Caddx NX8E ramblings:

[alarman]

Well, I'm going to try some other controls. I've been a faithful DSC user
since the inception of the 832 system, but it's time to look around. They
work great when they work, but lately, well...

I fired up a new NX8E last night, along with the NX408E 8-point wireless
receiver. Programming was pretty straightforward, downloading worked the
first time, (imagine that) and the wireless seems to work well. I really
like the selection of door/window transmitters, especially the micro unit
and the flush-mount unit. Slick! Thanks to VSS Doug for his guidance in
getting the hang of the learn mode programming.

I like the NX148E keypad a lot, but the Stay, Chime, Exit, and Bypass led's
are hard to see unless the keypad is mounted at eye level. The display is
larger than DSC, with more room for text,and the keys easier for my big ol'
fingers to navigate.

I like the DSC software better than Caddx, but maybe because it's more
familiar. The global upload was slooooooowwwwwwww. Kind of like a MaxSys,
not quick like the 832. I notice there is an option to delete the event log,
weird. I do not like the fact that the double-call timer is set at 45
seconds. I'd like to shorten that, but at least there is the sniffer mode if
I can find a Hayes 1200 smartmodem. (sigh), another modem? Seems I saw Caddx
has a module to make the sniffer mode work without the Hayes, so I'll be
looking at that. I kind of like my PM1200SA. (Thanks, Mark)

I don't necessarily want to mount the wireless receiver in the control can,
I usually remote it to a better location. Maybe there is a small can
designed for this purpose. Also, there doesn't seem to be a signal strength
test as with DSC, unless I'm missing something. Although, the DSC test is
not always a reliable indicator.

Many of my installs are in large custom homes, and the security control goes
in a flush enclosure. Not sure how the NX8E vertical slide-in board will
work in a flush enclosure. GE probably has this nailed, but I haven't seen
it yet.

I like the 2 amp power supply compared to the 500ma DSC offering, and the
Caddx can is more sturdy, and comes with a cam lock. Also, the large screw
terminals for terminating wires are a welcome change from the DSC micro
terminals. I know there must be a cable to connect the control to my laptop
for downloading, but it's not listed in the manual. And the NX8E board has a
header for a box tamper, but no cable is included to plug onto it. I do like
the built-in siren driver feature, though I haven't heard it yet. Hope it's
better that the old Ranger series drivers. (yech!)

I didn't see a CFM approval either, though they had that now. Looks like
there are lots of auxiliary output options and zone types, and I like the
auto CID and SIA reporting.

So far, I like the control overall, and it kind of reminds me of the old
9000E but with a smaller can, and a nicer keypad selection.

Looking forward to playing with this some more, and I'm interested in
thoughts and suggestions from experienced Caddx users.
js

 

[Charles Booth]

We've been using NX8(E) exclusively since 1998. Great panel. Does a
lot. Good integration with pads, xmitters, receivers, zone boards,
etc. Slow remote communication; needs improvement.

I have a job coming up that requires two NX8E's each with its own
account number, and only one phone line. Does anyone know how to
selectively and remotely communicate with two panels on the same phone
line?

I hope this product line becomes popular, so that the manufacturer
continues to make it. I've been in the business since 1963, and have
seen a lot of panels come and go. Always traumatic when a panel
ceases manufacture! Am 68 now, and do not look forward to researching
new equipment, learn new programming routines, etc.

My wife keeps telling me to sell the business and retire. Maybe so.

Then I can go into my back yard and find NEW ways to be aggravated:
poke around the soil for the cut worm son-of-a-bitch that cut off an
onion top that I started from seed way back in February (lost six
onions today; found and killed 5 cutworms - will be going outside in a
few minutes with flashlight to search and destroy); spray my two apple
trees to kill/control apple maggots and plum curculio; extra labor and
inventive ways to prevent leaf miners from destroying my spinach - by
using a spun-polyester material that is placed over the rows of
spinach, thus preventing the egg-laying son-of-a-bitch flies from
reaching the underside of the leaves - for supper last night we ate
spinach salad - great stuff - clean as a whistle; then there is the
root maggot, another type of fly which lays eggs near the base of the
plant, hatches and the feeds on the roots of the onion and cabbage
family - only defense is a soil application of liquid Diazanon; and
of course there is the hated squash-vine borer, a worm hatched from an
egg layed on the stem of all squash vines by a reddish flying bug -
haven't figured out yet how to counter this one. It burrows into the
stem and eats the flesh of the stem, starving the leaves further down
the vine, until it wilts and dies.

