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Capacitor charging

Discussion in 'General Electronics Discussion' started by Mark34, Sep 29, 2016.

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  1. duke37

    duke37

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    Jan 9, 2011
    To find the resistance of the voltmeter, measure the voltage of a battery and then measure again with a 1MΩ resistor in series. If the resistance is 10MΩ, the reading will be low by about 10%. If the resistance is 1MΩ then the voltage indicated will be half the original.

    I have a cheap digital voltmeter which fizzed when measuring 600V on the 1kV range. It has a resistance of 1MΩ. Looking inside, there is no component which could dissipate the required 1W.
     
  2. CDRIVE

    CDRIVE Hauling 10' pipe on a Trek Shift3

    4,960
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    May 8, 2012
    Trevor, you have Horror Freight in the UK too?:D Actually I'd bet that even this Horror Freight (you get it free with any purchase) DMM has a 10MΩ input resistance. I think I have one along with all the other give away stuff I've received from them. Sh!T loads of LED flashlights! ... Torches on your side of the pond.
    http://www.harborfreight.com/7-function-multimeter-98025.html
    I'll check it if I can find it.

    By far this is my favorite (get it free) item to date. :p
    http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?q=electric+fly+swatter

    Chris
     
  3. (*steve*)

    (*steve*) ¡sǝpodᴉʇuɐ ǝɥʇ ɹɐǝɥd Moderator

    25,497
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    Jan 21, 2010
    Amusingly enough those electronic fly swats are illegal to import into Australia.

    I'm not sure why. Maybe the flies have a good lobbyist.
     
  4. BobK

    BobK

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    Jan 5, 2010
    Hey, maybe that is what TheMaster is trying to build (in a different thread.)

    Bob
     
  5. CDRIVE

    CDRIVE Hauling 10' pipe on a Trek Shift3

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    May 8, 2012
    If so he's going to spend far more money in parts alone. Especially since HF gives them away free.

    Chris
     
  6. Mark34

    Mark34

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    Sep 23, 2016
    I made a diagram with the coil included, I am almost sure its correct .

    [​IMG]upload pic
     
  7. Mark34

    Mark34

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    Sep 23, 2016
    You guys are disappointing me, no one had the idea to remove the right side 2k resistor I removed it and I charge the capacitor to 300V haven't tried more.
     
  8. (*steve*)

    (*steve*) ¡sǝpodᴉʇuɐ ǝɥʇ ɹɐǝɥd Moderator

    25,497
    2,838
    Jan 21, 2010
    Well, if we had any idea what the "right side 2k resistor" was.

    It's also probably there for a reason. Maybe to prevent something from being overstressed?
     
  9. CDRIVE

    CDRIVE Hauling 10' pipe on a Trek Shift3

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    May 8, 2012
    I don't understand how that circuit could work as drawn. There's no DC (Collector / Emitter) current path. There isn't a current path for the transformer primary coil either.

    Chris
     
  10. 73's de Edd

    73's de Edd

    3,105
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    Aug 21, 2015
    Sir Mark34 . . . . . . .

    Wel l l l l . . . . . I'll just throw in my . . . . năm đồng . . . . . as per :


    " I am almost sure its correct . "

    Well then . . . . . just explain, to us, the power loop flow of the oscillator transistor ?

    I will rework the units schematic with all of its needed info, but with need of just a bit of fill in from you on the questions that are being posed . . . . just below.

    PLUS that mystery 2k resistor will get included . . . no extra charge !

    CONFIRM . . . . these already givens:

    The feedback / resistor at the base of the oscillator transistor is a 510 ohm unit.

    The oscillator transistor is a SS8850 . . . . which is being a
    -40VDC ---1.5A----1 Watt PNP transistor

    The battery pack is 6VDC . . .I viewed that holder which is the same as one that I use, but mine holds 8 cells. I readily use it with two double clipped jumper leads to string up as many cells as I plug into it, and then I can
    easily tap in at 1.5 through 12 volt levels.

    The SCR is a BTA16-800B . . . which is being a
    800VDC ---16A---50 ma gate Triac WITH built in snubber circuitry.

    NOW give info on the number on the central HV rectifier diode .
    PLUS the number on the diode that you left floating, with the extraction of the units right 2K series resistor . . . being just below it.

    CONSULTING MY POST 18 BLOW UP Drawing:
    (Repeated just below:

    Resistance measurements are needed from:

    The very BOTTOM terminal of your right GREEN terminal block . . .which is your circuits common ground buss . . . .TO . . . .
    1 . . . The centrally located HV rectifier diodes left lead.
    2 . . .The very BOTTOM terminal of your left GREEN terminal block
    3 . . . The second terminal UP of your left GREEN terminal block

    EXPECTATIONS:

    Measurement 1 will have the very greatest ohmmmage, while the other two will be significantly less.


    [​IMG]



    " You guys are disappointing me, no one had the idea to remove the right side 2k resistor. "

    " I am a novice in electronic circuits. "



    No idea involved at all . . . . just behaving the proven quantum physics of cause and effects and long time accrued KNOWLEDGE . . . . . now we ask you.

