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Casement Windows

F

FondOfBooks

Jan 1, 1970
0
I have mostly double-hung windows. They are currently able to remain
open a few inches and still have the system armed. Now we are adding a
couple of casement windows. Is there any way to wire them and allow
them to remain open a few inches on a nice day? Thanks!
 
B

Bob Worthy

Jan 1, 1970
0
FondOfBooks said:
I have mostly double-hung windows. They are currently able to remain
open a few inches and still have the system armed. Now we are adding a
couple of casement windows. Is there any way to wire them and allow
them to remain open a few inches on a nice day? Thanks!

Not really. Your best bet is to have your screens wired as security screens.
Either being cut or removed activates the alarm and since casement windows
have interior screens, they will last along time, since they are not in the
weather. Actually a better choice for security than venting windows and you
will gain protection from anyone coming through the glass. You don't have to
do all of them, but a couple for cross ventilation is nice.
 
J

Jim

Jan 1, 1970
0
FondOfBooks said:
I have mostly double-hung windows. They are currently able to remain
open a few inches and still have the system armed. Now we are adding a
couple of casement windows. Is there any way to wire them and allow
them to remain open a few inches on a nice day? Thanks!


Here's something you may want to try. I don't do it all the time, only
if the client REAAALLLLLLY wants to ventilate a casement or two on an
install.

First, the switch and magnet have to be installed on the hinge side of
the window. The magnet, in relation to the switch has to be mounted so
that the window can only be opened about two to three inches (depending
upon the make of the window) before the switch breaks contact. If you
let it open any more than that, someone could reach in and mess with
the switch. Then, at that point of the window being open, install a
hook and eye somewhere on the frame and moving part of the window so
that the window can only open so far. You need to do this because
sometimes, when the wind blows a casement window, it can gradually open
over a period of time. It doesn't look to pretty if the window is in a
obvious place and it's not too convenient if you're opening and closing
the window every day ( because you have to take the screen off each
time you want to use the hook and eye). In a couple of cases, I
installed a short chain between the frame and the window, so they
wouldn't have to remove the screen each time. The chain unhoods, in
case they ever had to open the window all the way. But all in all, the
easiest, but more expensive way to do it, is with security screens. I
just don't like screens because they can be slit and someone can reach
in and mess with the wires, if they know what they're doing. And if you
have screens in a room, people tend to leave the windows WIDE open and
so you can't have a motion detector in that room which could trip due
to wind blowing something around, while the windows are open.

If you're doing this yourself, this make work for you.

I usually don't post this kind of stuff in this group, because there's
someone by the name of Robert Bass here, who likes to steal this kind
of information and claim that he thought of it. He uses information
like this to make money on his web site. You know the kind, a thieving
lying scumbag who gets by using other people.
 
A

alarman

Jan 1, 1970
0
I just don't like screens because they can be slit and someone can reach
in and mess with the wires, if they know what they're doing.

I have had screens made with an integral eol resistor for just this reason.
js
 
J

Jim

Jan 1, 1970
0
alarman said:
I have had screens made with an integral eol resistor for just this reason.
js

That would be good if there was only one casement window on each zone
or someone just happened to pick the one window, in the zone, that had
the resistor in it. I think that most people (including me) don't put
one (casement) window on a zone. I usually put a room ( if there's only
a few windows in the room) on a zone. And the "messing with the wires"
I'm talking about are not the wires imbeded in the screen, I'm talking
about the wires going to the plug or whatever, that connects to the
screen. I once had a system bypassed by someone doing this to the
screened window in the in the master bath room. Thankfully I had a
motion detector in the adjoining master bedroom. It was done by a
neighbors kid who thought he knew the system.

I guess if a client started out during the estimate stage, insisting
that they be able to ventilate their casement windows, each window
could be wired seperately, but that would add even more to the price
and make it that much more of a detriment to the sale. If they were
willing to pay the price, then .... why not. But, here in the
northeast, it's always too much to pay just to leave the windows open
for a few weeks out of the year.

And, obviously, if it's a wireless system, eol doesn't come into it at
all.
 
C

Crash Gordon

Jan 1, 1970
0
If the resistor goes missing doesn't matter if there's one screen or 10 on
the loop.


|
| alarman wrote:
| > | >
| > > I just don't like screens because they can be slit and someone can
reach
| > > in and mess with the wires, if they know what they're doing.
| >
| > I have had screens made with an integral eol resistor for just this
reason.
| > js
|
| That would be good if there was only one casement window on each zone
| or someone just happened to pick the one window, in the zone, that had
| the resistor in it. I think that most people (including me) don't put
| one (casement) window on a zone. I usually put a room ( if there's only
| a few windows in the room) on a zone. And the "messing with the wires"
| I'm talking about are not the wires imbeded in the screen, I'm talking
| about the wires going to the plug or whatever, that connects to the
| screen. I once had a system bypassed by someone doing this to the
| screened window in the in the master bath room. Thankfully I had a
| motion detector in the adjoining master bedroom. It was done by a
| neighbors kid who thought he knew the system.
|
| I guess if a client started out during the estimate stage, insisting
| that they be able to ventilate their casement windows, each window
| could be wired seperately, but that would add even more to the price
| and make it that much more of a detriment to the sale. If they were
| willing to pay the price, then .... why not. But, here in the
| northeast, it's always too much to pay just to leave the windows open
| for a few weeks out of the year.
|
| And, obviously, if it's a wireless system, eol doesn't come into it at
| all.
|
 
C

Crash Gordon

Jan 1, 1970
0
Way too much work trying vent a casement...bad enough it's a casement to
begin with!


