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capacity chart for alkaline batteries?

D

default

Jan 1, 1970
0
Anyone know where I can find some capacity information on regular
alkaline Cells? I have an MP3 player that eats the single AAA cell
and want to know what I can gain by wiring an external AA, or C cell
in.

Can't use NiMH types - dies at 1.2 volts.
 
M

mkaras

Jan 1, 1970
0
default said:
Anyone know where I can find some capacity information on regular
alkaline Cells? I have an MP3 player that eats the single AAA cell
and want to know what I can gain by wiring an external AA, or C cell
in.

Can't use NiMH types - dies at 1.2 volts.

You can see capacity information on battery data sheets from the
manufacturer. Most battery compamies can provide this stuff on the
"comercial" or "industrial" sections of their web sites.

Here are some links to Panasonic Alkaline batteries for AAA, AA, and C
size cells:

http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/battery/oem/images/pdf/AAA_Ind_Alka_Bat_Data_Sheet.pdf
http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/battery/oem/images/pdf/AA_Ind_Alka_Bat_Data_Sheet.pdf
http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/battery/oem/images/pdf/C_Ind_Alka_Bat_Data_Sheet.pdf


- mkaras
 
T

Tam/WB2TT

Jan 1, 1970
0
default said:
Anyone know where I can find some capacity information on regular
alkaline Cells? I have an MP3 player that eats the single AAA cell
and want to know what I can gain by wiring an external AA, or C cell
in.

Can't use NiMH types - dies at 1.2 volts.

According to the Energizer Bunny:

AAA = 1250 mah
AA = 2850
C = 8350
D = 20500

Since the C and the D cost the same, I would go with the D.


Tam
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
default said:
Anyone know where I can find some capacity information on regular
alkaline Cells? I have an MP3 player that eats the single AAA cell
and want to know what I can gain by wiring an external AA, or C cell
in.

Can't use NiMH types - dies at 1.2 volts.

Do you think it could work with two of those plus a couple of large
enough Schottkys?
 
E

Eeyore

Jan 1, 1970
0
mkaras said:
You can see capacity information on battery data sheets from the
manufacturer. Most battery compamies can provide this stuff on the
"comercial" or "industrial" sections of their web sites.

Here are some links to Panasonic Alkaline batteries for AAA, AA, and C
size cells:

http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/battery/oem/images/pdf/AAA_Ind_Alka_Bat_Data_Sheet.pdf
http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/battery/oem/images/pdf/AA_Ind_Alka_Bat_Data_Sheet.pdf
http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/battery/oem/images/pdf/C_Ind_Alka_Bat_Data_Sheet.pdf

Note that end of life is specced at 0.8V !

Graham
 
L

Luhan

Jan 1, 1970
0
Joerg said:
Do you think it could work with two of those plus a couple of large
enough Schottkys?

How's about a lithium-ion cell with a switching regulator?

Luhan
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Luhan said:
How's about a lithium-ion cell with a switching regulator?

That would be the high-tech solution with a very good nerd factor ;-)

No idea what small Li-Ion cells cost but for the regulator there are a
lot of modern and small footprint solutions available at TI, National
etc. Could be a bit noisy though in case that MP3 player contains a radio.
 
default said:
Anyone know where I can find some capacity information on regular
alkaline Cells? I have an MP3 player that eats the single AAA cell
and want to know what I can gain by wiring an external AA, or C cell
in.

Can't use NiMH types - dies at 1.2 volts.

I make it a point not to buy products that use AAA batteries. Capacity
is propoertional to the square of the diameter, so using AA versus AAA
is a big deal. Also, AA cells are quite cheap. Having done some
capacity testing, get any alkaline. The difference between brands is
small.
 
T

Terran Melconian

Jan 1, 1970
0
Anyone know where I can find some capacity information on regular
alkaline Cells? I have an MP3 player that eats the single AAA cell
and want to know what I can gain by wiring an external AA, or C cell
in.

Generally the manufacturers will provide some information:

http://data.energizer.com/
http://www.duracell.com/oem/primary/alkaline/alkaline_manganese_prod.asp
http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/battery/oem/chem/alk/index.html#data

Of these, the first had the most straightforward list of nominal
energies in batteries of different sizes. It should be plenty for the
rough ratio of AA to AAA information you are looking for.

The short version cut-and-paste:

Type Amp-hours
AAA 1.250
AA 2.850
C 8.350
D 20.500

As for the NiMH, you have tried it, and not based your conclusion about
the voltage cutoff based on the fact that the Alkalines that come out
show 1.2v when it says they're dead, right? An alkaline which shows
1.2v with no load will probably sag much lower when loaded than NiMH
batteries would run.
 
D

default

Jan 1, 1970
0
Anyone know where I can find some capacity information on regular
alkaline Cells? I have an MP3 player that eats the single AAA cell
and want to know what I can gain by wiring an external AA, or C cell
in.

