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Romy Singh

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hello All,

Having a bit of a dilemma with my career/education, I just wanted some input
from people who have been in the industry longer than me, (which is probably
everybody here). I've been reading this newsgroup for many years, and have
already read many many posts in the archives, so please be patient if I just
don't "get it".

I'm 24, graduated as a EE technologist 2 years ago (I'm in Canada). I worked
as an electrician before I started college, and continued throughout school,
up until this February (about 5 yrs in total). At that time I got a job as
an Applications Specialist for a German valve manufacturer, I also do the IT
administration duties there. The company is great, nice people, laid back,
decent benefits, but not the greatest pay. I've only been there for 4 months
so I don't expect to be "the man" there just as yet.

My longer term goal is to work in the automation/robotics industry, or
something along the lines of control systems manager/plant operations
manager. I know people don't go into engineering for the money, I didn't,
but it does play a factor in day to day life, so a comfortable life is
important.

As mentioned earlier, I am an engineering technologist, not a degreed
engineer. Recently I have thought about going back to school to get an
engineering degree in either electrical or mechatronics, (which is what I
really have an interest in. My question is whether taking (min.) four years
out of my life at this point will really be worth it in the end. What is
more important, a 29 yr old with a degree but no experience, or a 29 yr old
technologist with 4-5 years of experience?

This post is already getting a bit on the long side, so I'll continue to
provide more info as the posts go on.
Any input is appreciated, opinions, advice, etc. good or bad.


Thanks,
Romy
 
B

Bob Peterson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Romy Singh said:
Hello All,

Having a bit of a dilemma with my career/education, I just wanted some input
from people who have been in the industry longer than me, (which is probably
everybody here). I've been reading this newsgroup for many years, and have
already read many many posts in the archives, so please be patient if I just
don't "get it".

I'm 24, graduated as a EE technologist 2 years ago (I'm in Canada). I worked
as an electrician before I started college, and continued throughout school,
up until this February (about 5 yrs in total). At that time I got a job as
an Applications Specialist for a German valve manufacturer, I also do the IT
administration duties there. The company is great, nice people, laid back,
decent benefits, but not the greatest pay. I've only been there for 4 months
so I don't expect to be "the man" there just as yet.

My longer term goal is to work in the automation/robotics industry, or
something along the lines of control systems manager/plant operations
manager. I know people don't go into engineering for the money, I didn't,
but it does play a factor in day to day life, so a comfortable life is
important.

As mentioned earlier, I am an engineering technologist, not a degreed
engineer. Recently I have thought about going back to school to get an
engineering degree in either electrical or mechatronics, (which is what I
really have an interest in. My question is whether taking (min.) four years
out of my life at this point will really be worth it in the end. What is
more important, a 29 yr old with a degree but no experience, or a 29 yr old
technologist with 4-5 years of experience?

Most companies prefer someone with good experience to someone with a degree.
Having said that, I suspect that the PE mafia is going to eventually make it
very tough on non-PEs to get any kind of work in anything remotely involving
something that might be considered engineering so at your age you really
should give serious consideration to doing whatever it takes to get your PE,
even if it means putting your life on hold.
 
?

*

Jan 1, 1970
0
Get a BSEE, well worth it, your pay will be more than doubled, and over your
lifetime
you should make over $1 million (honest - but most goes to house, cars,
babies taxes etc)
lots of doors open.
Super tech has a glass ceiling, most never get past.
Good luck!
-from a MSEE, manager of many groups of EEs, at first a hands on tech for 6
years.
 
K

K Williams

Jan 1, 1970
0
Romy said:
Hello All,

Having a bit of a dilemma with my career/education, I just wanted
some input from people who have been in the industry longer than
me, (which is probably everybody here). I've been reading this
newsgroup for many years, and have already read many many posts in
the archives, so please be patient if I just don't "get it".

I'm 24, graduated as a EE technologist 2 years ago (I'm in
Canada). I worked as an electrician before I started college, and
continued throughout school, up until this February (about 5 yrs
in total). At that time I got a job as an Applications Specialist
for a German valve manufacturer, I also do the IT administration
duties there. The company is great, nice people, laid back, decent
benefits, but not the greatest pay. I've only been there for 4
months so I don't expect to be "the man" there just as yet.

