Bypass motor on motor help

[bline22]

Thanks for the replies.

Did some testing and checking to see if i could see anything that might be obstructing the gears and I don't see anything. I tall looks good. if i open it up and turn the threaded shaft i don't notice anything out of the ordinary from one direction to another. It is not easy to move then then when I am working against the idle motor i would expect this.

@73 s de Edd. Should i use different wire to test with? I have a bunch of varying guage wire solid and stranded if would be better. Also, to measure the voltage I am still a bit confused. On my multimeter i am taking the red cable and moving it over to the other open slot on the multimeter that says 10A - "10A for 30 sec Max every 15 min". Also, on the multimeter what do i turn the dial to? From there what am i touching the red wire to and what am i touching the black wire to specifically to get you these measurements?

Is it possible to just replace the motor with a same brand or one similar perhaps? It feels to me like there is something going on with it is what your guys gut at this point is thinking too?

 

[Minder]

When you use the meter use the COM and 10a sockets for the leads and ensure you have the leads in SERIES with one of the conductors to the motor, never across the leads.
When the motor stalls It is expected the current to increase much more than the running current.
This test should indicate if it is a mechanical stall or the motor is defective if the current drops or shows zero instead of increasing.
Due to the mechanical constraints, the exact motor would probably be needed as it would be tricky to mount a different frame motor.
M.

 

[bline22]

That is what i wanted to make sure of but want to make sure I am understanding series too.

#41 top of board image. When you say in series if i place the red multimeter wire on to the red wire solder point in the image, follow that red wire and use the black multimeter wire touching some place along the same path as the red wire i will get what you are after and not cross the streams? I understand now what you are looking for to ID a mechanical issue. Do i have it right here? Also, does it matter if i test it on the red or brown wire?

 

[Minder]

Yes it is important to place the leads in series, IOW, the meter leads would replace one of the conductors from battery to motor, it does not matter which lead you use the meter in place of.

M.

 

[bline22]

OK it is getting clear.

So in your image and using the red wire for the example in the image. i would putting one of the multimeter wires on the ipod and the other to the battery right? Would i remove the red wire by disconnecting it too or can that stay?

 

[Minder]

As long as you have two conductors/paths from battery/DC source to motor, one of them being the meter leads as shown.
The meter is inserted in one of the conductor paths. i.e. nothing bypasses the meter.
M.

 

[bline22]

OK. To measure this will set the dial on the meter to 10A? What setting do i use if not?

 

[Minder]

If not?
If everything goes according to plan, you will see a reading when the motor is running normally, when it stops/stalls you will see either little or no current, if open, to a much higher one than when normal if mechanically stalled.
M.

 

[bline22]

sorry i meant if i do not use the 10A setting which one do i use?

 

[Minder]

Is there any particular reason for not using it?
If you want to measure any significant degree of current then that is your only choice, otherwise you would have to set up a series resistor and use a voltage scale!!
M

 

[73's de Edd]

Your blue and white solid wires are of adequate sizing for this motors current capacity needs.

ALSO . . .since the expected motor current pull is well down from the max spec . . . . more motor run time is being permissible



Try this illustration on for size . . . . .

 

[bline22]

@73's ed edd that picture helped out a lot and i understand better what the idea was here.

With snow and me traveling i just got back and gave your image a try but not using a battery and using the attached image. My dad had this and said i could use it. (he said it would mimic a car battery voltage) Will this work OK in place of the battery? If not, i will take the battery off the mower again. Had to put it on with all the snow lately. Wheni plugged it in, turned it on i did check the voltage and got about 13 volts so seemed good best i could tell.

With the attached image setup in place of the battery i tried 2 things.

The first was on the main board the motors were plugged in and when i attached everything like your image i could hear the other motor slighly pur just like when you plug the machine in. Also, when i touched the black wire from the multimeter to the board i did get a slight spark. I should have paid attention to the multimeter to see if it changed at all but I did not. Should i do this again and see if get any readings on the multimeter?

Second, same as above but without the motors attached. This time no spark and I did check the multimeter but no readings on it.

What do you think about the image and what i am using in place of the battery is this better or should i stick to the battery? Am i doing something wrong that I do not get a reading on the multimeter?

Thanks again for the help.

 

[73's de Edd]

It just might work . . . as it appears to be a 12VDC @ 10 amp power supply.
Its just a question of the start up current capability of the unit , as the motor pulls a bit of current on its initial start up from a stopped positon, amd then a progressive decline as motor speed picks up..
Give it a try.
And, yes, there will be a slight connectiing flash, as you connect in the very last connection of that shown wiring lash up.

