CAT-5 buried, exposed to sun

[Joerg]

Well, the frost out here took its toll. Need to re-plumb and relocate a
sprinkler valve. Poof ... phssssst. Anyhow, like most engineers I've got
lots of CAT-5 sitting on two spools doing nothing. I know, I know, it's
not what you are 'sposed to use outdoors but it'll save me a drive into
town.

What happens to CAT-5 outdoors when part of it is buried in the soil and
another part is exposed to the sun? Regular stuff, not plenum rated.
It's going to get 24V, not much current, probably 250mA or so and I can
parallel all the pairs. Any experience?

BTW, I have in the past used indoor telephone line outdoors and it
lasted forever. But that was much older technology, four non-twisted
wires in a gray jacket. Then I had non-stranded electricians wire as an
antenna, high up there, looked like new after 15+ years. Amazing.

 

[Martin Riddle]

Well, the frost out here took its toll. Need to re-plumb and relocate a
sprinkler valve. Poof ... phssssst. Anyhow, like most engineers I've got
lots of CAT-5 sitting on two spools doing nothing. I know, I know, it's
not what you are 'sposed to use outdoors but it'll save me a drive into
town.

What happens to CAT-5 outdoors when part of it is buried in the soil and
another part is exposed to the sun? Regular stuff, not plenum rated. It's
going to get 24V, not much current, probably 250mA or so and I can
parallel all the pairs. Any experience?

BTW, I have in the past used indoor telephone line outdoors and it lasted
forever. But that was much older technology, four non-twisted wires in a
gray jacket. Then I had non-stranded electricians wire as an antenna, high
up there, looked like new after 15+ years. Amazing.

Short term its ok, but long term you should use outdoor rated cable. Sun and
water will deteriorate the jacket.

Cheers

 

[Rich Grise]

Well, the frost out here took its toll. Need to re-plumb and relocate a
sprinkler valve. Poof ... phssssst. Anyhow, like most engineers I've got
lots of CAT-5 sitting on two spools doing nothing. I know, I know, it's
not what you are 'sposed to use outdoors but it'll save me a drive into
town.

What happens to CAT-5 outdoors when part of it is buried in the soil and
another part is exposed to the sun? Regular stuff, not plenum rated.
It's going to get 24V, not much current, probably 250mA or so and I can
parallel all the pairs. Any experience?

BTW, I have in the past used indoor telephone line outdoors and it
lasted forever. But that was much older technology, four non-twisted
wires in a gray jacket. Then I had non-stranded electricians wire as an
antenna, high up there, looked like new after 15+ years. Amazing.

The grey plastic jacket will dry out and crack, and the part underground
might rot. It could last up to maybe five years, depending on how harsh
the weather and stuff is, but if you're going to be burying it anyway, how
hard would it be to bury a piece of PVC pipe and thread the cable through
it? For the part exposed to the sun, one, put it in the shade ( ;-) ), and
see if you can get some white vinyl tape and cover it up. That way, the
tape will take the weather and the cable "should" last. ;-)

Or, for that matter, extend the PVC to cover the otherwise exposed part.

Or, if that's too much of a PITA, then just buy the proper wire -
BUT! If it's not for permanent, then just lay it there. ;-)

Have Fun!
Rich

 

[Joerg]

The grey plastic jacket will dry out and crack, and the part underground
might rot. It could last up to maybe five years, depending on how harsh
the weather and stuff is, but if you're going to be burying it anyway, how
hard would it be to bury a piece of PVC pipe and thread the cable through
it? For the part exposed to the sun, one, put it in the shade ( ;-) ), and
see if you can get some white vinyl tape and cover it up. That way, the
tape will take the weather and the cable "should" last. ;-)

Yeah, I was thinking about wrapping electrical tape around the whole
run. It's just 30ft or so. Can't lay it in PVC because this is very
rocky and uneven terrain.

Or, for that matter, extend the PVC to cover the otherwise exposed part.

Or, if that's too much of a PITA, then just buy the proper wire -
BUT! If it's not for permanent, then just lay it there. ;-)

Interestingly, when taking off the old valve there was electrical tape
around a cable splice. It looked like the cheap stuff and I know it's
been there 25+ years. Had a real hard time getting it off. Not cracked
at all and it stuck like glue.

 

[Homer J Simpson]

What happens to CAT-5 outdoors when part of it is buried in the soil and
another part is exposed to the sun? Regular stuff, not plenum rated. It's
going to get 24V, not much current, probably 250mA or so and I can
parallel all the pairs. Any experience?

Probably be fine. You could run it inside hose for extra protection.

 

[Joerg]

Short term its ok, but long term you should use outdoor rated cable. Sun and
water will deteriorate the jacket.

Maybe I'll just wrap the whole run with electrical tape. Beats a
round-trip into town. And I want to get it over with, I hate those
plumbing projects

 

[Ross Herbert]

Probably be fine. You could run it inside hose for extra protection.