My longer term goal is to work in the automation/robotics
industry, or something along the lines of control systems
manager/plant operations manager. I know people don't go into
engineering for the money, I didn't, but it does play a factor in
day to day life, so a comfortable life is important.

I'd try to get into a MSEE program, if you can handle it. A MS
wipes out any previous degree and should only take a couple of
years, giving you the best of both worlds. IMO, most companies
that do what you want to do are going to look seriously at the
degree (the HR types have their standards). I know where I work
even a BSEET degree gets you a glorified technician position (fixes
broken machines on the manufacturing floor). It's possible to move
from there, but *very* difficult.
As mentioned earlier, I am an engineering technologist, not a
degreed engineer. Recently I have thought about going back to
school to get an engineering degree in either electrical or
mechatronics, (which is what I really have an interest in. My
question is whether taking (min.) four years out of my life at
this point will really be worth it in the end. What is more
important, a 29 yr old with a degree but no experience, or a 29 yr
old technologist with 4-5 years of experience?

Again, try to get into a MSEE program. You might have to take a few
additional courses, but it should be far easier (and less time)
than starting over, if anyone will even let you. BS programs don't
seem to like to admit people with other BS degrees.
This post is already getting a bit on the long side, so I'll
continue to provide more info as the posts go on.
Any input is appreciated, opinions, advice, etc. good or bad.

Go for the MSEE degree, if that's what you want to do. There is a
chance your employer will pay the freight too (though it will take
longer, obviously).
 
Romy said:
Hello All,

Having a bit of a dilemma with my career/education, I just wanted some input
from people who have been in the industry longer than me, (which is probably
everybody here). I've been reading this newsgroup for many years, and have
already read many many posts in the archives, so please be patient if I just
don't "get it".

I'm 24, graduated as a EE technologist 2 years ago (I'm in Canada). I worked
as an electrician before I started college, and continued throughout school,
up until this February (about 5 yrs in total). At that time I got a job as
an Applications Specialist for a German valve manufacturer, I also do the IT
administration duties there. The company is great, nice people, laid back,
decent benefits, but not the greatest pay. I've only been there for 4 months
so I don't expect to be "the man" there just as yet.

My longer term goal is to work in the automation/robotics industry, or
something along the lines of control systems manager/plant operations
manager. I know people don't go into engineering for the money, I didn't,
but it does play a factor in day to day life, so a comfortable life is
important.

As mentioned earlier, I am an engineering technologist, not a degreed
engineer. Recently I have thought about going back to school to get an
engineering degree in either electrical or mechatronics, (which is what I
really have an interest in. My question is whether taking (min.) four years
out of my life at this point will really be worth it in the end. What is
more important, a 29 yr old with a degree but no experience, or a 29 yr old
technologist with 4-5 years of experience?

This post is already getting a bit on the long side, so I'll continue to
provide more info as the posts go on.
Any input is appreciated, opinions, advice, etc. good or bad.


Thanks,
Romy
Romy,

As a person who advanced their education when they saw they were not
going where they wanted fast enough (a long time ago), I would say you
have several things going for you:

First you have identified what you would most like to do, and that is
something a lot of people never achieve. Having found what you like to
do will truly enable you to "Never work another day in your life." That
is the saying about finding an occupation that you enjoy doing, versus
simply doing it for a living. Follow what you enjoy doing, and my guess
is you will excel at it and the money will follow you because of the
skill level you achieve.

It is sometimes unfair that a person with real skill does not get a
chance without some degree to open the door. That is simply life. Once
you enter that door and make a name for yourself, people are willing to
overlook your lack of formal education. But you must get the door to
open first. Get your degree.

If you have identified a company and job that you would love to
perform, go there and ask them what you must do to qualify for that job.
Not only will you learn what you must do, but you will impress the
company with your willingness to do what you must to qualify. Who
knows, a job may be waiting for you when you graduate?

I will not go into detail about my experiences, except to say I
realized very early that I needed to acquire more education. That
education allowed me to do what I loved and work for a large company
where I hired hundreds of electronic technicians and retire at age 49.
Not bad, not bad at all! Good luck.
 