I ramble; my vegetable garden is 25' x 50'. Did I mention the racoons
that watch me nuture several varieties of corn for three months, and
the day before I'm ready to pick it, the racoons and all their cousins
descend upon the garden the night before and decimate ONLY the variety
that is ready for eating -- they leave the remaining immature
varieties alone for a few more weeks.

And then there is the groundhog(s) who will eat tomatoes, squash, and
leafy vegetables. I catch one or two each year in my Hav-a-hart trap,
but since I have no tolerance for such critters, I give each a quick
funeral. One day a few years ago I planted 150 bean seedlings in the
morning, left to go on a service call, returned several hours later to
find Mr. Groundhog had visited each seedling and eaten only one or two
leaves from each seedling - not the whole plant! - leaving about two
smaller leaves on each plant. I think it the nature of groundhogs not
to eat the entire plant, as that would leave the plant unable to
produce any more leaves; but by not eating the entire plant the animal
can come back a week or two later for another meal.

I use a butterfly net to catch a white "butterfly" (not large and
pretty like a monarch) that flits from cabbage leaf to cabbage leaf,
or kale leaf, or cauliflower leaf, or broccoli leaf. As it lands on
the underside of the leaf it deposits a white egg that if not brushed
off will result in a green worm that starts eating the leaf,
particularly the tender center leaves.

There isn't one vegetable that I can grow - except peas - that does
not require some type of defense to prevent decimation by insect and
rodent species. But even with peas I need to provide support for
them, as they grow to four feet in height, and if not supported, will
fall down in a heavy wind, causing them to be packed against one
another and begin to rot.

Gardening is supposed to be a hobby and good exercise and relaxing and
for the most part it sure is: there's nothing like fresh-picked lima
beans sauteed in butter, lightly salted and peppered. Or an ear of
corn, from stalk to stomach in less than 1/2 hour, or a red ripe
tomato right off the vine, or boiled fresh peas lightly
salted/buttered. Pan-fried okra - love the stuff! This and many
other taste delights makes me forget the insects and rodents!

For dessert or on my cereal (or the grandchildren's) we pick our own
blueberries, blackberries, raspberries.

Yes, NX8E is a great panel; though I'm not happy with the GE logo on
the keypad -- would much rather have the Caddx logo! The GE logo does
not connote exclusivity, but rather gives the impression of a
mass-produced commodity such as irons, refrigerators, blow dryers,
table-top radios, and, to use the vernacular, rather common.

Now to catch a few cutworms.

 

[Mark Leuck]

We've been using NX8(E) exclusively since 1998. Great panel. Does a
lot. Good integration with pads, xmitters, receivers, zone boards,
etc. Slow remote communication; needs improvement.

I have a job coming up that requires two NX8E's each with its own
account number, and only one phone line. Does anyone know how to
selectively and remotely communicate with two panels on the same phone
line?

A: Why would you want to do this?

B: You could make one use answering machine bypass and the other pick up
only after 8 rings

Yes, NX8E is a great panel; though I'm not happy with the GE logo on
the keypad -- would much rather have the Caddx logo! The GE logo does
not connote exclusivity, but rather gives the impression of a
mass-produced commodity such as irons, refrigerators, blow dryers,
table-top radios, and, to use the vernacular, rather common.

I disagree, people like to use familiar companies like GE, it gives them
confidence the product will be around a long time

 

[mezrac]

Just a couple of tips. Someone else mentioned the NX-586E module for
directly programming the panel. It's about 10 times faster if you are
onsite. We just sniff around on ebay for those old Hayes 1200 modems.
Got my last one for 21 plus shipping. In the download program under
the keypad text screen there is an option to "Set zones to read/write"
This can greatly speed up the up/download as you reduce the zone
messages from 384 to the 30 or 40 you are actually using.
Not sure about CFM. Last one I got had it. I wouldn't think GE would
let something like that slip.

mezrac

 

[alarman]

mezrac wrote

Just a couple of tips. Someone else mentioned the NX-586E module for
directly programming the panel. It's about 10 times faster if you are
onsite. We just sniff around on ebay for those old Hayes 1200 modems.
Got my last one for 21 plus shipping.

Thanks for the info. I just got my NX-586E today. As for the Hayes 1200
smartmodem, I think there is more than one model; any idea which one? The
Caddx NX8E manual I downloaded says you can use the Hayes 1200, or a "Caddx
1200 module". The manual that came with my NX8# control has that phrase
deleted, so I'm assuming the "Caddx 1200 module" is no longer available.

In the download program under
the keypad text screen there is an option to "Set zones to read/write"
This can greatly speed up the up/download as you reduce the zone
messages from 384 to the 30 or 40 you are actually using.

Good tip. I think I already did that (set zone to 8) but it still took
forever.

Not sure about CFM. Last one I got had it. I wouldn't think GE would
let something like that slip.

