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California to solar power its homes

C

chuck yerkes

Jan 1, 1970
0
H. E. Taylor said:
2004/08/06: Guardian(UK): California to solar power its homes

California is proposing to add solar power to a million homes in the
next 10 years, paid for by a surcharge on consumers' electricity bills
equivalent to about 15 pence a month. ....
The surcharge would raise $1bn (about £570m) in 10 years for the
installation programme, with the state using the money to give
rebates to home builders who install solar panels on new homes, and
incentives for installing panels on existing homes.
[...]
<http://www.guardian.co.uk/renewable/Story/0,2763,1277413,00.html>


Oh good. Ya know, the Governator really doesn't want to be seen as the
guy who added even MORE taxes to people's power bills.

Simple things like mandating certain (cheap) actions in new houses
could drop a lot of the costs of installing Solar. Things like
requiring conduit from roof to power area. Caps pipes to the roof
from the hot water area.

Hell, given our looming drought, better grey water handling would
cost some extra pipes and could stop water use a bunch.


No, as a guy hoping for a $0 power bill this year, I'm neither for
nor believing that a GOP governor would be for a consumer tax.

Especially when the are cutting funding to help us put up panels
and have removed rebates for water efficient appliances (they ran
out of money July 1 for that).

Hell, let me OVER generate power and apply the excess to my gas bill.
or give me cash.

these are just basics that don't cost anyone anything (PG&E can pay the
power provider or me) that they're not doing.
 
H

H. E. Taylor

Jan 1, 1970
0
2004/08/06: Guardian(UK): California to solar power its homes

California is proposing to add solar power to a million homes in the
next 10 years, paid for by a surcharge on consumers' electricity bills
equivalent to about 15 pence a month.

The plan, proposed by the California Environmental Protection
Agency, is intended to honour the election pledge of California's
governor, Arnold Schwarzenegger, to ensure that half of all new
homes in the state are built with solar power facilities.

The surcharge would raise $1bn (about £570m) in 10 years for the
installation programme, with the state using the money to give
rebates to home builders who install solar panels on new homes, and
incentives for installing panels on existing homes.
[...]
<http://www.guardian.co.uk/renewable/Story/0,2763,1277413,00.html>

<and so it begins>
-het


--
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary
depends upon his not understanding it." -Upton Sinclair

GeeWhizFile: http://www.autobahn.mb.ca/~het/energy/energy.html#Wunderbar
H.E. Taylor http://www.autobahn.mb.ca/~het/
 
G

G. R. L. Cowan

Jan 1, 1970
0
Bob said:
H. E. Taylor said:
2004/08/06: Guardian(UK): California to solar power its homes

California is proposing to add solar power to a million homes in the
next 10 years, paid for by a surcharge on consumers' electricity bills
equivalent to about 15 pence a month.

The plan, proposed by the California Environmental Protection
Agency, is intended to honour the election pledge of California's
governor, Arnold Schwarzenegger, to ensure that half of all new
homes in the state are built with solar power facilities.

The surcharge would raise $1bn (about £570m) in 10 years for the
installation programme, with the state using the money to give
rebates to home builders who install solar panels on new homes, and
incentives for installing panels on existing homes.
[...]
<http://www.guardian.co.uk/renewable/Story/0,2763,1277413,00.html>

<and so it begins>
-het

That's all well and good, unfortunately the money collected by any tax on
utility bills will find its way into the general fund which is in perpetual
deficit and will not be used for its intended purpose. The same thing
happens to gasoline taxes which are supposed to be used for roads and
infrastructure but instead find their way into the general fund while
traffic congestion throughout the state is worse than ever.

(1) Traffic congestion implies cars sitting with their engines running,
going slowly, or, in the hands of undisciplined drivers,
repeatedly dashing forward and then braking. High fuel consumption,
and therefore high revenue, per passenger-mile in any of these three
cases.

Those getting that revenue are not willingly going to spend it
in such a way as to prevent this, and reduce their take.

(2) According to the Canadian Automobile Association, fuel tax revenue
is about four times what is spent on roads.


--- Graham Cowan
http://www.eagle.ca/~gcowan/Paper_for_11th_CHC.doc --
How individual mobility gains nuclear cachet
 
S

SQLit

Jan 1, 1970
0
H. E. Taylor said:
2004/08/06: Guardian(UK): California to solar power its homes

California is proposing to add solar power to a million homes in the
next 10 years, paid for by a surcharge on consumers' electricity bills
equivalent to about 15 pence a month.

The plan, proposed by the California Environmental Protection
Agency, is intended to honour the election pledge of California's
governor, Arnold Schwarzenegger, to ensure that half of all new
homes in the state are built with solar power facilities.

The surcharge would raise $1bn (about £570m) in 10 years for the
installation programme, with the state using the money to give
rebates to home builders who install solar panels on new homes, and
incentives for installing panels on existing homes.
[...]
<http://www.guardian.co.uk/renewable/Story/0,2763,1277413,00.html>

<and so it begins>
-het

The govenerator Arnie has bill boards in Phoenix. The advertise that CA
wants your business. Ya like any person in AZ wants to move to a state that
is at least 20% more in costs. Not counting housing.+ Housing is like 50-70%
more than AZ. My little 1650 sqft home 6 years old would be $400k in some
areas. I paid less than $190k for it here.

Gray Davis and the eco-nuts created and perpetuated the mess. I will not be
solved by a few solar panels being installed.
During the rolling black outs I drove through Palm Springs, wind was about
20 mph and there was not one blade turning. NOT ONE. This is one of the
largest wind farms in the US. Someone is making a fortune and I would like
to buy shares.
 