    Were you well positioned on the center of an intermediate mattress barrier and . . .considering the greater odds of you being right handed . . .using a sacrificial left arm to reach around the left side of the mattress to hold down the YELLOW switch ?.
    Then, you would need to make timely checks on the panel meter, for its displayed charged voltage level.
    BUT do so ONLY after a delay of the release of the YELLOW switch, for at least a full 10 seconds and then ONLY for a very quick peek.

    Alternatively, you could have used a 7 metre light wooden pole to press that yellow pushbutton, but you are then chancing yourself when coming up close enough to read the meter.
    The same shortfall . . . being outstanding . . . . if remoting the YELLOW switch wiring to an adjacent room behind its door.

    Will prep your schematics rework . . . . just after getting those needed data confirmations.



    73's de Edd
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 13, 2016
  11. Mark34

    Mark34

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    Sep 23, 2016
    The resistor at the base of the oscillator is 510 Ohms, oscillator transistor is a SS8850, the battery pack is 6VDC, I charged the capacitor once to 200V only with 2AA 3V, the SCR is a BTA16-800B, both diodes are IN4007, right bank removed resistor is 2k Ohms, the transformer seems to be 1:5 ratio cause I removed the right bank and it was supplying a steady 30V from the 6V battery bank.

    I checked the voltage after releasing the yellow charging button and its dropping like 1Volt per second from the initial charge like 200V.

    [​IMG]post images
     
  12. CDRIVE

    CDRIVE Hauling 10' pipe on a Trek Shift3

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    652
    May 8, 2012
    I don't think anyone is arguing with your results but it can't be wired as your schematic shows.

    Chris
    [​IMG]
     
  13. 73's de Edd

    73's de Edd

    3,105
    1,312
    Aug 21, 2015
    As per above . . . .

    Can't complete schematic with out this info completed below . . . . which gives me the windings relationships and interconnects.


    Resistance measurements are needed from:

    The very BOTTOM terminal of your right GREEN terminal block . . .which is your circuits common ground buss . . . .TO . . . .
    1 . . . The centrally located HV rectifier diodes left lead.
    2 . . .The very BOTTOM terminal of your left GREEN terminal block
    3 . . . The second terminal UP of your left GREEN terminal block

    73's de Edd
     
  14. Mark34

    Mark34

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    Sep 23, 2016
    Sorry I am a bit late...
    1. 80ohms
    2. 7ohms
    3. 500ohms

    This is with the right side 2k resistor removed.
     
  15. 73's de Edd

    73's de Edd

    3,105
    1,312
    Aug 21, 2015
    .
    Sir Mark34 . . . . . . .


    Incorporating that final bit of info that you gleaned from the interconnect wiring of the power transformer of that unit.
    We now can come up with:

    Ring Repeller.png



    Your revelation of the difference in the output of the unit while dumping into the somewhat lossy characteristics of an electroytic capacitor . . . . when later being compared to using a conventional totally dry dielectric capacitor , suggests of a produced waveform such as is being shown at the very top.

    I believe that the present transformer used, its drive transistor and the supply voltage used has just about totally peaked out their capacities..
    With your very final little voltage increase being acquired by the cutting out of the the units external resistor diode snubber / limiter combo. Since . . . . . the internals of this specified SCR can operate void of any external snubber.

    So you say that you now are seeing the aluminum ring shooting up into the air about 1/2 a meter from its initial resting place atop the core.

    Your son now says that he certainly thinks that it would be neat to see it reach up and touch the ceiling.

    That feat equates with a beefing up of the applied power being dumped into the repeller coil.
    This also equates with the old quantum physics axiom of inverse squares.
    You will be having to dump 4 times the power into the system to get twice the present effect.

    This very simple power supply circuit portion that I have isolated with the GREEN X's needs to be replaced with one worthy of the higher power level that is required in powering a power strobe flash or a capacitive discharge electronics ignition system as we see being used on automobiles.

    Or actually, on up above those power levels.

    You will just have to progressively ramp on up power storage and then evaluate at each step.
    The very first thing to find out is exactly what power consumption is now being used by your current power supply.
    That can be accomplished by taking DVM in hand and placing it in the function of measuring DC current. With your present transistor that you use see if you dont have a current range in the 200 ma region or on up to 1 amp . . . I can't see the instrument.
    Then confirm that the test leads are in the proper jacks, but that usually only involves lead changes for the 10 amp range.
    You then have a discharged capacitor to be charged up , so place your meter probes across the mom P.B. at the far left that powers up your unit.
    Then you want to see WHAT current level that your power supply pulls at initial meter contact, as it will gradually decline with the main storage capacitors charge build up.

    Break time . . .here . . . . .

    73's de Edd
     
    CDRIVE likes this.
  16. Mark34

    Mark34

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    Sep 23, 2016
    Thank you!
     
  17. CDRIVE

    CDRIVE Hauling 10' pipe on a Trek Shift3

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    May 8, 2012
    ED, accolades to you for deciphering Mark's sketchy schematics. That's a nice schematic drawing. What app did you create it in?

    Chris
     
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