security systems,
the team would be responsible for system maintenance, electronic
access control enhancements and other sole source system expansions.
The proposed system met all of the Federal Homeland Security criteria
and commenced implementation shortly thereafter.


Implementation
ADT recruited Tyco sister company, Earth Tech, an industry leader and
global provider of engineering, architecture, environmental,
infrastructure development and facility operation services, to perform
all of the construction management tasks. The team analyzed
requirements and eliminated 31 miles of trenching through the use of
an encrypted wireless network. This system schedule would save the
Port millions of dollars in labor and expenses and reduce the
possibility of terminal operation disruption during the installation
process.


Results
The new baseline security management system includes firewalls,
password-protected commands and control capabilities through a remote
web-enabled management system for Port terminals. The integrated
system will help ensure secure and fast communication among a variety
of agencies in the event of an emergency.
"Maintaining the safety and security of Port workers and visitors, and
the integrity of our seaport operations are of paramount importance,"
said Tay Yoshitani, executive director of the Port of Oakland. "This
contract provides us an exciting opportunity to harness ADT's renowned
experience and professionalism and the latest technologies available
to deliver a superior integrated security operation at our maritime
terminals."


Here's another:

ADT to Design and Install Video Intrusion Detection System at Boston's
Logan International Airport


BOCA RATON, Fla., May 3 /PRNewswire/ -- ADT Security Services Inc., a
unit of Tyco Fire & Security, today announced it was awarded the
contract to provide a video intrusion detection and reporting system
at Boston's Logan International Airport and other properties operated
by the Massachusetts Port Authority (Massport). The system will help
monitor Massport's waterfront perimeter.

The contract calls for the installation of sensor devices to detect
perimeter movement, automated surveillance software from Atlanta-based
VistaScape Security Systems, a wireless network and continuing system
maintenance. Work on the project will begin immediately.

"We were looking for a security solution that could seamlessly
integrate the best of the proven security products on the market into
one comprehensive system," said Dennis Treece, director of corporate
security for the Massachusetts Port Authority, which operates Logan
International. "We were happy to select ADT and VistaScape to meet
this challenge."

The system to be installed by ADT is capable of detecting intruders at
night and during poor weather conditions. The detection devices will
be integrated with VistaScape's SiteIQ(TM) automated surveillance
software, which will automatically trigger an audible alarm when
violations of security rules, such as movement in restricted areas,
are detected. The automated surveillance software provides full-time
monitoring of incoming video signals, improving the performance of
on-site security personnel and permitting them to extend their
coverage to other areas of concern.

The completed system will also feature a wireless network that can
give Massport security staff firewalled, secure command and control
capabilities through a wireless, Web-enabled remote management system.

Paul Brisgone, director of National Government Sales for ADT's Federal
Systems Division, said that before beginning field work at Logan, ADT
created a working model of the system in a laboratory environment to
minimize complications encountered on-site to help find solutions
prior to installation.

"ADT was able to provide a low-risk, proven solution that incorporated
the best security products currently available," Brisgone said.

Joining ADT on the project team as on-site project manager will be
another Tyco International unit, Earth Tech Inc. Previously, ADT and
Earth Tech teamed up to design and install a $4.75 million maritime
security enhancement project at the Port of Oakland.

Currently, ADT, through its Federal Systems Division, helps secure 19
of the top 30 busiest airports in the United States.

The Massachusetts Port Authority is an independent, financially self-
sustaining public authority operating facilities that employ more than
20,000 people and annually generates more than $8 billion in revenue
for the region's economy. Logan International Airport is the nation's
18th busiest airport and New England's largest transportation center,
serving more than 23 million passengers each year. Logan handles more
than 1 billion pounds of high value cargo and mail and employs over
15,000 workers.

Celebrating its 130th anniversary, ADT Security Services, Inc., a unit
of Tyco Fire & Security, is the largest provider of electronic
security services to more than six million commercial, government and
residential customers throughout North America. ADT's total security
solutions include intrusion, fire protection, closed circuit
television, access control, critical condition monitoring, electronic
article surveillance, radio frequency identification (RFID) and
integrated systems. ADT's Web site address is http://www.adt.com/ .

Tyco International Ltd. is a global, diversified company that provides
vital products and services to customers in five business segments:
Fire & Security, Electronics, Healthcare, Engineered Products &
Services, and Plastics & Adhesives. With 2004 revenue of $40 billion,
Tyco employs approximately 250,000 people worldwide. More information
on Tyco can be found at http://www.tyco.com/ .

 

[J. Sloud]

I know whats out there, seen it, used it, been there, done it. Recently
changed out a few Wireless IP systems due to interference, and low
quality video in highest mode.

How many million dollar CCTV jobs did you do last year? Then you
haven't seen it all yet.

Network Video = Degraded IMAGE QUALITY - didn't say speed. Lower the
quality and you get higher speed, thats simple.

How about better than DVD quality video? Is that degraded?

