Career Advancement

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As mentioned earlier, I am an engineering technologist, not a degreed
What is the difference above?

 

[[email protected]]

Take four years earning potential and a hundred thousand dollars.

plus all interest, against one of the trades

When you say "one of the trades".... what trades do you mean?

Like an electrician or something?

 

[Romy]

--Snip--

I fear that you may not like "electronics" any better. Greener
grass, and all that.

Funny thing is, right now I am looking towards electronics, at least at the
microcontrollers and such. But the thing is, most EE degree programs seem to
emphasize alot towards the RF/electronics/computers route, way more than I'd
want to learn about them. Although I'm liking microntrollers right now, I
can say with confidence I wouldn't want to do it as my career, only as a
hobby. I like BIG things, like power systems and control systems in
manufacturing plants.

You may be independently wealthy, but you're a rare breed. Most of
us look at an education as an investment. I'm starting to believe
it's not a good one.

LOL, being 24 and living at home, you might want to retract that first
statement! The reason why I mentioned money not being a huge factor in my
decision was because I have 40 years to make it up. And assuming a degreed
engineer makes $20k a year more than one without a degree, it would mean a
break even point at 12.5 yrs, the rest is all profit. However, the reason
I'm looking at getting a degree is more because I don't want to hit a glass
ceiling, and of course money makes everybody happy, (all else being equal).
Main thing is, if I do decide to pursue a degree (instead of just taking
some part time computer & electronics courses), I should be doing it now,
not 10 years from now. On the other hand, I don't see taking specific
courses (ie Foundation Fieldbus) as being a waste of time either, what's
your take?

Nonsense! There are only so many "history professorships"
available. Higher education is an investment. If you're rich
enough that you can throw a quarter-of-a-megabuck away, perhaps you
should do what you're doing for a couple of more years and then
retire to a yacht in the South-Pacific.

I would if I could, but I can't so I won't. )

I've changed jobs about ever five years, but have had the same
employer for thirty. Would I make the same decisions in today's
climate, good grief no!

Out of curiosty, (and possible advice). If you don't mind me asking, what do
you do? And what would you do differently today?


Romy

P.S. How much merit does a bachelor's of science, (in general science) have
in the electrical engineering world? I'm thinking not much, but I could be
wrong...

 

[Romy]

What is the difference above?

Here in Canada, you can do one of two options;

Go to a college for three years and graduate with a diploma. This is what I
did. Doing so you become a Technologist. I guess that is the equivalent to
the US EET program. My program had emphasis on Power Systems and Control
systems. We did not do much programming (other than PLC's and HMI). It was
good, it was fun, I like what I can do, (which is not the same as what other
people think I "cannot" do).

Or, you can go to University for 4 years, get a degree, and go on to become
an engineer. Not a whole lot of practical is done here, but the depth of
studies is further than the college program. The degree really helps open
doors, what else it does, I can't really say because I don't have one.


Romy

 

[K Williams]

When you say "one of the trades".... what trades do you mean?

Like an electrician or something?

Yes, or plumber...

 

[K Williams]

--Snip--

Funny thing is, right now I am looking towards electronics, at
least at the microcontrollers and such. But the thing is, most EE
degree programs seem to emphasize alot towards the
RF/electronics/computers route, way more than I'd want to learn
about them. Although I'm liking microntrollers right now, I can
say with confidence I wouldn't want to do it as my career, only as
a hobby. I like BIG things, like power systems and control systems
in manufacturing plants.

Funny thing is... I started out hating that big stuff (two of my
brothers are power engineers and my father was an EE Prof,
specializing in power/transformers/motors - *big* stuff). When
microprocessors came around I jumped on them big-time. I'm rather
more interested in power these days, but only as a hobby. ;-)

LOL, being 24 and living at home, you might want to retract that
first statement! The reason why I mentioned money not being a huge
factor in my decision was because I have 40 years to make it up.
And assuming a degreed engineer makes $20k a year more than one
without a degree, it would mean a break even point at 12.5 yrs,
the rest is all profit.

I'm glad you can borrow money at 0% interest. Can I have some to
invest? ;-) Remember, there is risk in any investment and
education is no different.

However, the reason I'm looking at getting
a degree is more because I don't want to hit a glass ceiling, and
of course money makes everybody happy, (all else being equal).

Sure, I'd rather be rich and miserable than poor and
miserable. ..all else being equal. ;-)

Main thing is, if I do decide to pursue a degree (instead of just
taking some part time computer & electronics courses), I should be
doing it now, not 10 years from now. On the other hand, I don't
see taking specific courses (ie Foundation Fieldbus) as being a
waste of time either, what's your take?

Certainly it's better doing anything now than waiting to pay more
later and have less time to recapture your investment.

No, I don't see education as a waste at all. It just may not be a
good investment. If one is going into engineering to make money,
one should think again. I wouldn't go into engineering to avoid a
"glass ceiling" either. Instead of a "glass ceiling" it'll be a
Faraday cage. Practicing engineers don't make it to the top of many
companies these days. What engineer wants that anyway!

