Brinks Home Security and Vonage

[Hary Cody]

Since I use a cell phone for most of my phone calls, I would like to
disconnect my home phone. However, I have Brinks which requires a
phone connection for monitoring. I just got Vonage, and am attempting
to connect the Brinks box to it. They say it can't be done. That may
be, but I would like to test it myself. It appears they use an RJ31X
plug to tap into the phone system. I'm wondering if I can just get a
cable configured RJ11 to RJ31X and I'm good to go. If so I need the
pin configuration. I'm assuming it's just the first 2 wires ala
standard phone wire.

Am I wasting my time here, or am I the only one in this predictament?
Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[Jackcsg]

Yes, you'll be wasting your time. But feel free to confirm it. The solution
however....doesn't include Brinks.

Jack

 

[Hary Cody]

The solution (or at least what I plan to try) is to attach a standard
phone jack just past the Vonage box. I figured I would swap the Red
and Green with the Yellow and Black for the Phone Jacks. (After I
confirm this is what Brinks did at the Telco Box). Then wire the Red
and Green straight through on the line Brinks wired direct to the
Security Box, and the Red and Yellow as the RJ31X should be ok at the
security panel routing the yellow and black to the Grey and Brown or
T1 R1. I got this info in this newsgroup from a diagram. This
apparently keeps the line seizure in tact? Some folks mentioned it
will work, and I have a Brinks technician scheduled to call me today.
If I'm better off letting them do it fine, but I'd like to give it a
shot myself if what I'm talking about is correct.

I guess worst case is to get a second Vonage line. That wouldn't be a
big deal either. Still cheaper than my local telephone service comes
standard.

 

[A.J.]

What if the power goes out in your home ? No phone line ?

You can have the VONAGE box on a UPS, but what if the power goes out in the
area, meaning your network will be down then you still haven't got no phone
service.

 

[Hary Cody]

As you may notice from my original post, I said I use a cell phone for
the majority of my calls these days. The home phone line would be
long gone if not for the Brinks system. My contract expires this year
by the way.

 

[Hary Cody]

I unhooked the test line into my Telco box, and then plugged the box
from Vonage into a phone jack which made every phone in the house live
on the Vonage line. I then ran a test from my Brinks system and it
failed. I called Vonage and asked them to tweak a few things such as
packetization and they seemed to know what I was after. The
technician said to ask Brinks to change the baud rate to 9600. I
called Brinks and they said that this required a visit to the house.
They then said they didn't work with Broadband lines. I've been
looking around in newsgroups and forums and finding folks who said
they have it working. I also hear about folks who have it working
with ADT. I told Brinks I'll have to replace them if they can't
support me. The guy said I needed to call Customer Support for this.
I told him I didn't need to do anything but quit paying my bill. He
said that would result in a collection and bad credit for me. I told
him I had great credit and wasn't worried. The bottom line I guess is
I need to figure out a solution. My local phone service is over $40
per month. They don't offer any stepped down service just for the
alarm either.

 

[Jackcsg]

I guess I don't have to say anything, since I told you it wouldn't work.
This is the next phase in communication that the security industry as a
whole, is ill prepared for. There is only one manufacturer out there which
would allow you to keep your system, regardless of manufacturer, and
transmit TCP/IP signals across broadband to a Central Station. Do yourself a
favor, and don't make the same mistake twice. Choose the only "American"
Manufacturer that has been backward/forward compatible since it's inception
in 1979. Find a local DMP dealer, or let me know where your at and I'll get
a dealer to you. It's a simple choice.

Jack

I unhooked the test line into my Telco box, and then plugged the box
from Vonage into a phone jack which made every phone in the house live
on the Vonage line. I then ran a test from my Brinks system and it
failed. I called Vonage and asked them to tweak a few things such as
packetization and they seemed to know what I was after. The
technician said to ask Brinks to change the baud rate to 9600. I
called Brinks and they said that this required a visit to the house.
They then said they didn't work with Broadband lines. I've been
looking around in newsgroups and forums and finding folks who said
they have it working. I also hear about folks who have it working
with ADT. I told Brinks I'll have to replace them if they can't
support me. The guy said I needed to call Customer Support for this.
I told him I didn't need to do anything but quit paying my bill. He
said that would result in a collection and bad credit for me. I told
him I had great credit and wasn't worried. The bottom line I guess is
I need to figure out a solution. My local phone service is over $40
per month. They don't offer any stepped down service just for the
alarm either.



In that case no problem.

BTW, one of the things I really like about Vonage is their "dual ringing"
(or whatever they call it) feature. I programmed it so that all incoming
calls ring simultaneously on my VOIP line and my cell phone. When I step
away from my desk I just grab the cellular and that's my cordless phone. I
don't pay for incoming calls on the cellular so the only cost is the monthly
Vonage charge plus the 800 number service.


