Maker Pro
Maker Pro

CCTV at night

C

Charlie Brown

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi

OK, I didn't do my homework very well. I have a digital video recorder with
one wireless miniature camera attached, I did this initial set up because I
wasn't sure how good it was going to be. It works fine but has a range of
about 20m instead of the 100m spec, but the signal is going through a couple
of walls. I now want to add cameras to it (3 more spare ports) but the
dealer tells me I need IR cameras if I want to record at night, they all
look a bit chunky and I like the discrete miniature type. Is there a way
where I can use the miniature cameras but use separate IR lighting? The
dealer says you can't do this, you need the IR cameras.

Can anyone help?


TIA

Charlie Brown
 
R

Robert L Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
Charlie Brown said:
Hi

OK, I didn't do my homework very well. I have a digital video recorder with one wireless miniature camera attached, I did this
initial set up because I wasn't sure how good it was going to be. It works fine but has a range of about 20m instead of the 100m
spec, but the signal is going through a couple of walls. I now want to add cameras to it (3 more spare ports) but the dealer
tells me I need IR cameras if I want to record at night, they all look a bit chunky and I like the discrete miniature type. Is
there a way where I can use the miniature cameras but use separate IR lighting? The dealer says you can't do this, you need the
IR cameras.

Can anyone help?

The dealer is wrong. You can use a separate IR illuminator. Unfortunately, the ones with enough power to illuminate a long
distance tend to be costly.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
941-866-1100
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>
 
S

shady

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi

OK, I didn't do my homework very well. I have a digital video recorder
with one wireless miniature camera attached, I did this initial set up
because I wasn't sure how good it was going to be. It works fine but has
a range of about 20m instead of the 100m spec, but the signal is going
through a couple of walls. I now want to add cameras to it (3 more spare
ports) but the dealer tells me I need IR cameras if I want to record at
night, they all look a bit chunky and I like the discrete miniature type.
Is there a way where I can use the miniature cameras but use separate IR
lighting? The dealer says you can't do this, you need the IR cameras.

Can anyone help?

Depending on how big or small a "chunky" camera is, here's a link for you...

http://www.homesecuritystore.com/ezStore123/DTProductZoom.asp?productID=1253

Without the sun shield, this camera is about 1.5" - 2" in diameter. If you
can find one that has a black case instead of the silver one here, it would
be much more discrete.

I found this one through a quick google search, although I believe I've used
this model with good results too. Just beware, the infrared illuminators
will generally only work well within a 30 foot range.
 
M

Matt Ion

Jan 1, 1970
0
Charlie said:
Hi

OK, I didn't do my homework very well. I have a digital video recorder with
one wireless miniature camera attached, I did this initial set up because I
wasn't sure how good it was going to be. It works fine but has a range of
about 20m instead of the 100m spec, but the signal is going through a couple
of walls. I now want to add cameras to it (3 more spare ports) but the
dealer tells me I need IR cameras if I want to record at night, they all
look a bit chunky and I like the discrete miniature type. Is there a way
where I can use the miniature cameras but use separate IR lighting? The
dealer says you can't do this, you need the IR cameras.

Can anyone help?

You don't need cameras with built-in IR illuminators, but you do need cameras
that can pick up the IR illumination. As Bass noted though, large high-power
illuminators can be expensive.

How about just using a motion-activated flood light? Your mini-cams will be a
lot happier with that, and you'll be a lot more likely to simply scare the bad
guys away with that.
 
C

Charlie Brown

Jan 1, 1970
0
Thanks very much. I know its easy to go overboard with security systems,
the fact is, I just want to protect a few valuables I have in the house, so
IR range isn't important. FYI, I live in an old house that is historically
listed, I am not allowed to fit heavy duty security equipment; and I want to
keep the CCTV small and wireless. I called the local police crime
prevention dept, they said CCTV is a waste of time and money, I'd be better
off fitting good locks. this sounds stupid to me - why fit expensive locks
to doors when you can push you elbow through a window? I just want a good
picture that will stand up in court. Its difficult to know what to do
living in an old house that you can't alter and too far away for an audio
alarm to be of any significant use.

I enjoy reading the cross talk, there's a lot of good information passed on
this group.

