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C-tick database

Discussion in 'Hobby Electronics' started by Franc Zabkar, Mar 17, 2005.

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  1. Franc Zabkar

    Franc Zabkar Guest

    I recently asked the ACA to verify the C-tick certification number on
    a fake 400W ATX PSU, and to provide the name of the grantee, but they
    refused, citing privacy legislation. This begs the question, what
    prevents an unscrupulous vendor from using a fake certification code
    to sell a non-compliant item to a consumer, if that consumer is
    prevented from verifying the authenticity of that code? The FCC in the
    USA maintains a public database, why not Australia?


    - Franc Zabkar
     
  2. Phil Allison

    Phil Allison Guest

    "Franc Zabkar"

    ** That is utter bullshit - the name of the company that makes or imports
    electrical goods is not a private matter. Whom did you approach at the
    CA - some anonymous dickhead on the phone ???

    Presumably the PSU comes from a PC - why have you not tried to trace the
    importer from the supplier of that PC ??



    ** Using an un-registered number would be a serious offence - far more so
    than the item emitting a bit of RFI.


    ** Knowing which company the number refers to does not prove much .




    ........... Phil
     
  3. There is nothing to prevent counterfeit use of a supplier code. It is a
    regular occurrence and goes along with use of counterfeit electrical
    safety marks and approval numbers. Many PC power supplies in
    'unbranded' cases and the power cords supplied with them either
    have no marks, or use counterfeit marks.

    ACA supplier registration pre-dates the privacy act, but because supplier
    registration is not restricted to only companies the privacy legislation
    prevents making the data publicly available.

    The ACA used to make the data available over the phone. Now if
    you have a valid reason they will take your details and pass them along
    to the registered supplier, who may contact you at their option. It sucks.

    The can of worms got real squirmy about two/three years ago when
    the ACA was still giving out details. The registered supplier must
    be domeciled in Australia or New Zealand and many registered suppliers
    are just family/friends/aquaintances of someone employed at an overseas
    manufacturer and have nothing to do with the actual 'supply'
    (importation/sales).

    By releasing details of these private individuals the ACA was breaching
    the privacy Act and was advised by the AG's office to stop doing so.
    Because the database was not set up to distinguish between private and
    corporate registrations there was no way to easily make access of the dbase
    public.

    The ACA issued notice 3 (?) years ago to registered identities that
    their details would be published or made publicly available. However there
    was a lot of objections by IT importers and distributers who do not want the
    source of the product to be identifiable by end users. This was so warranty,
    support and sales inquiries would be passed back to retailers in the first
    instance,
    and to prevent grey market imports from burdening authorised distributors. The
    program was stopped before all suppliers had even been notified.

    It may still be in progress somehow, somewhere - I hope it is.
    Not anymore. The USA does not register the supplier if they use the
    "FCC mark" and a declaration of conformity, but the
    responsible party must (quote from 47CFR):

    § 2.1077 Compliance information.
    (1) Identification of the product, e.g.,
    name and model number;
    (2) A statement, similar to that contained
    in § 15.19(a)(3) of this chapter,
    that the product complies with part 15
    of this chapters; and
    (3) The identification, by name, address
    and telephone number, of the responsible
    party, as defined in § 2.909.
    The responsible party for a Declaration
    of Conformity must be located within
    the United States.

    =========================================
     
  4. Craig Hart

    Craig Hart Guest

    Obvious question: what is the c-tick number you're querying, and what
    markings are on the goods in question. Some of us here work in the IT
    industry at the wholesale level, and may be able to name the supplier if
    given those details.
     
  5. Franc Zabkar

    Franc Zabkar Guest

    There is an Australian company that publishes the names, addresses,
    and phone numbers of millions of Australians in their publicly
    accessible database, in paper format and on the Internet, without
    their explicit consent, and then charges them a fee to remove their
    personal details each and every year.


    - Franc Zabkar
     
  6. KLR

    KLR Guest

    Sounds a lot like Telstra white pages to me.Had such an argument with them recently over wanting a fee to remove
    my listing from the white pages.
     
  7. Franc Zabkar

    Franc Zabkar Guest

    OK, the C-tick number is N12657.

    The label on the cover reads as follows:

    =========================================
    L&C Technology Inc
    Model: LC-B400ATX

    +3.3V +5V +12V -12V -5V +5VSB
    28A 40A 17A 0.8A 0.3A 2A

    +5V & +3.3V combined load 220W
    +5V & +3.3V & +12V combined load 380W
    Total output is 400W max.
    =========================================

    The PCB is labelled "Y-B200 ATX Ver 2.8" which suggests a 200W rating.

    This circuit diagram appears identical to mine (mine has a few
    unpopulated locations):

    "LC-B250ATX ch. Y-B200-ATX ver. 2.9 JNC Computer Co."
    http://electro-tech.narod.ru/schematics/power/JNC_Y-B200-ATX.zip

    The +3.3V and +5V rails are each rectified by a S10C40C dual diode,
    and the +12V rail is rectified by two FR302 fast recovery diodes.