J

Jaja

Jan 1, 1970
0
Romy,

As a person who advanced their education when they saw they were not
going where they wanted fast enough (a long time ago), I would say you
have several things going for you:

First you have identified what you would most like to do, and that
is something a lot of people never achieve. Having found what you like
to do will truly enable you to "Never work another day in your life."
That is the saying about finding an occupation that you enjoy doing,
versus simply doing it for a living. Follow what you enjoy doing, and
my guess is you will excel at it and the money will follow you because
of the skill level you achieve.

It is sometimes unfair that a person with real skill does not get a
chance without some degree to open the door. That is simply life. Once
you enter that door and make a name for yourself, people are willing to
overlook your lack of formal education. But you must get the door to
open first. Get your degree.

If you have identified a company and job that you would love to
perform, go there and ask them what you must do to qualify for that job.
Not only will you learn what you must do, but you will impress the
company with your willingness to do what you must to qualify. Who
knows, a job may be waiting for you when you graduate?

I will not go into detail about my experiences, except to say I
realized very early that I needed to acquire more education. That
education allowed me to do what I loved and work for a large company
where I hired hundreds of electronic technicians and retire at age 49.
Not bad, not bad at all! Good luck.

I'm at a similar crossroads in my career. I already have a degree in
electronics engineering and control systems, but never really worked in
soimething related to it. Where i'm from (Chile) there are not many
interesting jobs in this field, and when i was offered one two years ago
as a control systems engineer for the Gemini telescope, i was already
working as an engineering manager and thought that i would be better off
continuing on that path.

The truth is that i never felt comfortable in the business world and
although i was making good money i wasn't achieving my best. After these
years i 've realized that what i really like is to work in control
systems and now i'm thinking about going back to school to get a masters
or phd in to improve my chances of getting an interesting job (and also
having fun learning, of course). Any suggestions?

"[email protected]" touched a nerve with his/her posting. Working on
what you really enjoy is the way to go.
 
Jaja said:
I'm at a similar crossroads in my career. I already have a degree in
electronics engineering and control systems, but never really worked in
soimething related to it. Where i'm from (Chile) there are not many
interesting jobs in this field, and when i was offered one two years ago
as a control systems engineer for the Gemini telescope, i was already
working as an engineering manager and thought that i would be better off
continuing on that path.

The truth is that i never felt comfortable in the business world and
although i was making good money i wasn't achieving my best. After these
years i 've realized that what i really like is to work in control
systems and now i'm thinking about going back to school to get a masters
or phd in to improve my chances of getting an interesting job (and also
having fun learning, of course). Any suggestions?

"[email protected]" touched a nerve with his/her posting. Working on
what you really enjoy is the way to go.

By Control systems engineer, I would assume this would include working
on automation systems? If this is the case, just about any large
manufacturing plant has items like those to design and control.
Automobile, petroleum, food processing, you name it. This is why the
level of productivity has consistently risen in recent years.

If this is the type of work you would prefer, perhaps you are limiting
your potential employers because you fear there is no such applications
of your field??
 
M

mee

Jan 1, 1970
0
I'm an EE, and I work alongside a many technologists in my engineering dept
(located in ont). They hold the same job titles as other EEs and they get
paid the same. As long as the person is bright and, most importantly, has
the right experience, he can be promoted here. I think it's probably the
same in most places.

You might be shooting yourself in the foot if you go for the degree, but
taking extra college courses to fill in the your cracks might put you up
there.
 
R

Romy Singh

Jan 1, 1970
0
mee said:
I'm an EE, and I work alongside a many technologists in my engineering dept
(located in ont). They hold the same job titles as other EEs and they get
paid the same. As long as the person is bright and, most importantly, has
the right experience, he can be promoted here. I think it's probably the
same in most places.

You might be shooting yourself in the foot if you go for the degree, but
taking extra college courses to fill in the your cracks might put you up
there.

Thanks for the reply. Regardless of what I do, I WILL be taking some sort of
classes, even if it's only part-time, which at the very least will be either
some computer or mechatronics courses. I see you're in Ontario, When I was
looking for a job, I found it a little difficult finding a good interesting
job which didn't require a degree. I'm in the GTA and it just seems flooded
with engineers, even people who don't like it are doing it. Out of
curiousity, whereabouts (city?) do you work, (you don't need to mention the
company if you don't wish to).