Can't use NiMH types - dies at 1.2 volts.
Thanks for all the responses. It is looking like C may be my best
option. This thing hangs from my neck in a hacked waterproof
container for kayaking - the D size, unfortunately, won't fit.
 
D

default

Jan 1, 1970
0
I make it a point not to buy products that use AAA batteries. Capacity
is propoertional to the square of the diameter, so using AA versus AAA
is a big deal. Also, AA cells are quite cheap. Having done some
capacity testing, get any alkaline. The difference between brands is
small.

I'm right with you there - hate the AAA for most things. Cost of the
player was a consideration, and I'll add an outboard battery holder.
 
D

default

Jan 1, 1970
0
As for the NiMH, you have tried it, and not based your conclusion about
the voltage cutoff based on the fact that the Alkalines that come out
show 1.2v when it says they're dead, right? An alkaline which shows
1.2v with no load will probably sag much lower when loaded than NiMH
batteries would run.

Yes I did try it. Considered two AA NiMH with some dropping diodes
but that sounds wasteful too. At ~1.3 volts I hear an occasional
thump after a loud passage - so I think it is borderline at 1.3.
 
D

default

Jan 1, 1970
0
How's about a lithium-ion cell with a switching regulator?

Luhan

I try not to get too involved or pricey with this stuff - I've upset
the kayak a few times, so anything that goes with me is disposable or
nearly so.
 
D

default

Jan 1, 1970
0
According to the Energizer Bunny:

AAA = 1250 mah
AA = 2850
C = 8350
D = 20500

Since the C and the D cost the same, I would go with the D.


Tam

I'll try a C cell - it has to hang around my neck so light is helpful,
and it might be nice if it floats.
 
I

Ian Stirling

Jan 1, 1970
0
I make it a point not to buy products that use AAA batteries. Capacity
is propoertional to the square of the diameter, so using AA versus AAA
is a big deal. Also, AA cells are quite cheap. Having done some
capacity testing, get any alkaline. The difference between brands is

NiMH AAA is _quite_ adequate for 90% of flash mp3 player use.

I get about 10 hours from one cell.

I would not hesitate in returning a MP3 player that died at 1.2V - it
gets maybe 20% (IIRC) of the energy out of even an alkaline AAA cell.

Modern NiMH AAA cells are quite good - I've got a torch that puts out 1W
for >40 mins, on one AAA cell, and happily sits on my keyring.
 
I

Ian Stirling

Jan 1, 1970
0
Joerg said:
That would be the high-tech solution with a very good nerd factor ;-)

No idea what small Li-Ion cells cost but for the regulator there are a
lot of modern and small footprint solutions available at TI, National
etc. Could be a bit noisy though in case that MP3 player contains a radio.

Cheap and small.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/ should have links.
They are used in flashlights and other stuff - for example, to get 3W
out of an AAA sized cell.
 
D

David L. Jones

Jan 1, 1970
0
default said:
Anyone know where I can find some capacity information on regular
alkaline Cells? I have an MP3 player that eats the single AAA cell
and want to know what I can gain by wiring an external AA, or C cell
in.

Can't use NiMH types - dies at 1.2 volts.

Your MP3 player dies at 1.2V?
If that is the case then it is a very poor design, and I'd suggest you
get a different one!
A good design will use up all the capacity in the battery, down to 0.8V
for Alkalines (or at least 1V), and also have a selectable software
setting for using NiMh cells.

Energizer & Duracell websites both have datasheets with capacity
curves, like this:
http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/E92.pdf

In your case your MP3 player will use a DC-DC converter which will
essentially be a constant power load, so use the constant power curve.
A real test in the actual product is often the only way to get an exact
figure though, but the graphs are good for ballpark stuff.

Dave :)
 
D

David L. Jones

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ian said:
NiMH AAA is _quite_ adequate for 90% of flash mp3 player use.

Agreed. There is a big market for the smaller size afforded by a AAA.
If you don't like it you can always get a larger player that takes
AA's.
I get about 10 hours from one cell.

I get 15 hours out of my Creative MuVoTX/FM

I don't know what voltage it dies at though, might have to measure
it...

Dave :)
 
T

Tam/WB2TT

Jan 1, 1970
0
David L. Jones said:
Your MP3 player dies at 1.2V?
If that is the case then it is a very poor design, and I'd suggest you
get a different one!................................

He is more than likely measuring the no load voltage. That is not to say
that it is 1.2V when the thing is running. I just went through that with a
camera. A 6V alk cell measured 6.0, but would not work the shutter. A new
battery fixed it. (It is an SLR; no autofocuss, no flash, battery was 10
years old).

Tam
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
default said:
I try not to get too involved or pricey with this stuff - I've upset
the kayak a few times, so anything that goes with me is disposable or
nearly so.

I once had the beer kayak and sure enough I rolled it. Took us almost an
hour to save all those cans.
 
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