Network cameras will never work here. As you should know, they are
still rarely used by CCTV "professionals" in most parts of the world,
and for good reasons I wont post here.

Post any "reason" you think you have. I'll shoot it down very
quickly. The other issue with IP video is bandwidth.

Mostly DIYers and PC guys are
using them.

And seaports and airports and t/s government facilities.

If you want High quality recordings you cannot use IP
cameras. The same goes for installers that use PC based DVRs and set
the record quality on low, or use low resolution CCTV cameras.

Wrong. You can get 4 CIF images at 30 FPS per camera all day long
with common IP video products.

 

[Jackcsg]

That's what I'm talking about!
You can either push New Technologies....
or be pulled along with them...
One will keep you in business

 

[[email protected]]

yall too funny .. .. ADT is a joke. Now, "email" me an app where you
think a DVR system cant be used, and ill spec it out for you - free of
charge.

 

[[email protected]]

yall just andry cause i throw out the systems you sell them and give
them something better for less money :-0

 

[Jackcsg]

I have an application where I need a Camera on a remote light pole. (1)
obviously I need video (2) I need two-way audio (3) I need some alarm input
capabilities for a few outdoor Motion Detectors, tamper alarms (4) I need to
be able to turn on some 500 watt quartz lights, see the area in the dark,
remotely, and/or locally.
I need to be able to control these devices both on site, and off across the
Internet. Oh, and I need to record ALL video and audio from these locations.
Trenching is not an option, it's an asphalt parking lot. The poles are about
200 yards from the building. Also, there are 4 more camera locations located
throughout the facility, which need to operate in the same manner. I also
need remote monitoring that is false alarm free.

There you go! Put it together for me. 6 cameras total. 2 on poles, and 4
remotely located on different building throughout the facility. They need to
have full PTZ capabilities, and offer a night viewing mode .09 lux or
better.

Get back to me....
Jack

 

[J. Sloud]

yall too funny .. .. ADT is a joke. Now, "email" me an app where you
think a DVR system cant be used, and ill spec it out for you - free of
charge.

ADT is a joke? How many 10 million dollar projects have you done? ADT
in many respects invented this industry and still has huge influence.
Open your eyes my friend. You may learn something. I just gave you
two real world scenarios that used wireless point to point and IP
backbone communications as well as networked video. If the United
State's top security integrators and defense contractors could not
come up with a better solution, I doubt you could either. Oakland was
handed to ADT because they were the only company who could come close
to the customer's homeland security grant amount. ADT won MassPort
because they offered the best technology and during testing, it
actually did everything it was supposed to. Btw, the total between
these two projects is over $15 million, which I assume is a little out
of your league.

 

[Jackcsg]

ADT is a joke? How many 10 million dollar projects have you done? ADT
in many respects invented this industry and still has huge influence.
Open your eyes my friend. You may learn something. I just gave you
two real world scenarios that used wireless point to point and IP
backbone communications as well as networked video. If the United
State's top security integrators and defense contractors could not
come up with a better solution, I doubt you could either. Oakland was
handed to ADT because they were the only company who could come close
to the customer's homeland security grant amount. ADT won MassPort
because they offered the best technology and during testing, it
actually did everything it was supposed to. Btw, the total between
these two projects is over $15 million, which I assume is a little out
of your league.

Easy John. Don't beat up on old Rory.
You'd have to narrow it down to 98% of the industry, including ADT
(non-Government sectors), and every National.
It's an industry wide dilemma. Few can see the potential, even fewer can
comprehend the potential. This industry has the ability to make everything
easier, faster, more reliable, false alarm free, and cheaper (cost
effective). Unfortunately, it's going to take another decade of 80's
technology to realize it, as the technology passes most bye. Most of the
"Old Dawgs" with their "it isn't broke, don't fix it" mentality just aren't
paying attention. The fact of the matter is, this 80's mentality has been
broke for over thirty years, and damn near since the inception of the
Digital Dialer. Most just seem to focus on the sales numbers, not the
impact. I ask dealers/competitors/customers this question all the time...

"What's your perception on the impact the security industry has provided
over the last 30 years"

It's a question for all to answer, and highly educational.

Jack

 

[[email protected]]

"ADT is a joke? How many 10 million dollar projects have you done? ADT
in many respects invented this industry and still has huge influence.
Open your eyes my friend. You may learn something. I just gave you
two real world scenarios that used wireless point to point and IP
backbone communications as well as networked video. If the United
State's top security integrators and defense contractors could not
come up with a better solution, I doubt you could either. Oakland was
handed to ADT because they were the only company who could come close
to the customer's homeland security grant amount. ADT won MassPort
because they offered the best technology and during testing, it
actually did everything it was supposed to. Btw, the total between
these two projects is over $15 million, which I assume is a little out
of your league. "
------------------------------------
I only deal with millionaires. ADT turned down some large jobs that my
US colleagues had to take over, which I have consulted on, those same
colleagues deal with US Military and Government. Now im talking CCTV
and thats all I care about. And nothing is out of my league. I
typically get called in when noone else can do it, extreme jobs. I dont
deal with distributors, I deal direct with manufacturers, US, Canada,
and world wide. So if you want to do IP cams thats fine, there is
obviously an industry for it and more power to you, but I deal with
CCTV, which can be very high quality and expandable once done
correctly, not too mention very stable and secure, and nowadays is
blended in with IP surveillance and very advanced.