Thanks for the uplifting reply. I'm not one to judge myself, but in the two
"real" jobs I've had I've seemed to make a name for myself and earn the
respect of others. However trying to prove that in an interview is almost
impossible.


Romy
 
R

Romy Singh

Jan 1, 1970
0
Bob Peterson said:
the

Most companies prefer someone with good experience to someone with a degree.
Having said that, I suspect that the PE mafia is going to eventually make it
very tough on non-PEs to get any kind of work in anything remotely involving
something that might be considered engineering so at your age you really
should give serious consideration to doing whatever it takes to get your PE,
even if it means putting your life on hold.

Thanks Bob,

I have been putting some very serious thought into going back to school.
I've been talking to many people, and even decided to ask here as I would
get a fair and unbiased opinion. As you can expect, after just being in my
very first engineering position, it isn't an easy decision to just walk out
and go back to school for another 4 years, only to face the "no job, no
experience" thing again. Your comments, as well as everybody else's will
play a factor in my decision, so thanks to everybody who has taken the time
to give me some feedback, I look forward to receiving more soon.


Romy
 
R

Romy Singh

Jan 1, 1970
0
Just Another Green said:
Remember that friends are a good thing to have all over
the place. Keep a lot of old contacts in your rolodex, and
call them every few years or so to find out what they are
up to. The least that will happen is you will have a good
feel for the state of the industry.

Good advice, I'll be sure to keep that in mind.
 
R

Romy Singh

Jan 1, 1970
0
K Williams said:
Dunno. A $megabuck over 30-40 years isn't a lot these days (that's
only $30K/year!). I look at the costs of college these days, and
I'm not convinced it's a financially sound investment, even at a
two-mill lifetime earnings. Certainly better is out there. I've
made far more than a million in today's dollars. OTOH, I only
spent a small fraction of today's education costs (and I paid out
of my pocket, something that I see as virtually impossible today).

In short, if you're an engineer, go for it. If not, do the
"plumbing" thing.

Well, I wanted out from the electrician job not because I didn't like it,
(the guys I worked with made it fun), but because I just wasn't challanged
enough, and I also wanted to put my eduaction to work a little bit more.

As for the cost, going back to school full-time will put me out of pocket
about $250,000 once it's all said and done. I'm not so much worried about
the money (lost income, tuition, etc.) but more worried about any real
benefit in the end. No form of education is a waste, but who knows if I'll
even be interested in doing engineering when I'm done, or for very long. t
seems like very few people actually do what they want, and everybody seems
to be changing jobs every 5 years.


Romy
 
K

K Williams

Jan 1, 1970
0
* said:
Get a BSEE, well worth it, your pay will be more than doubled, and
over your lifetime
you should make over $1 million (honest - but most goes to house,
cars, babies taxes etc)
lots of doors open.
Super tech has a glass ceiling, most never get past.
Good luck!

Dunno. A $megabuck over 30-40 years isn't a lot these days (that's
only $30K/year!). I look at the costs of college these days, and
I'm not convinced it's a financially sound investment, even at a
two-mill lifetime earnings. Certainly better is out there. I've
made far more than a million in today's dollars. OTOH, I only
spent a small fraction of today's education costs (and I paid out
of my pocket, something that I see as virtually impossible today).

In short, if you're an engineer, go for it. If not, do the
"plumbing" thing.
-from a MSEE, manager of many groups of EEs, at first a hands on
tech for 6 years.

....from a thirty-year BSEE engineer. Management? ptooie! I didn't
become an engineer to babysit others.
 
As for the cost, going back to school full-time will put me out of pocket
about $250,000 once it's all said and done. I'm not so much worried about
the money (lost income, tuition, etc.) but more worried about any real
benefit in the end. No form of education is a waste, but who knows if I'll
even be interested in doing engineering when I'm done, or for very long. t
seems like very few people actually do what they want, and everybody seems
to be changing jobs every 5 years.