We have a land line (Verizon) for our home phone. I like having it as a
backup in case something goes awry with Vonage. At the moment I also have
several Verizon lines for business use but I plan to replace those with VOIP
in a year or so.

The cost of a T1 is coming down to where small businesses handle it. Once
that's in place I'll host my web servers in-house and split out a portion of
the BW for telephone service. Even with that Vonage will still hold the
attraction of being portable. We have a condo in Brazil and with Vonage I
can work there the same as at home in the States.

When you cancel Brinks they'll most likely leave the system in place, hoping
you'll eventually come back to them. However, there have been stories of
Brinks customers whose alarms were inoperable once they quit using the
Brinks service. The systems are almost invariably leased and their policy,
as I understand it is not to allow you to make use of the system unless you
renew the contract. From what many ex-Brinks clients have said, the
salesmen apparently neglect to mention this during the sales presentation.
Unfortunately, you can't service or program Brinks' proprietary systems
without their assistance.

Best of luck.

Alarm and Home Automation System FAQ
http://www.bass-home.com/faq/masterfaq/faq.htm

Regards,
Robert

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
2291 Pine View Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
941-925-9747 Fax
941-232-0791 Wireless
Nextel Private ID - 161*21755*1
http://www.bass-home.com
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>

[/QUOTE]

 

[Mark Leuck]

I guess I don't have to say anything, since I told you it wouldn't work.
This is the next phase in communication that the security industry as a
whole, is ill prepared for. There is only one manufacturer out there which
would allow you to keep your system, regardless of manufacturer, and
transmit TCP/IP signals across broadband to a Central Station. Do yourself a
favor, and don't make the same mistake twice. Choose the only "American"
Manufacturer that has been backward/forward compatible since it's inception
in 1979. Find a local DMP dealer, or let me know where your at and I'll get
a dealer to you. It's a simple choice.

Jack

You DO realize all the board components are made in Asia right? You should
to be more accurate say they are assembled in the USA

 

[Frank Olson]

to be more accurate say they are assembled in the USA

What?? Not Mexico??

 

[anomynous]

Did you check to make sure the connection to the alarm panel was live and that
line seizure wasn't reversed?


They won't make that change as it's incompatible with their receivers and it's
a dead give away that you may be planning to terminate service.


Solution was to FIRST determine if your alarm, which was designed to work on
POTS, would work on what YOU planned to change, not the other way around. What
you basically did was buy 12,500 gallons of Bio Diesel and you're now piss
because the car manufacture telling you the car runs on gasoline. Sure the
seller of your diesel fuel tells you it will work by changing some of the
engine parts, but the manufacture is saying "we don't do that". Don't go bad
mouthing the car manufacture, bad mouth the cheap idiot who bought the bio
diesel fuel to save a few pennies BEFORE checking to see if it can be used with
their car!

With the cost at the pumps these days, it's not pennies no more. Holy moly!

 

[Mark Leuck]

What?? Not Mexico??

DMP not Ademco

 

[Jackcsg]

yourself

You DO realize all the board components are made in Asia right? You should
to be more accurate say they are assembled in the USA

It's the end result that determines a products origin. I guess your confused
with Radionic's

 

[Mark Leuck]

It's the end result that determines a products origin. I guess your confused
with Radionic's

So as long as its ASSEMBLED in the USA then its okay right? It doesn't make
any difference if nothing else is just that they have to put it together
here?

 

[Jackcsg]

as

So as long as its ASSEMBLED in the USA then its okay right? It doesn't make
any difference if nothing else is just that they have to put it together
here?

Do I have to educate you on what qualifies to the Federal Government as a
Product that is qualified to have the "Made in USA" logo attached to it? DMP
is Manufactured, designed, and distributed from Springfield, Missouri.
That's in the US, in case you don't get out much. Mexico is that Country
just south of you, or south of Texas, if that helps.

 

[Jackcsg]

According to the Federal Trade Commission, "Made in USA" means that "all or
virtually all" the product has been made in America. That is, all significant
parts, processing and labor that go into the product must be of U.S. origin.


Products should not contain any - or only negligible - foreign content.

Rob-

That last line is incorrect. Engineering/Design, Manufacturing (assembly),
and point of distribution, play the main roles in what the FTC deems a US
made product. The product, being the end result, must be of US origin. A
processor chip, Made by Motorola in Singapore, is not the end product, but
can be designed to work in a circuit of a product assembled, and distributed
from a US based company, and can comply with the FTC requirements.
How do you feel about Pelco. They don't make chipsets, but they do assemble
cameras...