Charlie Brown
 
F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Matt said:
You don't need cameras with built-in IR illuminators, but you do need
cameras that can pick up the IR illumination. As Bass noted though,
large high-power illuminators can be expensive.

How about just using a motion-activated flood light? Your mini-cams
will be a lot happier with that, and you'll be a lot more likely to
simply scare the bad guys away with that.


I agree. The motion floods are the "better idea". Quartz-halogen
floods will allow you to employ color cameras (rather than black and
white) which will make identifying the "perps" easier for the Police.

If you want covert surveillance though, infra-red illuminators are the
only way to go. They're cost increases with the distance to the object.
Using a cheap camera with them isn't going to avail you much, however.
You'll "see" a blurry object wielding another blurry object trying to
get into what appears to be your blurry back door. :)
 
D

Doug

Jan 1, 1970
0
You can use separate IR illuminators but most IR illuminators are anything
but discreet, also most manufacturers seem to exaggerate the range of their
IR products especially the lower end products. Depending on the amount of
ambient light, there may be other options such as using a very low light
level camera.

Doug
 
F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Frank said:
If you want covert surveillance though, infra-red illuminators are the
only way to go. They're


Correction: "Their" ...
 
J

jacolo

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hey Charlie,

Well people that try things new learn the hard way like me, welcome to
the club.
I have a Web Site you should check out that has DVR systems and and
many hidden cameras that are compatable with all the systems on the
site. Wether you want a system that works from your computor or a DVr
system that can adapt to your computror to monitor everything at
anytime by connecting from any other computer.

Http://javeryenthbsp.com
let me know what you think after you check it out.
 
R

Robert L Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
As Matt suggested, a motion detector light may be a good solution. Speco makes a decent one that looks and works just like any
other motion-operated flood light. However, located inside the unit is a hidden CCTV camera. I've used these and they work well.
Thieves are used to seeing motion-lights and they won't even guess that they're on Candid Camera. Heck, they might even look
straight at the light when it comes on.

If the historical society doesn't get all bent out of shape about it you could probably fit one of these on the side of each house
behind a downspout or chimney and another under the eaves in the back. A 4-channel video card for your PC might be a decent
substitute for an expensive DVR if you've got a decent sized HD in the 'puter.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
941-866-1100
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>
 
J

Jim

Jan 1, 1970
0
Charlie said:
Hi

OK, I didn't do my homework very well. I have a digital video recorder with
one wireless miniature camera attached, I did this initial set up because I
wasn't sure how good it was going to be. It works fine but has a range of
about 20m instead of the 100m spec, but the signal is going through a couple
of walls. I now want to add cameras to it (3 more spare ports) but the
dealer tells me I need IR cameras if I want to record at night, they all
look a bit chunky and I like the discrete miniature type. Is there a way
where I can use the miniature cameras but use separate IR lighting? The
dealer says you can't do this, you need the IR cameras.

Can anyone help?


TIA

Charlie Brown

No one seems to have remembered to mention that not only are
"inexpensive" cameras not going to give you a good night picture .....
they also don't have "day/night" capability.
Even good color cameras don't do too good at night, even with infra red
illuminators. Mfg's produce cameras that will convert to black and
white cameras at night. Black and white cameras detect infra red
illimination much better than color cameras. In some cases giving you
much more than a two fold better picture than a color camera. Also,
even "day/night" cameras have a problem of staying in focus in both the
day and the night conditions. Better cameras provide compensation for
this.

I do cameras .... but truthfully .... I don't think they have much
value. Usually you just wind up with a video of a complete stranger
breaking into your house. No one will ever identify him. You can only
hope that if the police keep the video that someday they may catch
someone and remember that he's on your tape.

In my opinion ....your best bet is good lighting, good locks, make your
home look occupied when it's not, some lawn signs or window stickers
and a reasonable security system. Then if you want to add some video
..... go for it.
 