I didn't see a label in the can, and no mention in the docs. I'm making a
list of questions for Caddx.
js

 

[Mark Leuck]

mezrac wrote

Thanks for the info. I just got my NX-586E today. As for the Hayes 1200
smartmodem, I think there is more than one model; any idea which one? The
Caddx NX8E manual I downloaded says you can use the Hayes 1200, or a "Caddx
1200 module". The manual that came with my NX8# control has that phrase
deleted, so I'm assuming the "Caddx 1200 module" is no longer available.

The 07-000038 model Hayes 1200 is the holy grail of modems

 

[RH.Campbell]

During a recent visit to the Museum of Natural History here in Ottawa, in an
exhibit on past technologies which included early version mainframes from
IBM and other ancient (by today's standards) technologies, one of the
exhibits prominently displayed was a Hayes 1200 baud external modem......

I wonder....what does that say about the state of development of some parts
of our present day alarm technology.......)))

RHC

 

[Jackcsg]

During a recent visit to the Museum of Natural History here in Ottawa, in an
exhibit on past technologies which included early version mainframes from
IBM and other ancient (by today's standards) technologies, one of the
exhibits prominently displayed was a Hayes 1200 baud external modem......

I wonder....what does that say about the state of development of some parts
of our present day alarm technology.......)))

RHC

Here's something else worth knowing. Those early year mainframes IBM created
used a protocol they developed almost 40 years ago called SDLC to
communicate data. DMP uses that same protocol today, and is still the
fastest digital communicator in the world. The SDLC protocol is even older
than modem technology. What does that say about present day alarm
technology.....;-))

Jack

 

[alarman]

During a recent visit to the Museum of Natural History here in Ottawa, in an
exhibit on past technologies which included early version mainframes from
IBM and other ancient (by today's standards) technologies, one of the
exhibits prominently displayed was a Hayes 1200 baud external modem......

Any idea what they'd take for it?
js

 

[RH.Campbell]

Hahaha....I have to admit that's the first and only time I've ever been
tempted to steal something.....))

RHC

 

[RH.Campbell]

Point well made Jack!

Talking about modem technology and alarm panels, my understanding is the
panel manufacturers chose to "cludge" a modem in their panels rather than
using modern modem technology, simply to cut costs. It seems it would cost
about $5 per panel to license a Rockwell chip, but this would make their
panels uncompetitive in comparison to their competitors. And of course,
being the somewhat "cheap" industry we are (or should I sanitize it a bit by
saying "cost conscious to the extreme"...), we haven't demanded better from
the manufacturers.

However, considering that a significant number of alarm companies still are
not set up to do the simplest of remote downloads, it doesn't surprise me a
bit....( I give a lot of basic computer assistance to other small
independant local dealers in our area, and it staggers me to see them still
back in the early '90's as far as the equipment they are using (and their
computer knowledge level.....).

RHC

 

[mezrac]

Both the older 8 switch and the newer 10 switch models work and put
out that initial carrier tone. Part # 07-00038 is the newer model. A
quirk of the 8 switch model is the L(x) command hadn't been invented
because there is a volume knob on the back so it must be set to N/A or
removed from init strings. The portion of the string that triggers the
tone output (for caddx) is the S10=255 section of the init string. A
lower value will not put out the tone but will let you hear call
progress until the panel answers. Personally, I just leave the sound
on then turn down the knob when it is irritating. I don't think caddx
makes that 1200 module any longer, either. I don't know of other ways
to speed up the communication. Normally, for an operational panel we
only have to make small changes then send the range or section instead
of the whole thing.

 

[Jackcsg]

Point well made Jack!

Talking about modem technology and alarm panels, my understanding is the
panel manufacturers chose to "cludge" a modem in their panels rather than
using modern modem technology, simply to cut costs. It seems it would cost
about $5 per panel to license a Rockwell chip, but this would make their
panels uncompetitive in comparison to their competitors. And of course,
being the somewhat "cheap" industry we are (or should I sanitize it a bit by
saying "cost conscious to the extreme"...), we haven't demanded better from
the manufacturers.

There is a manufacturer that thinks outside the taco shell. They use a Fast
Modem card that snaps right into an expansion card and allows upload/down
load remotely over POTS from a standard hayes compatable modem at 9600 baud.
You know who. I use the Internet for uploading/downloading mostly, same 9600
baud.

However, considering that a significant number of alarm companies still are
not set up to do the simplest of remote downloads, it doesn't surprise me a
bit....( I give a lot of basic computer assistance to other small
independant local dealers in our area, and it staggers me to see them still
back in the early '90's as far as the equipment they are using (and their
computer knowledge level.....).

