Connect with us

Best for battery to let DECT handset run down?

Discussion in 'Electronic Components' started by Alex Coleman, Aug 7, 2007.

Scroll to continue with content
  1. Alex Coleman

    Alex Coleman Guest

    Am in the UK and have a DECT handset containing two AAA NiMH cells.

    The manufacturer says it is alright to indefinitely leave the handset
    in the charging cradle. Maybe the charging is done so gently that it
    is ok.

    However the cells last for several hours talktime so they will never
    properly run down before being put back on charge.

    This means the recommended first few charge-discharge cycles will
    never occur

    Is a charging regime where the handsets are always replaced back on
    charge likely to noticeably reduce available battery capacity?

    How about this? -- Is it worth leaving off the charging cradles the
    DECT handsets for a several days in order to have them run down on
    their own and then putting them into their charging cradles? ISTR
    that NiCds tended to like this sort of regime.










    --

    xposted (4 relevant gps)
    uk.telecom
    alt.engineering.electrical
    sci.electronics.components
    sci.electronics.design
     
  2. Run till they're flat, but don't leave them that way, charge as soon as
    they are. You only need let them go all the way once a month or so. Similar
    advice is given for electric toothbrushes which also use NiMH.
     
  3. Palindrome

    Palindrome Guest

    NiMH cells do not have the memory effect that you are thinking of.

    The worst thing to do to most batteries is to let them run down and then
    leave them in that state, eg by forgetting to put them back on charge.

    The charger is charging them at a very low rate that can be sustained
    indefinately. That's why the things take so long to charge initially..

    Leave them on the charger.
     
  4. GregS

    GregS Guest

    My advice on constant charging, if the battery gets very warm, your in for
    trouble.

    Cycling is often recommended for NiMH, but don't really know if it helps.

    greg
     
  5. Dave Platt

    Dave Platt Guest

    My advice on constant charging, if the battery gets very warm, your in for
    trouble.

    Cycling is often recommended for NiMH, but don't really know if it helps.[/QUOTE]

    There's some interesting and useful information available at Harding
    Energy's web site - see http://www.hardingenergy.com/pdfs/NiMH.pdf
    for one thing.

    What I take away from this document (and from an old GE book on NiCd
    battery chemistry) is:

    - Over-discharging either type of battery is Bad. Don't run them
    down to below 1.0 volts per cell. Doing so can result in permanent
    loss of capacity in NiMH, and to internal shorts in NiCd. By the
    time voltage drops to 1.0 volts per cell you've gotten out about
    99% of the charge.

    - Excessive overcharging is also bad. NiCd is usually able to tolerate
    long-term overcharging at a rate of 0.1C indefinitely. NiMH is
    less tolerant to overcharge, and any long-term maintenance charge
    should be limited to C/128 or so (less than 0.01C). Higher
    overcharge rates can result in temporary or permanent loss of
    capacity.

    - NiCd cells subjected to long-term overcharging may suffer from
    "voltage depression" - higher internal resistance, which causes the
    output voltage to start dropping under load when there's still
    quite a bit of charge left in the battery. This can mimic the
    true "memory effect", which actually has a different cause and
    is rather uncommon in practice. Both the true memory effect, and
    voltage depression, can be reversed by discharging the cell to 1.0
    volts at a low discharge rate, and then recharging at 0.1C for 20
    hours.

    - Because NiMH is less tolerant of overcharge, the charging circuitry
    needs to be somewhat more sophisticated than is true of NiCd
    chargers, if best results are to be achieved.

    - Both battery chemistries heat up during overcharge... much more
    than they do when they're actually accepting useful charge. Good
    chargers detect the heat (either directly, or by a resulting
    decrease in the cell voltage) and shut down the charging cycle.
    Bad chargers cook the batteries.

    - Both battery chemistries self-discharge over time... NiMH usually
    quite a bit faster.

    - Either type can be stored at any level of charge without affecting
    long-term capacity or reliability... it doesn't matter if they
    self-discharge all the way to zero.

    - However, if you let a NiMH self-discharge all the way to zero, it
    will temporarily lose some of its storage capacity - it'll only
    give you about 95% on the first recharge/use cycle. Subsequent
    recharge cycles will restore it to full capacity.

    To go back to the original poster's question... I'd agree with the
    advice to simply leave the phone on the charger at all times, if that
    is what the manufacturer has recommended. A modern device designed
    for NiMH batteries will have a proper charge-control chip built in,
    and this should be bringing the battery up to a state of full charge
    (but not overcharging it) and then applying a proper maintenance
    charge to keep it "topped up".

    For a NiNH battery, this seems to be the best strategy for maintaining
    maximum useful charge in the battery.

    Cycling NiMH batteries (discharging and recharging) seems to be
    beneficial mostly for batteries which are _not_ being recharged
    frequently, but which are being allowed to self-discharge in storage.
     
  6. Ivor Jones

    Ivor Jones Guest

  7. Alex Coleman

    Alex Coleman Guest

    Thank you for the info in the posting and for the PDF reference.
     
  8. Guest

    Neither do NiCd cells! :)

    The 'memory effect' only occurs in NiCd cells which are discharged and
    recharged on a *very* regular cycle. It occurred (and was discovered
    on) a satellite where the discharge/recharge was as regular as the
    satellite going round the earth and getting recharged by solar cells.

    What kills NiCd cells (and then 'memory effect' gets blamed) is
    overcharging them and/or reverse charging them.

    I'm not sure that either NiCd or NiMh actually suffer all that badly
    from being left discharged but I'm not totally sure about that.
    Now that bit is OK enough!
     
  9. Chris Jones

    Chris Jones Guest


    If you discharge a battery composed of several cells until it is very very
    flat, then there is a good chance that some of the cells have slightly more
    capacity than one weaker cell, and the weaker cell will get reverse
    charged, which tends to damage it and make it weaker still. If you do it
    repeatedly then it could presumably kill that cell.

    I would recommend against completely flattening a multi-cell battery unless
    you know that you can stop the discharging before any cell gets reverse
    charged. If there are N cells, then one method would be to stop when the
    voltage gets down to N-1 times the voltage of one fairly discharged cell.

    Anyway in the long term in most applications it is probably better to have a
    battery that has memory effect which is curable, rather than a battery with
    some cells permanently damaged by reverse charging.

    Chris
     
Ask a Question
Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?
You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments (here). After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.
Electronics Point Logo
Continue to site
Quote of the day

-