Jack

Jack

 

[Hary Cody]

Sorry to ruin all your fun comparing security systems to fuels, but I
called Brinks and they say they can install a filter and everything
should work. They will be down this week (free of charge). I'll post
the results here. Oh and by the way, I did research this before
buying the Vonage kit, but it if you search for Brinks / Vonage you'll
find pretty much nothing. Vonage offer a free refund if not satisfied
so I'm out nothing. I have digital cable with a cable modem so why
not give Broadband a shot. I rarely use my home phone anyway. I hope
the filter solves this, if not, Brinks say I can walk, which will
allow me to move to another Security provider.

 

[Jackcsg]

Best of Luck. Tell us how you make out.

Jack

Sorry to ruin all your fun comparing security systems to fuels, but I
called Brinks and they say they can install a filter and everything
should work. They will be down this week (free of charge). I'll post
the results here. Oh and by the way, I did research this before
buying the Vonage kit, but it if you search for Brinks / Vonage you'll
find pretty much nothing. Vonage offer a free refund if not satisfied
so I'm out nothing. I have digital cable with a cable modem so why
not give Broadband a shot. I rarely use my home phone anyway. I hope
the filter solves this, if not, Brinks say I can walk, which will
allow me to move to another Security provider.

[email protected] (AlarmReview) wrote in message

 

[Jackcsg]

Is that the way you read it? Maybe I missed something? It would still have
to properly labeled, and go through Customs. Good link though....

Jack

 

[Jackcsg]

This is a non tangible product item and is not factored into the finial
delivered product. FTC's rules only apply to the "finished" product.


This is the "component country of origin" rule. An item actually manufactured
in India must be labeled as India. The combined total of all foreign
components in a product must be negligible for the product to be listed as
"Made in USA",


FTC's rules require that a product must be assembled of non-usable components
in the USA for it to carry the "Assembled in the USA" label. Non usable parts
means a circuit board with no components, chips, gears, casings, etc. Anything
that by itself has no real function. So, a completely assembled panel made
overseas cannot bear the assembled in the USA label since the panel is
functional. If that panel was shipped from overseas without any chips
installed and without any terminals, it can carry the "Assembled in the USA"
label once those chips and terminals are installed. One important note, all
items carrying the "Assembled in the USA" label are required to list the
substantial country(s) of origin.


Not covered by FTC's "USA Labeling Guidelines"


That's the part that throws everyone. The FTC's guides are very weird as to
individual parts. Somewhere I remember reading that the FTC states that no
more than 49% of a product can be of foreign manufacture. That seemed to
conflict with the negligible rules, but it was explained that the individual
parts that make of a finial product are divided into two categories. The
functional parts (chips, transistors, gears, etc) and assembly parts (screws,
wire, brackets, etc). So no more than 49% of the assembly parts and only a
negligible amount of functional parts are what applies. I guess it's all about
what you call those chips.

Jack, there are regional FTC offices that can help you determine where a
product falls. I know we have them down south because of the number of
cross-border manufacturing plants. You may have one in your area and they can
tell you what label is accurate.

FYI, did you hear the flack about Ford and Law Enforcement? Many weren't aware
that the Ford Crown Victoria is a foreign car, not made or assembled in the
USA. Ford was playing on peoples "Brand Name" association with American made
products. Some police departments are demanding Ford take back those cars and
refund their money. I did some checking and it turned out that less than 50%
of all Ford's passenger cars are made in the USA.

Rob-

It's all interesting. I'm still trying to figure out where this going. I
simply made the statement that two Manufacturers actually make a US (Truly
Stampable) product. If the point is that someone disagrees with that
statement, then I guess I can see where we're heading. I'm not truly
familiar with Caddx, and their process, but I am familiar with DMP's. I'm
also aware of the Buy American Act, and a situation which happened with
Radionic's (Bosch) over making false statements. I'm equally mystified how
Ademco achieved a GSA schedule in conjunction with the act, although not
completely surprised. Do as I say, not as I do....

Jack

 

[Jackcsg]

Just curious. How does placing a DSL filter on a cable modem enhance a DTMF
tone for VoIP? The filter eliminates cross-talk between analog and digital
signals. A cable modem is not capable of producing an analog phone line. The
problem is the VoIP packets can not decipher forth column DTMF (or FSK)
tones at 110 to 300 baud. The format is too low for compression. Fax
machines use FSK at 9600 to 14,400 baud, which is the frequency range in
which is accommodated, or built in into the compression agent.
I tried this on a satellite phone in Wyoming. The end result was as I
stated. Sometimes it worked, mostly it didn't. I was unable to try DMP's
format, do to a Central Station Limitation, but neither Radionic's or CID
would work. It's like finding a Modem where the BELL 103 format actually
worked as stated...0-300 baud. Remember those days?
There's two problems that are not allowing alarm panels to just dial over
VoIP. First is the slow speed of the FSK, and second is the format. Only a
panel which can communicate true FSK at speeds between 9600-14,400 will work
successfully. Which again...I only know of one Manufacturer that can do
that.....

Jack