Romy .....Im 46 and face the same dilemma you are
facing

I never went to collge.....only finished high school.
Believe me that was probably a mistake. Like others
have said a college degree doesn't guarantee you
success.... but it does open more "doors"

Having said that Ive contemplated going back to school
myself and slowly getting a degree of some sort over
many years time. Id have to do it over 10 yrs or
so....as i must work full time and go to school both.

Anyway.....Ive often wondered if it would "pay back '
at my age. Ive also wondered what degree I would get.
I mean Im just not sure if id get into the tech areas
nowdays. I think id be more inclined into getting into
the health field or maybe a general business degree
with a minor in computers
 
M

mee

Jan 1, 1970
0
Romy Singh said:
Thanks for the reply. Regardless of what I do, I WILL be taking some sort of
classes, even if it's only part-time, which at the very least will be either
some computer or mechatronics courses. I see you're in Ontario, When I was
looking for a job, I found it a little difficult finding a good interesting
job which didn't require a degree. I'm in the GTA and it just seems flooded
with engineers, even people who don't like it are doing it. Out of
curiousity, whereabouts (city?) do you work, (you don't need to mention the
company if you don't wish to).

Well, now that I think about it some more - I wouldn't rule out getting that
degree at your age. By studying at a large school such as UofT, you could
condense the study period into 2 or 3 years by taking classes all
year-round.
 
R

Romy Singh

Jan 1, 1970
0
---Snip---
Well, now that I think about it some more - I wouldn't rule out getting that
degree at your age. By studying at a large school such as UofT, you could
condense the study period into 2 or 3 years by taking classes all
year-round.

I haven't ruled it out yet. I sent my transcripts to the University of
Waterloo to see if I can get any credit towards the degree, (or if I can
even get accepted at all). Lakehead University also has a program which
allows technologists to continue studying there for an additional 2.5 years
and earn a B. Eng out of it. But I haven't heard many good things about
them.

I've thought about going to school year-round to shorten the length of time.
I'll have to take a look at the courses a bit more to see how the
pre-requisites work. I'm still a little confused as to how much all this
will really benefit me, especially because I'm not really into ASIC,
communications, programming etc which is seems to be what most EE programs
are all about these days. I like microcontrollers and all, but I like it as
a hobby, not too sure I'd like to do it all day, everyday.


Thanks again,
Romy
 
K

K Williams

Jan 1, 1970
0
Romy said:
Well, I wanted out from the electrician job not because I didn't
like it, (the guys I worked with made it fun), but because I just
wasn't challanged enough, and I also wanted to put my eduaction to
work a little bit more.

I fear that you may not like "electronics" any better. Greener
grass, and all that.
As for the cost, going back to school full-time will put me out of
pocket about $250,000 once it's all said and done. I'm not so much
worried about the money (lost income, tuition, etc.) but more
worried about any real benefit in the end.

You may be independently wealthy, but you're a rare breed. Most of
us look at an education as an investment. I'm starting to believe
it's not a good one.
No form of education is a waste,

Nonsense! There are only so many "history professorships"
available. Higher education is an investment. If you're rich
enough that you can throw a quarter-of-a-megabuck away, perhaps you
should do what you're doing for a couple of more years and then
retire to a yacht in the South-Pacific.
but who knows if I'll even be interested in doing
engineering when I'm done, or for very long. t seems like very few
people actually do what they want, and everybody seems to be
changing jobs every 5 years.

I've changed jobs about ever five years, but have had the same
employer for thirty. Would I make the same decisions in today's
climate, good grief no!
 
J

John Gilmer

Jan 1, 1970
0

For folks to pick and choose education is a pretty good investment.

The issue is clouded by that fact that smart folks without formal education
often do quite well.

Bill Gate$ was a college dropout.

Most of the "robber barons" on the 19th and early 20th century didn't even
finish what would be called high school today.

But education (in the right field, not just a degree in "liberal arts") will
just about guarantee you a comfortable living working in an air conditioned
office (if that's what you want.)

Without the education, you are on your own.
 
K

K Williams

Jan 1, 1970
0

Take four years earning potential and a hundred thousand dollars.
plus all interest, against one of the trades. I'm not so sure
college is a wise financial choice, these days. It was thirty
years ago, but I'm not so convinced it is today.

Of course if it's what you *want* to do, that's a different thing.
Some people really want to be music history majors too. ;-)
 
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