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Best Compact Fluorescents

K

Kevin Bowling

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hello,

I would greatly appreciate your opinion on the best current compact
fluorescent bulbs. I am having a difficult time finding what I need.
My current CFLs are on their last whims of life and I want to get the
best of the best this time around. I need an electronic ballast built
in, with good color temperature and brightness. The faster they warm up
the better. I will be using them in overhead ceiling fan lights with
two and four sockets. I'd prefer globes, but it is not strictly
necessary. So far searching I have found the Phillips GenIV, but would
like others' opinions. Please post a link to a retailer online as well,
my local hardware stores have a terrible selection.

Regards,
Kevin
 
T

TKM

Jan 1, 1970
0
Kevin Bowling said:
Hello,

I would greatly appreciate your opinion on the best current compact
fluorescent bulbs. I am having a difficult time finding what I need. My
current CFLs are on their last whims of life and I want to get the best of
the best this time around. I need an electronic ballast built in, with
good color temperature and brightness. The faster they warm up the
better. I will be using them in overhead ceiling fan lights with two and
four sockets. I'd prefer globes, but it is not strictly necessary. So
far searching I have found the Phillips GenIV, but would like others'
opinions. Please post a link to a retailer online as well, my local
hardware stores have a terrible selection.

Regards,
Kevin

Quality of a particular CFL can vary with every lamp that comes off the
line. Some companies certainly pay more attention to quality than others;
but how do you know which ones? The Lighting Research Center and Consumers
Union have tested CFLs from time-to-time, but the results among brands or
types within a brand are not consistent.

So far, the only published, consistent quality/performance standards are
those developed by EPA/ Energy Star. You can read them yourself on the
Energy Star site at: http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=cfls.pr_cfls
They involve life, light output, color, starting, and depreciation. So, the
simple answer is to buy Energy Star labeled products.

No doubt you can buy premium or new technology CFLs that may or may not
perform better than others; but then you are depending upon the word and
product service practices of the manufacturer. Anecdotes from those like
myself who try different brands, take them apart and pay attention to
manufacturer claims are interesting; but can't be representative of what you
might buy because, to take just one example, by the time I might comment on
the life performance of a CFL, many thousands of hours may have elapsed and
the manufacturer may have changed the design or even disappeared.

I've not seen any CFLs on the market which are consistently and
substantially better than others, but others will likely have their own
opinions about that.

Terry McGowan
 
K

Kevin Bowling

Jan 1, 1970
0
TKM said:
Quality of a particular CFL can vary with every lamp that comes off the
line. Some companies certainly pay more attention to quality than others;
but how do you know which ones? The Lighting Research Center and Consumers
Union have tested CFLs from time-to-time, but the results among brands or
types within a brand are not consistent.

So far, the only published, consistent quality/performance standards are
those developed by EPA/ Energy Star. You can read them yourself on the
Energy Star site at: http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=cfls.pr_cfls
They involve life, light output, color, starting, and depreciation. So, the
simple answer is to buy Energy Star labeled products.

No doubt you can buy premium or new technology CFLs that may or may not
perform better than others; but then you are depending upon the word and
product service practices of the manufacturer. Anecdotes from those like
myself who try different brands, take them apart and pay attention to
manufacturer claims are interesting; but can't be representative of what you
might buy because, to take just one example, by the time I might comment on
the life performance of a CFL, many thousands of hours may have elapsed and
the manufacturer may have changed the design or even disappeared.

I've not seen any CFLs on the market which are consistently and
substantially better than others, but others will likely have their own
opinions about that.

Terry McGowan
I understand these considerations but I really want to move along as
I need to replace the bulbs ASAP. What I am asking for is a good model
for home/home office use in overhead ceiling fans. If some fail, or
what ever else, that is fine. Specifics and price don't matter but
decent luminosity, color temp. and a quickly starting electronic ballast
would be ideal. I need a link to a retailer with the aforementioned as
well.
Regards,
Kevin
 
Z

Zak

Jan 1, 1970
0
Kevin said:
Hello,

I would greatly appreciate your opinion on the best current compact
fluorescent bulbs. I am having a difficult time finding what I need. My
current CFLs are on their last whims of life and I want to get the best
of the best this time around. I need an electronic ballast built in,
with good color temperature and brightness. The faster they warm up the
better. I will be using them in overhead ceiling fan lights with two
and four sockets. I'd prefer globes, but it is not strictly necessary.
So far searching I have found the Phillips GenIV, but would like others'
opinions. Please post a link to a retailer online as well, my local
hardware stores have a terrible selection.

