E
Eeyore
- Jan 1, 1970
- 0
John said:Guitar distortion seems to be another fringe thing.
No it's totally mainstream. You have it exactly the wrong way round.
Graham
John said:Guitar distortion seems to be another fringe thing.
Eeyore said:It's the norm.
Not if you are using push-pull, the even harmonics cancel, leaving the
odd-harmonics as with solid-state.
Eeyore said:Not even remotely.
The best output transformers are in Europe IMHO. Lundahl and Sowter
for example but hardly cheap. SS amps don't need output transformers.
Jon said:You can't... the components in a tube amp react completely different
than digital algorithms. Analog solid state tends to end up sounding
very harsh(because of the way they clip as I mentioned).
If you don't believe me go to your local music store and ask one of
the guys to show you how a real tube amp sounds. Compare it to a
solid state amp and then to a modeling amp. The tube amp wins in
sound quality.
~~~~~Supposedly there are many factors in tube amps that make them sound
better
Tim said:And plenty of bands that are all transistor.
John said:Of course. We are talking about the subjective opinions of people who
are probably drugged-out most of the time and hearing-impaired all of
the time. None of which involves electronic design.
John said:No, I want none of that.
Eeyore said:Not in a Vox AC30 it isn't, despite the name.
Eeyore said:No it's totally mainstream. You have it exactly the wrong way round.
Graham
Tim said:Actually I was thinking about you as I was dating my information, and
puffing off theory with little recent practical knowledge.
What _is_ current usage? (or do they let you into the recording
studios?)
I would assume that the Euro-pop bands are all over the DSP
stuff,
but I also assume that there's going to be more inertia among
'traditional' rock musicians.
I knew a guy (only 10-year old information!) who was in a Seattle
grunge-rock style band who used Great Big Tube Amplifiers along with a
volume control made out of the heating element from an oven. Basically
they treated the gain control on the amp as a "tone" control, then used
power attenuators before the speakers to fit the sound down to the size
of the hall.
But what gets used "normally", if you can pick just a few examples of
"normal"?
Jan said:For 'amplification' one would like as little distortion as possible.
For wave shaping, it is better done at lower power levels.
If you can specify the waveform (distortion type) you want,
then you can can make that either digitally or analog at a low
level, and then use a HiFi power amp.
At least you would have a decent amp
Jan said:Wrong type of distortion. Compare the transfer characteristics. Tubes produce more
even-order harmonic distortion, transistors odd. And odd order sounds horrible.
That just gives the 'fuzz box' sound.
GregS said:Guitars can be played with any kind of amp and don't necessarily
need to be driven into distortion. Thats determined by the artist.
GregS said:The type of speaker distortion is also part of the power output
stage.
Guy said:There is a group of people with special skills who can
make it so that the low level stage *does* have the
same "irregularities" as the power output stage.
They call us "Engineers"...
JosephKK said:I disagree, the speaker distortion is dominated by the speaker
characteristics.
John Larkin said:There have been some acoustic-based isolated power couplers, usually
solid-rod piezo things. Probably more efficient than a
tube-amp/speaker/microphone combo.
John
Tim said:That argument could easily be applied to building violins out of
plastic, or just using sampled violin sounds in a synthesizer instead of
a string orchestra.
Yet somehow, when I go to the symphony it's all flesh-and-blood people
playing wooden instruments.
Circa 1985 you couldn't build a solid state 'distorter' that would
satisfactorily replicate the sound of a tube amp.
You may be able to now,
but it takes a tremendous amount of work to
design. There's a lot of dynamic nonlinearities at work, in the tubes,
in the transformers and in the speakers. And it's not limited to the
audio path -- even the power supply sag modifies the sound ("adds
crunch", per the folks who study this).
Even today, if you want the genuine vacuum tube sound the easiest way by
far is to build a genuine vacuum tube amp.
There may be value in
learning all of the little details of an amp and replicating it (and,
AFAIK, it's done and marketed for high-end guitar amps) -- but there's
still a lot of value in making them the old way, as witnessed by all the
new vacuum tube guitar amps out there.
Tons.
So yea, for reproduction the "vacuum tube sound" probably makes no
sense.
But given that the distortion of the amplifier is an integral
part of rock & roll guitar, I think it'll be a while before vacuum tube
amps can really be replaced.
Jan said:Tim Wescott wrote
Maybe you have not noticed, but whole orchestras come out of the paper cone of your loudspeaker,
and the plastic membranes of your headphone.