For Jack please email me the info so I can spec it, not on this
newsgroup.
Thanks.

PS. who is rory?

 

[Jackcsg]

For Jack please email me the info so I can spec it, not on this
newsgroup.
Thanks.

PS. who is rory?

Sorry. There used to be a guy in here from the Bahamas named Rory. Thought
you were the same guy...
I'd be glad to discuss with you this camera installation.
send me an email: jackcsg at Juno dot com

Jack

 

[J. Sloud]

Easy John. Don't beat up on old Rory.
You'd have to narrow it down to 98% of the industry, including ADT
(non-Government sectors), and every National.
It's an industry wide dilemma. Few can see the potential, even fewer can
comprehend the potential. This industry has the ability to make everything
easier, faster, more reliable, false alarm free, and cheaper (cost
effective). Unfortunately, it's going to take another decade of 80's
technology to realize it, as the technology passes most bye. Most of the
"Old Dawgs" with their "it isn't broke, don't fix it" mentality just aren't
paying attention. The fact of the matter is, this 80's mentality has been
broke for over thirty years, and damn near since the inception of the
Digital Dialer. Most just seem to focus on the sales numbers, not the
impact. I ask dealers/competitors/customers this question all the time...

"What's your perception on the impact the security industry has provided
over the last 30 years"

It's a question for all to answer, and highly educational.

Jack

Jack,

It's an interesting question. Thirty years ago, the electronic
security industry was fire and burglar alarms. There was no real
CCTV, access control, inventory control, etc. The industry is so
diverse now that it's almost impossible for a company, let alone a
single person, to be an expert on every faction. I've chosen to
concentrate on that part of the business that I enjoy and that I feel
affects the most people in a positive way. We're involved in cutting
edge technology and the real world application of such. Most of my
direct customer contacts are with government agencies and large
private comapnies with deep pockets and a need for real security.

The "mainstream" part of this industry will benefit from cutting edge
technology being deployed in DHS/ DoD applications in the same way
that passenger cars benefit from auto racing. Intelligent video
analytics will soon be integrated into common DVR's. Virtual
tripwires may replace PE beams and other BA devices, and central
station video alarm verification will become much more common. IP
video will also make an impact. All the major manufacturers are
betting on it from AD to Bosch to Pelco. I'm not sure how it will
play out considering the limitations of traditional 10/100 Ethernet.
The flexibility of hanging viewing, recording, processing, and archive
storage anywhere on the network makes the architecture of these
systems revoluntionary in large scale applications.

When people who aren't involved in the leading edge, they get left
behind when things change. IP and wireless video are legitmate
technologies now for many medium to large commercial clients. Those
of us who are comfortable with these technologies will take jobs away
from the companies who aren't.

 

[Jackcsg]

Jack,

It's an interesting question. Thirty years ago, the electronic
security industry was fire and burglar alarms. There was no real
CCTV, access control, inventory control, etc. The industry is so
diverse now that it's almost impossible for a company, let alone a
single person, to be an expert on every faction. I've chosen to
concentrate on that part of the business that I enjoy and that I feel
affects the most people in a positive way. We're involved in cutting
edge technology and the real world application of such. Most of my
direct customer contacts are with government agencies and large
private comapnies with deep pockets and a need for real security.

I feel the same way. Most people don't get the opportunity to learn and
install what's out there.

The "mainstream" part of this industry will benefit from cutting edge
technology being deployed in DHS/ DoD applications in the same way
that passenger cars benefit from auto racing. Intelligent video
analytics will soon be integrated into common DVR's. Virtual
tripwires may replace PE beams and other BA devices, and central
station video alarm verification will become much more common. IP
video will also make an impact. All the major manufacturers are
betting on it from AD to Bosch to Pelco. I'm not sure how it will
play out considering the limitations of traditional 10/100 Ethernet.

Creatively, most of the "limitations" with Ethernet are near non existant.
It's this platform that most people are more familiar with as a 0-300'
extension.
Fact is, it's really a 0-25 Mile extension locally, and a world wide
extension overall. Most people see their systems limited by the amount of
zones, readers, cameras, etc. I see the limitations in IP addresses, 65,535
of them. That's the flexibility I see.

The flexibility of hanging viewing, recording, processing, and archive
storage anywhere on the network makes the architecture of these
systems revoluntionary in large scale applications.
Exactly.


When people who aren't involved in the leading edge, they get left
behind when things change. IP and wireless video are legitmate
technologies now for many medium to large commercial clients. Those
of us who are comfortable with these technologies will take jobs away
from the companies who aren't.

Exactly. It's an open road.