The old garden hose conduit method sure works for rocky terrain. It is
certainly waterproof

 

[MassiveProng]

Well, the frost out here took its toll. Need to re-plumb and relocate a
sprinkler valve. Poof ... phssssst. Anyhow, like most engineers I've got
lots of CAT-5 sitting on two spools doing nothing. I know, I know, it's
not what you are 'sposed to use outdoors but it'll save me a drive into
town.

What happens to CAT-5 outdoors when part of it is buried in the soil and
another part is exposed to the sun? Regular stuff, not plenum rated.
It's going to get 24V, not much current, probably 250mA or so and I can
parallel all the pairs. Any experience?

No, but it will probably be fine. Electrically at least. You will
have to change it out in a few years (if your smart) as the jacket
will degrade, and you could then get electrical issues.

BTW, I have in the past used indoor telephone line outdoors and it
lasted forever.

POTS drop line lasts forever too. It has a creosote impregnated
jacket. Nothing gets in or out.

But that was much older technology, four non-twisted
wires in a gray jacket. Then I had non-stranded electricians wire as an
antenna, high up there, looked like new after 15+ years. Amazing.

Yes, the run could last over a decade, but I'd still change it out
for plenum rated or the like in a few years. Hell, get larger gauge
teflon twisted pair power wiring! We used to buy it by the spool at
16Ga, Black and White twisted pair teflon, with a shield and a teflon
oversheath.

Mil spec stuff. Excellent noise rejection, and great stuff to wire
up anything AC fed with. There are even little terminations that heat
shrink over the sheath, attach a shield lead to the shield, and seal
off the shield and wires inside from the world outside. A heat gun
shrinks it up, and solders on the shield lead in one operation.

The finished cable assembly has two main AC lines and a small shield
wire to tie to the chassis. Very quiet realm for your sensitive
circuitry to operate in without disturbance. Twists stay tight, and
there is another shield on top of that.

THAT would last 50 years easily. Oh yeah... The wire itself is
premium grade SPC (Silver Plated Copper).

A little under a buck a foot. Short quantities would likely nearly
double that.

Still not bad for what you get.

I think Reynolds made it.

 

[The Real Andy]

Well, the frost out here took its toll. Need to re-plumb and relocate a
sprinkler valve. Poof ... phssssst. Anyhow, like most engineers I've got
lots of CAT-5 sitting on two spools doing nothing. I know, I know, it's
not what you are 'sposed to use outdoors but it'll save me a drive into
town.

What happens to CAT-5 outdoors when part of it is buried in the soil and
another part is exposed to the sun? Regular stuff, not plenum rated.
It's going to get 24V, not much current, probably 250mA or so and I can
parallel all the pairs. Any experience?

BTW, I have in the past used indoor telephone line outdoors and it
lasted forever. But that was much older technology, four non-twisted
wires in a gray jacket. Then I had non-stranded electricians wire as an
antenna, high up there, looked like new after 15+ years. Amazing.

I use cat5 for my sprinkler system (24vac). One section is buried,
proabably 10meters. Its been there for around 5 years now, never had a
problem with it. It is that cheap that if/when it rots, i will just
yank it up and replace it.

There is also a meter or so exposed to sun light, and it is still
going strong.

I have used no precautions to keep the ends out of water, in fact I
would be surprised if the outer insulation is not full of water.

I use one pair per valve, and the total run would be 30meters or so.

 

[Homer J Simpson]

Interestingly, when taking off the old valve there was electrical tape
around a cable splice. It looked like the cheap stuff and I know it's been
there 25+ years. Had a real hard time getting it off. Not cracked at all
and it stuck like glue.

There's a kind of tape called self amalgamating. It bonds together over
time.

 

[Paul Hovnanian P.E.]

[snip]

BTW, I have in the past used indoor telephone line outdoors and it
lasted forever. But that was much older technology, four non-twisted
wires in a gray jacket. Then I had non-stranded electricians wire as an
antenna, high up there, looked like new after 15+ years. Amazing.

The stuff that phone guys use for indoor wiring is almost always rated
for outdoors. Most of the time, they run it on the outside of buildings
so its not worth carrying indoor only cable and then having to splice
it, etc.

 

[Dr. Anton T. Squeegee]

[email protected] (known to some as Joerg)
scribed...

What happens to CAT-5 outdoors when part of it is buried in the soil and
another part is exposed to the sun? Regular stuff, not plenum rated.

<snippety-two>

Unless it is explicitly designed and rated for outdoor (direct
burial) and sunlight exposure, you can expect a fairly short lifetime as
the PVC jacket gets progressively turned into brittle dust where the sun
gets to it, and where water seeps in over a few month's time
underground.

If you must use standard CAT-5 cable outdoors, you should run it
through conduit that is explicitly rated for direct burial.

