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Best heat sink compound?

R

Roger Hamlett

Jan 1, 1970
0
Daniel L. Belton said:
Never had that problem here using it for more than 4 years on several
hundred CPU's and chipsets
The problem is not with the paste, but with people applying it...
I had one guy, who was having problems with his machine. Knowing he had just
upgraded the processor, I asked what he had used for the thermal contact. He
assured me it was fine, with 'plenty of grease'. Inspection showed that he
had used perhaps 1/3rd of a tube, on one processor!.
Applied in a very thin layer, it works well, but the paste is so thin, that
if there is even a small amount of surplus, it may well migrate to places
which cause problems.

Best Wishes
 
F

Floyd Davidson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Daniel L. Belton said:
ok... on a PIII rated at 133 mhz FSB, I can run it at a 168 mhz
FSB with Arctic Silver... With the white silicone, I can get no
more than 147 mhz...

So it actually doesn't make any difference... or at least any
significant difference.
 
D

Daniel L. Belton

Jan 1, 1970
0
Roger said:
The problem is not with the paste, but with people applying it...
I had one guy, who was having problems with his machine. Knowing he had just
upgraded the processor, I asked what he had used for the thermal contact. He
assured me it was fine, with 'plenty of grease'. Inspection showed that he
had used perhaps 1/3rd of a tube, on one processor!.
Applied in a very thin layer, it works well, but the paste is so thin, that
if there is even a small amount of surplus, it may well migrate to places
which cause problems.

Best Wishes

Yikes! 1/3 of a tube? that's about.... ohhhh... 20 times more than
nedded... hehehe

You are correct that it must be applied very sparingly, but the same is
true of any compound. Even the white goop run all over the place if you
put 20 times too much on it.... and I wonder what would happen if 20 of
those thermal pads were used... :)
 
R

Roger Hamlett

Jan 1, 1970
0
Daniel L. Belton said:
Yikes! 1/3 of a tube? that's about.... ohhhh... 20 times more than
nedded... hehehe

You are correct that it must be applied very sparingly, but the same is
true of any compound. Even the white goop run all over the place if you
put 20 times too much on it.... and I wonder what would happen if 20 of
those thermal pads were used... :)
I ended up washing the entire chip three times in isopropyl alcohol. Artic
silver, does seem to be slightly 'worse' than normal compounds for
migration, so the need to be 'sparing' is even more than normal.
Unfortunately, a lot of the people installing heatsinks on processors, have
never done anything like this, and follow the 'more is better' school of goo
application...
Generally it is rare to see more than two thermal pads being tried!. The
reason is that people don't have spare ones, and end up just applying one
that came with the processor, and leaving the one that was allready on the
heatsink in place. Leaving the plastic 'tape' over the face of this one is
also quite common.

Best Wishes
 
D

Daniel L. Belton

Jan 1, 1970
0
Floyd said:
So it actually doesn't make any difference... or at least any
significant difference.

a 19 mhz difference isn't significant? on a pIII 1ghz cpu, that
translates into a 142.5 mhz gain...

that's over 10%, so it looks really significant to me.
 
D

DarkMatter

Jan 1, 1970
0
ok... on a PIII rated at 133 mhz FSB, I can run it at a 168 mhz FSB
with Arctic Silver... With the white silicone, I can get no more than
147 mhz...


seal the entire case up with silicone rubber RTV, and fill it with
chilled Fluorinert, a DuPont brand perfluorocarbon dielectric fluid.

You can go down to around 20 F below zero with that setup, and never
get condensation because all air, and water is displaced.

You could likely push your FSB up to around 3 to 5 hundred MHz with
it. Easily.

Cost: Around $480 a gallon. Must pressure seal the case as well,
or it will eventually evaporate. Need a couple gallons for a full
tower. Also needed2 would be the chiller equipment, and the pump
 
D

DarkMatter

Jan 1, 1970
0
The problem is not with the paste, but with people applying it...
I had one guy, who was having problems with his machine. Knowing he had just
upgraded the processor, I asked what he had used for the thermal contact. He
assured me it was fine, with 'plenty of grease'. Inspection showed that he
had used perhaps 1/3rd of a tube, on one processor!.
Applied in a very thin layer, it works well, but the paste is so thin, that
if there is even a small amount of surplus, it may well migrate to places
which cause problems.

Being a non-conductor, it is very unlikely that it could find
anywhere to migrate to that would cause an electrical "problem".

You may well be talking shit on that "point".

Now, that silver crap is conductive.

There are specific applications for each. The grease/cream is 100%
non-conductive. and requires an all but zero gap.

The silver filled media is also a direct mate interface material,
but can still pass heat well in tests where small gaps were
introduced, or the two surfaces were not coplanar.
 
D

DarkMatter

Jan 1, 1970
0
So it actually doesn't make any difference... or at least any
significant difference.

18 Mhz on the FSB does make for a gain, but it could very well have
been differences in mating efficiency that accounts for much of it.
 
D

DarkMatter

Jan 1, 1970
0
snip
Leaving the plastic 'tape' over the face of this one is
also quite common.


Not for anybody with a brain. Anyone that has been found to do this
should be stripped of their privileges to use a computer, and their
drivers license as well.

If they're *that* stupid, they shouldn't be inside a PC's case, or
behind the wheel of a car.
 
C

cornytheclown

Jan 1, 1970
0
Guy Macon said:
I would find it easier to believe that it was overhyped crap if
I wasn't typing this on a quad processor Compaq Proliant that
has the CPUs runnin 10 degrees C cooler since I replaced the
OEM heat sink compound.