 

[bline22]

So when I plug it in via the second method as the motor trys to start i get a reading up to about 3.8 on the multimeter down to a steady .1 or so. the only way i can get a reading on the multimeter too is to have the motor unit plugged into the main board as well it seems. If i don't have it plugged in to the main board i get nothing.

Also, on the back of this little box there looks to be a fuse that sames use 4 amp fuse.

 

[bline22]

Crazy that this motor will simply not run but only in an off chance.

One other thing perhaps that would help me here. Is there a way that i can easily make it so that i don't have to plug the wire in the image below in every time. I know i could cut that clip off and then splice the wires but then i would have to figure out how to get that black thing back on in the event i get this working. The wire is so short and would also help perhaps to rule this out even though I believe this is working without issue as i do have continuity.

 

[73's de Edd]

Sir bline22 . . . . . . .

You now show us a new connector plug [xx] poking out on your post # 75 picture.
Is that the connection that needs to be plugged in for the actuator units motor to able to even run ?.

If you look back to your post #15 picture, I can see that plug [xx]and its mate and then the wiring passes on up thru two cable ties and into the bottom one of the run limit switches . . .with another switch higher up and not visible.
Is there a possibility that in initial stages of testing, that you had this unit mounted up so that the screw could actuate those switches by its traverse, while RECENTLY you have had had the whole assembly just laying on the floor and no longer being physically coupled into that particular mechanics ?

If so, I think that some ohmming, in a non powered up state, will find that plug [xx] connectors mate, mounted on the framework, will reveal a shorted condition between its two connections , unless you play with one or both of possible combinations of the roller micro switches, which should open that short.

Thus making it logical that you have to have that particular plug[xx] connected to the main unit.
Or else, fool the system, by placing jumper wire clips across the exposed connections of the plug [xx]
The originating plug[xx] connections seem to be in series with the motors internal power wires.
Its BLACK one, to be specific.

The normal color coding would be for the RED wire of the motor rotor/brush connector to come out to the PCB
connector (seen in Post 71 picture ) and get soldered to the PCB foil . . . which is being done . . . and the other adjunct RED wire is being the RED wire that enters into the 4 wire harness that goes to the MAIN control electronics PCB, to otherwise be plugged in .
[As is a side by side like connector, being used for the OTHER actuators wiring harness]

If you will do a power down, ohmming out of motor wiring, I believe that you will find the origination of that plug[xx] is having its BLACK wire connected to the motors OTHER rotor/brush connection.
That then leaves the " bastard " BROWN [ Usually being color coded as BLACK ] wire to come down to the other foil PCB connector and solder onto it , which we see, with the other BLACK companion wire on that pad being the BLACK wire going into the 4 wire harness .

I was able to find some motor information, but with these units not exposing their threads, and having them hidden within telecsopic tubes.
It does relate to start up current in the initial quick 6 amp pull and then a settling down into a 2-4 amp pull while rotating, all being in relevance to the mechanical loading being imposed.

Also, on the back of this little box { TRIPP LITE } there looks to be a fuse that says use 4 amp fuse.

Seems like that is being a logical value fuse for the AC line fuse on dear ole dads power supply unit.


JAEGER / SKF Da-Da INFO:

http://www.skfelink.com/skfelink_pdf/6255_E-Actuator-Jaeger.pdf



73's de Edd

 

[bline22]

@73's de Edd thanks again for the assistance and the link.

Not sure how to quote your message to answer questions but you ask:
You now show us a new connector plug [xx] poking out on your post # 75 picture.
Is that the connection that needs to be plugged in for the actuator units motor to able to even run ?.

Yes that has to be plugged in and it is as you describe. I don't notice a short at all in there as if check for continuity and flip the switches accordingly it will show continuity when non switch and not when they are switched.

Is it possible during some of my testing this was unplugged and me not realizing it. You bet. Green as green can be so highly possible. Part of the reason I would like to leave it unplugged and bridge(is that the right verbiage) those 2 points so i don't have to remember to plug it in. Would be way more convenient too if i could do this as the thing is so short.

You Said:
If you will do a power down, ohmming out of motor wiring, I believe that you will find the origination of that plug[xx] is having its BLACK wire connected to the motors OTHER rotor/brush connection.
That then leaves the " bastard " BROWN [ Usually being color coded as BLACK ] wire to come down to the other foil PCB connector and solder onto it , which we see, with the other BLACK companion wire on that pad being the BLACK wire going into the 4 wire harness .

You are right on and all looks good here.

In that link is it possible to buy this thing from Jaeger as I would assume much cheaper? Or, to simply buy the motor do you think? As if i am understanding it seems that it is tuff to know about the auger piece of this.

I think my good ole dad's unit here is not going to work so going to get a battery from him over the holidays.