|
| FondOfBooks wrote:
| > I have mostly double-hung windows. They are currently able to remain
| > open a few inches and still have the system armed. Now we are adding a
| > couple of casement windows. Is there any way to wire them and allow
| > them to remain open a few inches on a nice day? Thanks!
|
|
| Here's something you may want to try. I don't do it all the time, only
| if the client REAAALLLLLLY wants to ventilate a casement or two on an
| install.
|
| First, the switch and magnet have to be installed on the hinge side of
| the window. The magnet, in relation to the switch has to be mounted so
| that the window can only be opened about two to three inches (depending
| upon the make of the window) before the switch breaks contact. If you
| let it open any more than that, someone could reach in and mess with
| the switch. Then, at that point of the window being open, install a
| hook and eye somewhere on the frame and moving part of the window so
| that the window can only open so far. You need to do this because
| sometimes, when the wind blows a casement window, it can gradually open
| over a period of time. It doesn't look to pretty if the window is in a
| obvious place and it's not too convenient if you're opening and closing
| the window every day ( because you have to take the screen off each
| time you want to use the hook and eye). In a couple of cases, I
| installed a short chain between the frame and the window, so they
| wouldn't have to remove the screen each time. The chain unhoods, in
| case they ever had to open the window all the way. But all in all, the
| easiest, but more expensive way to do it, is with security screens. I
| just don't like screens because they can be slit and someone can reach
| in and mess with the wires, if they know what they're doing. And if you
| have screens in a room, people tend to leave the windows WIDE open and
| so you can't have a motion detector in that room which could trip due
| to wind blowing something around, while the windows are open.
|
| If you're doing this yourself, this make work for you.
|
| I usually don't post this kind of stuff in this group, because there's
| someone by the name of Robert Bass here, who likes to steal this kind
| of information and claim that he thought of it. He uses information
| like this to make money on his web site. You know the kind, a thieving
| lying scumbag who gets by using other people.
|
 
A

alarman

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jim said:
That would be good if there was only one casement window on each zone
or someone just happened to pick the one window, in the zone, that had
the resistor in it. I think that most people (including me) don't put
one (casement) window on a zone. I usually put a room ( if there's only
a few windows in the room) on a zone. And the "messing with the wires"
I'm talking about are not the wires imbeded in the screen, I'm talking
about the wires going to the plug or whatever, that connects to the
screen. I once had a system bypassed by someone doing this to the
screened window in the in the master bath room. Thankfully I had a
motion detector in the adjoining master bedroom. It was done by a
neighbors kid who thought he knew the system.

I guess if a client started out during the estimate stage, insisting
that they be able to ventilate their casement windows, each window
could be wired seperately, but that would add even more to the price
and make it that much more of a detriment to the sale. If they were
willing to pay the price, then .... why not. But, here in the
northeast, it's always too much to pay just to leave the windows open
for a few weeks out of the year.

I put multiple windows in the same room on the same zone, but not when I use
alarm screens anymore. If the customer is willing to pay for the screens, a
zone expander or two is a drop in the bucket. Now screens are alone on a
zone, and I don't have to sweat the tamper threat. We leave windows open a
lot down here. You're right about the wireless though, the eol only works
for h/w unless you're using a xmtr with eol capability. The ones I use
don't.
js
 
A

alarman

Jan 1, 1970
0
Crash Gordon said:
If the resistor goes missing doesn't matter if there's one screen or 10 on
the loop.

But if you short the circuit at the screen lead, and the resistor is in
another location, the zone thinks the screen is still there and the resistor
is still present.
js
 
N

Nomen Nescio

Jan 1, 1970
0
alarman said:
If the customer is willing to pay for the screens, a
zone expander or two is a drop in the bucket. Now screens are alone on a
zone, and I don't have to sweat the tamper threat.

The downside to building the EOLR into the screen is that it complicates
troubleshooting. When you meter the resistance in an EOL screen, you might
have a reading of 1050 ohms. Is it good or bad? Who knows, due to the
tolerance of the resistor. On the other hand, if you meter a small non-EOL
screen and you read 50 ohms, you know the screen is bad.

Granted, if you have only one screen per zone, you've narrowed down the
problem somewhat. :)

There's also the risk that when you update the system in ten years, the
EOLs will be the wrong value for new panel you wanted to use.

- badenov
 
C

Crash Gordon

Jan 1, 1970
0
how would you get at the screen lead...don't you slot the frames?...we don't
leave the leads out, although the cleaning lady might



| | > If the resistor goes missing doesn't matter if there's one screen or 10
on
| > the loop.
|
| But if you short the circuit at the screen lead, and the resistor is in
| another location, the zone thinks the screen is still there and the
resistor
| is still present.
| js
|
|
 
A

alarman

Jan 1, 1970
0
Crash Gordon said:
how would you get at the screen lead...don't you slot the frames?...we
don't
leave the leads out, although the cleaning lady might

It depends on the application. Mostly I slot the frame, but the leads are
almost always exposed the first time someone removes the screen for
cleaning.
js
 
J

Jim

Jan 1, 1970
0
Crash said:
If the resistor goes missing doesn't matter if there's one screen or 10 on
the loop.


Nope.

If there are multiple windows on a loop and there's an EOL at the last
window. Each window has a two wire drop to the basement/attic. Short
out those two wires and the EOL is still in the loop. Screens don't
typically have four wires to carry both sides of the loop.

I think the case was posted here awhile ago, where in just such an
installation, an installer had bypassed bedroom windows while the
screens were being repaired and a woman was murdered because the
intruder just happend to pick the bypassed windows. EOL was at the last
window. Installer just bypassed the two wires going to the removed
screen.
 
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