    According to their datasheets, the FR302 is rated at 3A, and the
    S10C40C is rated for 10A (5A per diode).

    http://www.mospec.com.tw/pdf/fast/FR301-FR307.pdf
    http://www.mospec.com.tw/pdf/schottky/S10C30CE-S10C60CE.pdf

    By my calculations, the actual total wattage (assuming the other
    components are up to it) is close enough to ...

    Pt = (3.3 x 10) + (5 x 10) + (12 x 6) + (5VSB x 2) + (-5/-12 wattage)
    = 175W approx

    Printed on the PSU PCB is the following legend:

    F5A/250V (for 180W -- 235W)
    F7A/250V (for 300W -- 350W)
    F6.3A/250V (for 250W)

    The installed fuse is rated at 5A. :-(

    The PC case looks like this one (JNC - RJA 70):
    http://www.jnc.com.tw/view.php?id=1&st1=13&st3=179

    JNC Computer Inc appears to be represented in Australia by:

    Friend Technology International Pty., Ltd.,
    17 Smallwood Street,
    Underwood QLD 4119

    Tel : 61 7 3423 2588 , 61 7 3423 2688
    Fax : 61 7 3423 2988

    See http://www.jnc.com.tw/company.htm.

    On the Net I found the following references:

    http://www.anscase.com/powersupply.htm
    http://www.anscase.com/psu-b400.htm

    http://www.telecommander.com/pics/links/powersupplies/l&c400wp4amdpsrt/l&c400wp4amdpsrt.htm

    http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/DevelopWithAMD/0,,30_2252_869_1039^4038,00.html

    These suggest that there is a genuine L&C LC-B400ATX PSU. Mine looks
    nothing like the ones pictured.

    L&C appear to be part of the Deer Group:
    http://www.deer-group.com/about.htm

    However, I don't know how L&C are related to JNC Computer Corp, if at
    all.

    Here is an interesting post from the Google archives:

    "Blowing up 100's of Power Supplies":
    http://groups-beta.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/msg/8e892d0c5d0bf0c4?dmode=source

    And one from a person in the USA who has a fake 300W L&C PSU with the
    same PCB as mine:
    http://groups-beta.google.com/group/sci.electronics.design/msg/ed2522e7b0007f8b?dmode=source



    - Franc Zabkar
     
  8. Franc Zabkar

    Franc Zabkar Guest


    - Franc Zabkar
     
  9. Phil Allison

    Phil Allison Guest

    "Franc Zabkar"
    "David, not to be confused with the other Davids."

    ** Thick as a fucking plank .....




    ............... Phil
     
  10. Craig Hart

    Craig Hart Guest

    The importer was Magnafield; they changed their name a couple of years back
    and I can't recal who they are now -- will post again if I think of it.

    They are/were at 37 catalina dve tullamarine vic.

    Craig
     
  11. Craig Hart

    Craig Hart Guest

    the company that took over magnafield is multi-e

    www.mtd.net.au

    magnafield's c-tick is/was N160, but of course after the takeover they would
    get a new number.
     
  12. Franc Zabkar

    Franc Zabkar Guest

    Thanks.

    My first impression of this company was bad. Their website wouldn't
    let me in without first enabling cookies - the home page was blank
    until I did so. None of their PSUs were identified by brand name, nor
    were there any specs. I suspect they may all be generics.
    If Magnafield really was the source of my fake 400W L&C PSU, then the
    following statement rings very hollow:

    http://www.synecticsolutions.com.au/ss_partners.html

    "Magnafield is a respected computer equipment importer distributor.
    They have been trading for many years now and have survived in the
    very competitive computing market by delivering excellent quality and
    stable products at competitive prices."

    After visiting my local computer store, I posted the following
    observations in another NG:

    =====================================================================
    My local computer shop has nothing but generic PSUs. I looked at a "TT
    400ATX" SMPS with *exactly* the same specs as mine, but in a different
    case. Peeking inside, I saw the same part number (EI-33ASG) on the
    main switching transformer. The circuit layout seemed the same,
    although the two FR302 diodes were replaced by a TO-220 package. The
    main filter caps looked about the same size as mine, but I couldn't be
    sure. The heatsinks looked slightly more substantial.

    If the "TT" PSU is indeed a 400W unit, then I'm left to wonder why it
    has the same transformers as my 180W unit, if indeed that is the case.

    Another clue as to the PSU's origin was a small code on the label.
    Mine has a "LC34XA" in the bottom RH corner, whereas the TT PSU had a
    "TTnnXA" (I can't recall the nn digits). I'm guessing this could be
    some kind of OEM ID.

    Here is a photo of my fake PSU:
    http://members.optusnet.com.au/~fzabkar/LC-B400ATX.jpg (361KB)
    =====================================================================

    BTW, the TT PSU had a different C-tick code. Sorry, I don't recall the
    number.


    - Franc Zabkar
     
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