C

Charlie Brown

Jan 1, 1970
0
You are all a great group of guys willing to help out us non techy people.
I am willing to spend whatever it takes balanced against what is reasonable.
It is annoying that advice is not easy to get from the institutions; the
insurance companies are not in the slightest bit interested if you try your
best using modern technology, it seems the old adage of bolt your doors and
keep your head down still applies.

thanks

Charlie Brown
 
M

Matt Ion

Jan 1, 1970
0
Frank said:
I agree. The motion floods are the "better idea". Quartz-halogen
floods will allow you to employ color cameras (rather than black and
white) which will make identifying the "perps" easier for the Police.

Yup... and again, when a big bright light comes on in his face, the "perp" is a
lot more likely to simply leave, BEFORE doing any damage.
 
M

Matt Ion

Jan 1, 1970
0
Robert said:
As Matt suggested, a motion detector light may be a good solution. Speco makes a decent one that looks and works just like any
other motion-operated flood light. However, located inside the unit is a hidden CCTV camera. I've used these and they work well.
Thieves are used to seeing motion-lights and they won't even guess that they're on Candid Camera. Heck, they might even look
straight at the light when it comes on.

Ooooo I like that idea.
 
M

Matt Ion

Jan 1, 1970
0
dylan said:

Yeah, I think part of the police skepticism comes from the numerous "cheap"
systems out there, in use mostly by homeowners and cheap-ass businesses, that
record low-res, low-quality video from tiny camreas with cheap plastic
wide-angle lenses to time-lapse VHS tape using cheap tapes on cheap transports,
ending up with video that's pretty much useless. Put a couple of bucks into the
system, and you can get plenty of useful video out of it.

A "good" basic "pro" camera will run you a couple hundred bucks, with another
$50-$100 for a "good" lens. How much do you really expect to get from a
"complete four-cameras-with-TV-and-built-in-recorder" package that costs $200 at
Costco?
 
B

Bob La Londe

Jan 1, 1970
0
Matt Ion said:
Ooooo I like that idea.

Don't they have one that uses a receiver and transmits the video over the
electrical wires?
 
A

accidental plumber

Jan 1, 1970
0
Cameras have their uses but not high in the priority of things. Look
at the two example links. In the 1st one, the camera really did
nothing. The house owner got a call from the auto dialer. Obviously
the security system detected the intruders, not the cameras. He call
the police when he saw the thieves on camera. 12 cameras? You can
have a very reliable system for much cheaper, and can pay for a
monitoring service here in US. Relying on yourself to receive the
phone and call the police isn't that reliable.

The 2nd example is bad if you have any valuable to protect. The 1st
priority is to deter, detect and scare intruders away before they can
do anything. A fairly simple alarm system will do. As some say, you
need a decent camera and recorder to catch real thieves - not those
tiny CMOS camera, even worse for night vision camera. You have to
understand in that part of the world, they are stealing a 21 inch
curved screen TV, and perhaps a toaster. In that case, a tiny camera
may work, but it just serve to capture the face of a local thief well
known to the local police.

My opinion is that camera is really deterrent for business who have to
let everybody into their premises. And for perimeter security to deter
potential thieves and vandalism. It's difficult to avoid false alarm
outdoors.

To protect the windows, simple magnetic detector will do. And if you
are serious, vibration glass detectors or better, acoustic detectors
turned to the breaking sound of glass. Then PIR indoor is almost fail
safe, unless you have a pet roaming around in the same room. If an
alarm doesn't scare the thieves away, they can always smash your camera
and your recorder, unless you have some sort of internet camera with
remote file server to store the images.

Most security can be battery operated, but cameras are two high powered
for batteries. In California they can just turn off the main switch at
the front of my house.
 
A

accidental plumber

Jan 1, 1970
0
Back to night vision CCTV. Firstly, trying to catch them in the act is
dangerous thinking when you can deter them, keep them away, and scare
them away.

Size is everything. Those miniature cameras are really bad. In
daylight it's OK. At night all you can see are silhouettes. Night
vision means they take away the IR filter for ordinary use, and add IR
LED's. They are big and some actually emit faint red lights for all to
see. I have a 12 LED IR light that looked like a small poor ordinary
torch. I've seen 36 and 72 high power LED's. A 50 W light bulb with
an ordinary camera looked better than a cheap 12 LED IR light. So an
PIR controlled flood light is cheaper, lower power consumption, and
have better images.
 
Top