I would if I could, but I can't so I won't. )

Well, a 4-year education comes close.

Out of curiosty, (and possible advice). If you don't mind me
asking, what do you do? And what would you do differently today?

These days I work in microprocessor development (logic verification,
specifically). I've done circuit design, analog design, system
development, crypto hardware development, microprocessor hardware
verification and more. Like I said, I tend to change jobs about
every five years. Usually I change because the need changes,
though sometimes I decide I've had enough and want to learn/do
something new. I relocated (company sponsored move eleven years
ago because there was interesting work here (project didn't
materialize though) and staying was getting risky (huge layoffs).

What would I do differently? Many moons ago I was offered several
positions in various companies. I stayed because I wanted a
career, not a series of jobs. Stability was worth real money to
the family and I always managed to find interesting work inside the
company. However, in today's atmosphere I'd not even try to make
thirty years for one employer. I even suggest to the "kids",
particularly the good ones, that they do five years and split, with
the appropriate punch on their resume. Layoffs are part of the
game anymore, so it's good to be in as much control as possible.
The company doesn't care, so...

P.S. How much merit does a bachelor's of science, (in general
science) have in the electrical engineering world? I'm thinking
not much, but I could be wrong...

A BS in the hard sciences is pretty meaningless, from what I gather.
OTOH, a BSEE is *the* degree for Electrical Engineering. A MS is a
waste of time and money, IMO, unless you really want a PhD (and
then a combined program is a better deal). A PhD may make you
"over-qualified" to work in down markets though. A BSEE gets your
foot in the door, which is the hard part of finding employment.
Many employers will pay for one to continue on for a MS, including
time off for classes. I started on my MS, was unimpressed with the
quality of instruction available a locally (an extension program)
and stopped after four courses of sheer boredom.

 

[K Williams]

Here in Canada, you can do one of two options;

Go to a college for three years and graduate with a diploma. This
is what I did. Doing so you become a Technologist. I guess that is
the equivalent to the US EET program. My program had emphasis on
Power Systems and Control systems. We did not do much programming
(other than PLC's and HMI). It was good, it was fun, I like what I
can do, (which is not the same as what other people think I
"cannot" do).

"Down" here (I live North of many/most Canuks A there are three
degrees. The lowest is an associates, which is a two year degree
normally offered by a community college. The next level is a BET
(Bachelors of Engineering Technology), which is a four year degree
that falls short of the BSEE, in the eyes of many employers (I
don't happen to agree, much). It seems your degree falls inbetween
our Associates degree and BET.

Or, you can go to University for 4 years, get a degree, and go on
to become an engineer. Not a whole lot of practical is done here,
but the depth of studies is further than the college program.

One can do some practical stuff in a BSEE program too. I did lots
of extra-classroom projects (and received credit too. Employers
really like the employment-related "extra" stuff.

The
degree really helps open doors, what else it does, I can't really
say because I don't have one.

A BSEE (from a top school brings big points) is the ticket into
electrical engineering, particularly on the design side. OTOH,
people have different interests.

 

[Bargepole]

"Romy Singh" <[email protected]> wrote in message

Waterloo would be an excellent choice if you want to start all over
again. It would be difficult however, to establish equivalency of
their courses with those in your diploma studies. This is a dilemma
most technology grads face when they want to complete an engineering
degree. Usually, it means starting over from scratch or at best, you
may get a year's worth of credits toward the degree.

With Lakehead, you'll receive full credit for your diploma, mainly due
to their program structure. Their program is unique that it is
specifically structured to be combined with a technology diploma. For
Ontario technology graduates, the program is as you had indicated:

(3-yr diploma) + (2.5-yr post-diploma program) = B.Eng. Degree

This unorthodox approach allows you to make full use your diploma
credits and complete a CEAB accredited engineering degree. You'll be a
licensed PEng in less time than if you were to start over. The PEng
might come in handy someday.
From a return on investment perspective, Lakehead's program makes a
lot of economic sense. You can use the time and money you save to
pursue a MS later if so inclined.

A little stale, perhaps, but 24 years ago, I completed the 3 year Electrical
Technology (Controls option) course at Ryerson and then enrolled in U of
T's Engineering faculty. I graduated with a B.A.Sc. Engineering after 3 more
years. U of T granted 1 year credit for the 3 years spent at Ryerson.

Not only is the P.Eng. designation handy, but so is a B.A.Sc. The federal
government offers an incentive program to companies engaged in R&D. The
definition of R&D is quite loose and many activities qualify if properly
packaged and include the services of a university graduate. Significant
portions of a project's costs, such as salaries, expenses and equipment, can
be recouped through tax deductions granted to the employer.

 

[Romy]

Thanks everybody who responded to my post. Especially the one's who
responded numerous times. You all gave me good advice and it was greatly
appreciated. For now I think I'm going to take some robotics courses and
move on to microcontrollers as well. I'm co-ordinating this really cool
project (my very first one!) and that will keep me busy for the next 18-20
weeks, so I really don't want to quit work now to go back to school F/T,
(among other reasons).

Once again, thanks to everybody for the help!


Romy