Careful your description border lines P1's operations

 

[alarman]

Both the older 8 switch and the newer 10 switch models work and put
out that initial carrier tone. Part # 07-00038 is the newer model. A
quirk of the 8 switch model is the L(x) command hadn't been invented
because there is a volume knob on the back so it must be set to N/A or
removed from init strings. The portion of the string that triggers the
tone output (for caddx) is the S10=255 section of the init string. A
lower value will not put out the tone but will let you hear call
progress until the panel answers. Personally, I just leave the sound
on then turn down the knob when it is irritating. I don't think caddx
makes that 1200 module any longer, either. I don't know of other ways
to speed up the communication. Normally, for an operational panel we
only have to make small changes then send the range or section instead
of the whole thing.

Thank you for your reply, I appreciate the tips.

I continue to play with the NX8E, and today I noticed that when the TLM went
into trouble, beeping the keypad,
1 I was unable to silence the trouble beeps with a valid code, and

2 Once silenced, and the phone line restored, the trouble message persisted
on the keypad. I had to arm and disarm to clear the message. I would prefer
that the beeps and message reset automatically when the TLM restores. This
will be a major PITA for me when customers have phone trouble. It's bad
enough that most of them think the alarm system is malfunctioning when the
TLM goes off, now it won't clear either??

I got my NX586E direct connect module yesterday. I like the ability to store
programs for up to 4 panels, but I don't like that I have to connect power
to it to download a panel.

A thought related to (1) above, I recall the old Ranger series panels
sometimes not accepting a valid code to disarm occasionally. I had this
happen to customers, and witnessed it myself a couple of times. Even pressin
g the # key to clear the buffer didn't help. I hope this bug didn't find
it's way into the new panels too.
js

 

[Mark Leuck]

During a recent visit to the Museum of Natural History here in Ottawa, in an
exhibit on past technologies which included early version mainframes from
IBM and other ancient (by today's standards) technologies, one of the
exhibits prominently displayed was a Hayes 1200 baud external modem......

I wonder....what does that say about the state of development of some parts
of our present day alarm technology.......)))

RHC

One of the computer stores down here has a mini museum with the same modem,
when they were new they cost $1200 which was likely the reason why few alarm
panels contain a real modem

 

[Mark Leuck]

in
Here's something else worth knowing. Those early year mainframes IBM created
used a protocol they developed almost 40 years ago called SDLC to
communicate data. DMP uses that same protocol today, and is still the
fastest digital communicator in the world. The SDLC protocol is even older
than modem technology. What does that say about present day alarm
technology.....;-))

Jack

That DMP is resistant to change?

 

[Mark Leuck]

Point well made Jack!

Talking about modem technology and alarm panels, my understanding is the
panel manufacturers chose to "cludge" a modem in their panels rather than
using modern modem technology, simply to cut costs. It seems it would cost
about $5 per panel to license a Rockwell chip, but this would make their
panels uncompetitive in comparison to their competitors. And of course,
being the somewhat "cheap" industry we are (or should I sanitize it a bit by
saying "cost conscious to the extreme"...), we haven't demanded better from
the manufacturers.

Also remember the goal is accuracy not speed

 

[Mark Leuck]

in modem......

Any idea what they'd take for it?
js

Try ebay, the average price for that one is about $50+, I've seen em go as
high as 100 for a new in box.

 

[G. Morgan]

There is a manufacturer that thinks outside the taco shell. They use a Fast
Modem card that snaps right into an expansion card and allows upload/down
load remotely over POTS from a standard hayes compatable modem at 9600 baud.
You know who. I use the Internet for uploading/downloading mostly, same 9600
baud.

The Fire Lite MS-9200 Rev. 2 has an optional 14.4 kbps modem for
downloads and remote monitoring.

 

[Charles Booth]

1 I was unable to silence the trouble beeps with a valid code, and

2 Once silenced, and the phone line restored, the trouble message persisted
on the keypad. I had to arm and disarm to clear the message. I would prefer
that the beeps and message reset automatically when the TLM restores. This
will be a major PITA for me when customers have phone trouble. It's bad
enough that most of them think the alarm system is malfunctioning when the
TLM goes off, now it won't clear either??

I too am unhappy with the inability of the panel to stop beeping when
the power restores (when it's programmed to alert the customer through
the keypad), or when dial tone returns. Its disturbing to neighbors
in apartments/condos.

The keypad alert is especially annoying when people are sleeping and
the electric company is turning off/on/repairing the power lines, and
the customer has just gotten back into bed after entering his code to
silence the pad, and the power shuts off again. I stopped programming
keypad alert on power loss when the system is armed/disarmed!
However, I always program for power loss reports to the central
station, if the power is still off after a specific length of time.