Ideally, you need to use cable that is itself rated for direct
burial and sunlight. PVC won't cut it -- Outdoor and direct-burial
telephone cables use a high-density polyethylene outer jacket.

You should be able to find the appropriate stuff at
telecommunications or electrical suppliers.

I'd say you were extremely lucky with that older cable.


Happy hunting.

 

[Dr. Anton T. Squeegee]

[email protected] (known to some as Joerg)
scribed...

Maybe I'll just wrap the whole run with electrical tape. Beats a
round-trip into town. And I want to get it over with, I hate those
plumbing projects

Won't help. Electrical tape itself will break down, both
underground and when exposed to sunlight.

If you're serious about doing this right, and saving yourself a
replacement job down the road, use the correct materials to start with.

 

[mpm]

"There is nothing more permanent than something temporary."

But in this case, I agree.
Trenching through rock is no fun.

-mpm

 

[Jim Thompson]

Well, the frost out here took its toll. Need to re-plumb and relocate a
sprinkler valve. Poof ... phssssst. Anyhow, like most engineers I've got
lots of CAT-5 sitting on two spools doing nothing. I know, I know, it's
not what you are 'sposed to use outdoors but it'll save me a drive into
town.

What happens to CAT-5 outdoors when part of it is buried in the soil and
another part is exposed to the sun? Regular stuff, not plenum rated.
It's going to get 24V, not much current, probably 250mA or so and I can
parallel all the pairs. Any experience?

BTW, I have in the past used indoor telephone line outdoors and it
lasted forever. But that was much older technology, four non-twisted
wires in a gray jacket. Then I had non-stranded electricians wire as an
antenna, high up there, looked like new after 15+ years. Amazing.

I'd put the CAT-5 inside some of that (1/2" I think) drip tube. It's
flavor is undesirable to the desert rodents we have around here. I
couldn't keep my pool controls alive until I did that.

...Jim Thompson

 

[Joerg]

No, but it will probably be fine. Electrically at least. You will
have to change it out in a few years (if your smart) as the jacket
will degrade, and you could then get electrical issues.




POTS drop line lasts forever too. It has a creosote impregnated
jacket. Nothing gets in or out.

This was regular indoor line I used. It amazed me.

Yes, the run could last over a decade, but I'd still change it out
for plenum rated or the like in a few years. Hell, get larger gauge
teflon twisted pair power wiring! We used to buy it by the spool at
16Ga, Black and White twisted pair teflon, with a shield and a teflon
oversheath.

Mil spec stuff. Excellent noise rejection, and great stuff to wire
up anything AC fed with. There are even little terminations that heat
shrink over the sheath, attach a shield lead to the shield, and seal
off the shield and wires inside from the world outside. A heat gun
shrinks it up, and solders on the shield lead in one operation.

The finished cable assembly has two main AC lines and a small shield
wire to tie to the chassis. Very quiet realm for your sensitive
circuitry to operate in without disturbance. Twists stay tight, and
there is another shield on top of that.

THAT would last 50 years easily. Oh yeah... The wire itself is
premium grade SPC (Silver Plated Copper).

Then the PVC water lines would become the limiting factor in MTBF.

A little under a buck a foot. Short quantities would likely nearly
double that.

Still not bad for what you get.

I think Reynolds made it.

The cigarette manufacturer ? SCNR...

 

[Joerg]

I use cat5 for my sprinkler system (24vac). One section is buried,
proabably 10meters. Its been there for around 5 years now, never had a
problem with it. It is that cheap that if/when it rots, i will just
yank it up and replace it.

There is also a meter or so exposed to sun light, and it is still
going strong.

I have used no precautions to keep the ends out of water, in fact I
would be surprised if the outer insulation is not full of water.

I use one pair per valve, and the total run would be 30meters or so.

Good! That's what I am planning to do.

 

[Joerg]

I'd put the CAT-5 inside some of that (1/2" I think) drip tube. It's
flavor is undesirable to the desert rodents we have around here. I
couldn't keep my pool controls alive until I did that.

Won't fit around the rocks here, way too stiff. We only have foxes. The
kits dig and play when they are young, and occasionally knock over the
firewood stack. But they never chew anything up. They are actually quite
behaved compared to most puppy dogs. They also don't relieve themselves
in the middle of a flower bed but always go into a corner.

 

[Jim Thompson]

Won't fit around the rocks here, way too stiff. We only have foxes. The
kits dig and play when they are young, and occasionally knock over the
firewood stack. But they never chew anything up. They are actually quite
behaved compared to most puppy dogs. They also don't relieve themselves
in the middle of a flower bed but always go into a corner.

I have several inches of decorative crushed granite on the yard, so I
just scrape back a few inches away from the edge of the house, lay
down the tubing, then sweep the granite over it.

...Jim Thompson

 

[MassiveProng]

This was regular indoor line I used. It amazed me.

That was the old stuff. The newer stuff is the polyethylene
jacketed stuff the other guy described.