J

James Baber

Jan 1, 1970
0
H. E. Taylor said:
2004/08/06: Guardian(UK): California to solar power its homes

California is proposing to add solar power to a million homes ...]
<http://www.guardian.co.uk/renewable/Story/0,2763,1277413,00.html>
There are a lot of people who are taking a short and limited view of solar power
as is presented here. I admit that today's costs are high, and yet some
important and currently valid advantages are poorly presented to the public.

Probably the biggest of these is the importance of the improvement of the
operation of the existing distribution network ("Grid") by the location of this
new source of power scattered throughout this grid. All of this "new" PV solar
production is fed into the grid very physically close to where it will be used
by others on the grid. This means that the utilities will NOT require nearly as
much expansion of the very expensive and hard to build major transmission lines.

I say hard to build and expensive because getting expanded required permissions,
rights of way, and land takes a lot of time, as well as much cash. The utility
companies, deservedly or not are considered by the public as cash cows. And,
there is a decided problem of not in my back yard, which is a BIG problem when
what the utility needs is a straight line from A to B.

A secondary consideration is the fact that solar power is also produced at the
same time of day that "new power" is generally needed by expanding populations,
frequently to offset the heat of the very source of the solar power.

I admit that solar power cannot replace other sources and that it is at best a
good peaking source, but in conjunction with sources such as hydro power which
can be easily matched on demand with the solar production, it does make for an
excellent combination that does not continually degrade the environment and
makes for good economic reality besides the actual cost of power. Note that the
solar power would conserve the water during the daytime for use to make power
with at night and during storms (they may be trying to figure out what to do
with the water in the storm anyway).

--

Jim Baber

(see my 10kW grid tied solar system at "www.baber.org")

1350 W Mesa Ave.
Fresno CA, 93711
(559) 435-9068
(559) 905-2204 cell

Email [email protected]
 
R

Roland Mösl

Jan 1, 1970
0
2004/08/06: Guardian(UK): California to solar power its homes
California is proposing to add solar power to a million homes in the
next 10 years, paid for by a surcharge on consumers' electricity bills
equivalent to about 15 pence a month.

Arnold Schwarzenegger is born in Styria Austria

There is also a great example about solar energy houses

http://www.pege.org/gemini-house
 
C

chuck yerkes

Jan 1, 1970
0
SQLit wrote:
....
The govenerator Arnie has bill boards in Phoenix. The advertise that CA
wants your business. Ya like any person in AZ wants to move to a state that
is at least 20% more in costs.

Yeah, but we pay that to not live in AZ. I'll mention that in the last
6 months of recording it, the temp has not been below 45 nor above 83.
Generally it's been in the 50s at night and 70s in the day.

My AC usage is nil. How much power does yours use?

Oh, and I can drive 30 minutes to a couple beaches.

Between growing up in Cambridge and living where I do, I've been near
the 2 of the first 3 ArpaNET nodes. I can see the school which
created TCP/IP and thus, the modern Internet. Can see from here where
Sun and Apple started. Around a ridge I can see where XEROX PARC
invented graphical windows systems and where the mouse was invented. I
can also spot where genes are being decoded and the next wave of
scientific innovation is being created.

Most of arizona has phones and electricity by now, right? Oh, and you
guys have the GOP guy who was *competant* enough to be president (but
didn't have the friends to buy it for him like the other guy).
Not counting housing.+ Housing is like 50-70%
more than AZ. My little 1650 sqft home 6 years old would be $400k in some
areas. I paid less than $190k for it here.

Well, 6 years ago, a friend paid $220k for a 2000 sqft home in the SF
East Bay. it's NOW worth over $500k. And he's selling it. How much can
you sell for now?
Gray Davis and the eco-nuts created and perpetuated the mess. I will not be
solved by a few solar panels being installed.

Um, no, that would be Pete Wilson and his buddies who deregulated energy
so that they'd make buckets of money and left our market in easy
position to be gamed.

Davis made a bad situation a worse negotiating in private. Of course he
didn't have secret meetings with his oil and energy buddies like Big
Dick Cheney.

No, Davis was drab, dull and inadequate. He wasn't evil like his
predecessors.
During the rolling black outs I drove through Palm Springs, wind was about
20 mph and there was not one blade turning. NOT ONE. This is one of the
largest wind farms in the US. Someone is making a fortune and I would like
to buy shares.

Don't think those rolling blackouts were due to demand or technical
problems. Believe that it was from companies whose owners are buddies
of the GOP and, directly, Bush and Cheney. Clear and obvious
manipulation. So far the GOP's FERC hasn't seen fit to correct a lot
about that. But poor Kenny-boy Lay might have to sell one of his 27
homes to cover his legal bills. Fortunately Dick is willing to go to
the wall for Kenny and the boys so Kenny shouldn't have to "go f*ck
[him]self."


(and the windmills in Altamont were running just fine then).


[and for the record, those "rolling blackouts" were spread over a state
the size of florida -> Wash DC. My only experience with it was a power
loss at 2:30 PM for 90 minutes at home while I was at work. My partner
was at home; called wondering what she should do (UPS meant that she
only had 2 hrs of power for the WiFi for her laptop - she only knew
the power was out because of the UPS beeping).
In a desperate move, she was forced to go have coffee and cupcakes in
town. Unbearable!
Our friends, a town over, were hit similarly all of twice. In short,
really minor consequences. (for comparison, my mom in New England loses
power for 3-4 days at a time every year or two due to ice storms. This
means cooking by lantern and no TV. Life goes on).]
 
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