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Canada's 'Big' Solar Announcement

Discussion in 'Photovoltaics' started by Brian Graham, Mar 22, 2006.

  1. Brian Graham

    Brian Graham Guest

    http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/03/21/solar060321.html

    From the article,

    "The government will pay an inflated price for the energy for 20 years to help make the project attractive: 42 cents a kilowatt-hour for solar and 11 cents for wind, biomass, or small hydroelectric projects. "

    "Premier Dalton McGuinty says he hopes the plan will see a quarter of a million homes powered by renewable energy within a decade. "

    He's dreaming, I should think. The incentive is so low, I don't think it would even pay the interest on the loan needed to buy the panels.

    Too bad. I'm aching for US-type programs which truly offset the cost of going solar. I'll have to go slow and steady instead..
     
  2. Brian Graham

    Brian Graham Guest

    Oops - sorry. Should clarify. That's the province of Ontario only. There's nothing for the rest of Canada that I'm aware of..
    http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/03/21/solar060321.html

    From the article,

    "The government will pay an inflated price for the energy for 20 years to help make the project attractive: 42 cents a kilowatt-hour for solar and 11 cents for wind, biomass, or small hydroelectric projects. "

    "Premier Dalton McGuinty says he hopes the plan will see a quarter of a million homes powered by renewable energy within a decade. "

    He's dreaming, I should think. The incentive is so low, I don't think it would even pay the interest on the loan needed to buy the panels.

    Too bad. I'm aching for US-type programs which truly offset the cost of going solar. I'll have to go slow and steady instead..
     
  3. Guest

    Really? What do you pay for electricity? I would think that 42 cents for
    the surplus would be a good deal. In California, my sell-back varies with
    time of day and season, but peaks at about $0.30. I hope that's more than
    enough to pay the interest on the loan.
    Are you referring to a bulk credit up front, instead of higher rates over
    the life of the project?
     
  4. Brian Graham

    Brian Graham Guest

    http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/03/21/solar060321.html
    Really? What do you pay for electricity? I would think that 42 cents for
    the surplus would be a good deal. In California, my sell-back varies with
    time of day and season, but peaks at about $0.30. I hope that's more than
    enough to pay the interest on the loan.

    Well, if its a 30K investment, 5% interest would be $1500 the first year. OTOH, if you were able to gen 1Kw above your consumption - a sizeable assumption, I believe - you would collect $.42 x 1 (kw) x 4.5 (avg solar insolation here) x 365 = $689 per annum. About 1/2 the first year's interest. I'm not positive about Ottawa's numbers, but I believe they're 2.5 winter and 6.5 summer with an avg of 4.5 iirc .
    Are you referring to a bulk credit up front, instead of higher rates over
    the life of the project?

    Absolutely. I'd sure rather see an incentive plan which rebates say 25% of my purchase. Who needs to sell to the grid? Just get off it. (Sure would be nice! :)
     
  5. Guest

    Why do people rent, when they can buy a house in an area where the loan
    payments are less than rent?

    If I tell someone that my solar system will pay for itself in 10 years,
    whether that is true or not, they are not interested in making the
    commitment.

    My next door neighbors chose not to install solar because of the $45,000
    install price. Instead they will pay $500 per month to PG&E this year, who
    knows how much in ten years.

    Somewhere around a 400% subsidy, maybe they'll change their minds ;-)
     
  6. Wait a minute, you have to include the money you save by not paying
    for your consumption as well! [in fact, I'd wire things such that I
    got paid $.42 for everything I produced...]
     
  7. Guest

    Can't be too massive. The trick only works below 10kW.
    The spread isn't quite that wide, but you're on to something.
    You probably have to actually have a large solar installation at least
    approved, maybe never installed.

    It has to be done by a licensed installer to get the upfront rebates.
    The net metering might be different, but you have ... it does have to be
    installed. One of the steps is to submit the approved building permit
    sign-off. I suppose you could sell it all as soon as it's finished.

    There's probably no monitored correlation between the size of your system
    and the amount of energy that you push to the grid.
    That might work. It already does work for some reservoirs in Southern
    California, where water is pumped uphill at night, and drained down through
    generators during the day. They appear in the ISO list for California as
    generators with negative net contribution, as does solar.

    I think... I don't want to look it up for this discussion, that there are
    three levels of this scheme. Below 10kw works the way you want, buy low,
    sell high, but never at a profit, only reducing your bill to $0.

    Between 10 and 30kw, I think you can sell back the excess and get a check
    once a year, but that might be at wholesale rates in both directions.

    Above 30kw, you buy and sell at wholesale rates.

    Buying and maintaining the batteries would be expensive. Maybe you should
    just keep the solar panels instead.

    To recap: If you live in an area where the rebate and time-of-use net
    metering structure makes it profitable (reduction of expenses) to install
    solar, why doesn't everyone do it?
     
  8. wmbjk

    wmbjk Guest

    The spread isn't quite that wide, but you're on to something.
    You probably have to actually have a large solar installation at least
    approved, maybe never installed.[/QUOTE]

    He claims he has 1000W already, but perhaps those are only available
    for Usenet parade duty.
    Yes, and then there are the losses, the charger, the grid-tie
    inverter, and the biggest fly in the ointment - he claims he's
    building in Michigan, so you'd have to figure the cost of his
    cross-border extension cord.

    Wayne
     
  9. Guest

    Or $125 per month. If that eliminates a $250 electricity bill, you can pay
    down $100 of principal per month, and buy a few beers.
    The interest on the loan is tax deductible, worth another $25-30 per month.
    For my system, the California rebate was 31% of the installed price.
    So, would you purchase a grid-tie system if you lived in California?

    There is a US federal tax credit of $2,000.

    Different areas have different rebates.
    California is $2.80/watt.
    http://www.consumerenergycenter.org/erprebate/program.html

    Some cities in California add another $4.00/watt.
    If that can be taken along with the California subsidy, it would be free.
    Why doesn't everybody in Anaheim have Solar?
     
  10. Guest

    Uh-oh. California checks installations.
    "However, 16 systems had equipment installed that differed notably from
    final documentation and would require additional investigation to determine
    if the correct rebate was paid."
     
  11. SJC

    SJC Guest

    You can find information on the California policies here:

    http://www.consumerenergycenter.org/erprebate/index.html
     
  12. Guest

    California has two rebate schemes, I now discover.
    There is the well-funded plan, $2.80 per watt at time of installation.
    There is another plan, $0.50 per kWh generated, for the first three years.
    That is a pilot program, and doesn't have much funding available.

    The Canada plan doesn't say that there's a time limit, but maybe it is the
    same as the California plan, and ends after a short period.
     
  13. JME

    JME Guest

    One other Problem, the initial installation will require special inspection
    ($300) and an electronic meter ($5 per month).
     
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