OEM installations are probably done under greater stress and are
therefore going to consist of shoddy skills. I pulled my old computer
apart in search of salvageable surface mount components and board
hardware and the heatsink grease from the processor must have been
applied with a mop as there was a streak of that leaked several inches
from the cpu where it had been applied in a giant glob. Too much is
just as bad as not enough.......I dont think you will see a noticebale
difference between brands when applied in a like manner.
 
F

Floyd Davidson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Daniel L. Belton said:
a 19 mhz difference isn't significant? on a pIII 1ghz cpu, that
translates into a 142.5 mhz gain...

that's over 10%, so it looks really significant to me.

Wow, I bet your editor just screams! ;-)

Hey, lets be honest. It is *fun* to do, but it doesn't make
a significant difference (other than in how fast your heart
beats as you test it again).

A 50% speed increase is almost significant. A 100% increase is
worth at least a little effort, but not much. Speed increases
are only worth spending money on if you get something more than
a 2x increase.

A 10% increase is not noticable to users, and requires
sophisticated equipment to even verify.

But most of all, every 18 months there is another cpu available
at twice the speed...
 
D

DarkMatter

Jan 1, 1970
0
snipped previous

Floyd Davidson wrote:

a 19 mhz difference isn't significant? on a pIII 1ghz cpu, that
translates into a 142.5 mhz gain...

that's over 10%, so it looks really significant to me.


What are the bench numbers though?

Or better yet... how many seti units per day can it do?

I have one here that does 17 a day, WHILE I still use the machine or
whatever I wish. Dual CPU.

Seti performance is largely regarded as a very good perf bench, as
there are 4.8 million users, and many of those quite prestigious
firms. The per unit time is a very good indicator of you machine,
regardless of what a math bench or other aggregate bench "tells" you.


I have nearly 14k units done, placing me in the 99.81 percentile.
That puts 91,430 people or groups in front of me.

Still, not bad out of 477780001 users, most of which have only done
one unit and quit... wussies. My seti operations have never slowed my
machine. I do turn it off when I burn discs at fast rates to minimize
the chance of a failed burn.

Anyway... good bench to try and report on.
 
D

Daniel L. Belton

Jan 1, 1970
0
DarkMatter said:
seal the entire case up with silicone rubber RTV, and fill it with
chilled Fluorinert, a DuPont brand perfluorocarbon dielectric fluid.

You can go down to around 20 F below zero with that setup, and never
get condensation because all air, and water is displaced.

You could likely push your FSB up to around 3 to 5 hundred MHz with
it. Easily.

Cost: Around $480 a gallon. Must pressure seal the case as well,
or it will eventually evaporate. Need a couple gallons for a full
tower. Also needed2 would be the chiller equipment, and the pump

Yes, and the cost per Mhz gain would be much higher than the cost per
Mhz gain for a tube of arctic silver :)
 
D

Daniel L. Belton

Jan 1, 1970
0
DarkMatter said:
snip





Not for anybody with a brain. Anyone that has been found to do this
should be stripped of their privileges to use a computer, and their
drivers license as well.

If they're *that* stupid, they shouldn't be inside a PC's case, or
behind the wheel of a car.

I will agree 100% with that! but unfortunently, there are people out
there that do those things...
 
D

Daniel L. Belton

Jan 1, 1970
0
Floyd said:
Wow, I bet your editor just screams! ;-)

Hey, lets be honest. It is *fun* to do, but it doesn't make
a significant difference (other than in how fast your heart
beats as you test it again).

A 50% speed increase is almost significant. A 100% increase is
worth at least a little effort, but not much. Speed increases
are only worth spending money on if you get something more than
a 2x increase.

A 10% increase is not noticable to users, and requires
sophisticated equipment to even verify.

But most of all, every 18 months there is another cpu available
at twice the speed...

You are correct... there is not nearly as noticable gain from
overclocking a system as there was just a few years ago. It is still
fun to try and tweak a few mhz out of it....
 
D

DarkMatter

Jan 1, 1970
0
Yes, and the cost per Mhz gain would be much higher than the cost per
Mhz gain for a tube of arctic silver :)


So what? Cost was never the question when OCing was mentioned.

It isn't much different than those machine wars.

My screamin' box would outperform all. That holds value with most
OCers.
 
R

Roger Hamlett

Jan 1, 1970
0
No. Be gentle. Just make it a capital offence... :)
I will agree 100% with that! but unfortunently, there are people out
there that do those things...
Yes. Levels of incompetence, are things that have to be seen to be believed
at times...

Best Wishes
 
R

Roger Hamlett

Jan 1, 1970
0
DarkMatter said:
Being a non-conductor, it is very unlikely that it could find
anywhere to migrate to that would cause an electrical "problem".

You may well be talking shit on that "point".

Now, that silver crap is conductive.
Since it was the _silver_ paste that I was talking about, if you actually
read the post, I think you are the one talking c*&%...
There are specific applications for each. The grease/cream is 100%
non-conductive. and requires an all but zero gap.
The grease/cream, is not '100% non-conductive'. There is no such thing. It
is a fairly good insulator, but not perfect...
The silver filled media is also a direct mate interface material,
but can still pass heat well in tests where small gaps were
introduced, or the two surfaces were not coplanar.

Best Wishes
 
D

DarkMatter

Jan 1, 1970
0
The grease/cream, is not '100% non-conductive'. There is no such thing. It
is a fairly good insulator, but not perfect...

Now you are just being a fucking retard.

Ever heard the expression for all intents and purposes?

We use the same grease to grease down the ten inch stinger that goes
into a 50kV HV connector. The shit is non-conductive, you retarded
prude.
 
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