In my experience (230 volts!) Philips Genie is not bad, but I prefer the
10.000 hour Osram Longlifes (made in Germany). More expensive though.

The 6000 hour Osram (made in China) that I have is not so good; I prefer
the Philips Genie instead (also made in China, but starts immediately
and light color is nicer IMO).

My first CFLs were electronic Osrams. One is dead; the other still
works. They are big, and the tube has come loose on the survivor.



Thomas
 
C

Clive Mitchell

Jan 1, 1970
0
Zak said:
My first CFLs were electronic Osrams. One is dead; the other still
works. They are big, and the tube has come loose on the survivor.

Not the big chunky Circolux type things by any chance?
 
R

Robbie McFerren

Jan 1, 1970
0
Kevin said:
Hello,

I would greatly appreciate your opinion on the best current compact
fluorescent bulbs. I am having a difficult time finding what I need. My
current CFLs are on their last whims of life and I want to get the best
of the best this time around. I need an electronic ballast built in,
with good color temperature and brightness. The faster they warm up the
better. I will be using them in overhead ceiling fan lights with two
and four sockets. I'd prefer globes, but it is not strictly necessary.
So far searching I have found the Phillips GenIV, but would like others'
opinions. Please post a link to a retailer online as well, my local
hardware stores have a terrible selection.

Regards,
Kevin
The best bulb for a ceiling fan is a ceiling fan (rebranded appliance)
incandescent bulb. General Electric recommends against the use of CFLs
in ceiling fans.
 
K

Kevin Bowling

Jan 1, 1970
0
Robbie said:
The best bulb for a ceiling fan is a ceiling fan (rebranded appliance)
incandescent bulb. General Electric recommends against the use of CFLs
in ceiling fans.

I had no real problems with inexpensive Commercial Electric 14W CFLs
in the fan. The only thing wrong with these bulbs was the long start
time, and they are now dim from age. I'm not sure why GE would
recommend against, but I need CFLs because normal bulbs produce way to
much heat. I'd really like someone to hint at my original questions,
otherwise I'll pull the trigger on the GenIVs and let you folks know how
it goes.
Kevin
 
V

Victor Roberts

Jan 1, 1970
0
I've not seen any CFLs on the market which are consistently and
substantially better than others, but others will likely have their own
opinions about that.

Terry - I agree. One problem is that many companies are
sourcing product from numerous small vendors. While they
try to exercise quality control, it does this produce the
same consistent results that they obtain when they build
products they design in factories that they control. So,
one brand is not consistently better than others.

While gets us to problem #2. Some specific models have a
very good history, but manufactures can and do change the
design of even source of manufacturer without changing the
model number.

The best indicator I have is rated life. Usually CFLs with a
12,000 hour or longer rated life are superior to those rated
for 6000 hours, as should be obvious. As long as consumers
care more about low price than high quality and "life-cycle
value" this problem will continue.

--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
To reply via e-mail:
replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.

This information is provided for educational purposes only.
It may not be used in any publication or posted on any Web
site without written permission.
 
T

TKM

Jan 1, 1970
0
Kevin Bowling said:
I had no real problems with inexpensive Commercial Electric 14W CFLs in
the fan. The only thing wrong with these bulbs was the long start time,
and they are now dim from age. I'm not sure why GE would recommend
against, but I need CFLs because normal bulbs produce way to much heat.
I'd really like someone to hint at my original questions, otherwise I'll
pull the trigger on the GenIVs and let you folks know how it goes.
Kevin

It seems like you have your answer -- no one is comfortable strongly
recommending a brand/type because we see too much variability in the market.
I'll repeat that your chances of getting a good product from the overall
performance standpoint is to go with one that also has the Energy Star logo.
Vic's point about going with a CFL with longer rated life is good too.

Terry McGowan
 
Z

Zak

Jan 1, 1970
0
Clive said:
Not the big chunky Circolux type things by any chance?

No, it was all fairly chunky, but it was a model with 3 U tubes welded
together.


Thomas
 
K

Kevin Bowling

Jan 1, 1970
0
TKM said:
It seems like you have your answer -- no one is comfortable strongly
recommending a brand/type because we see too much variability in the market.
I'll repeat that your chances of getting a good product from the overall
performance standpoint is to go with one that also has the Energy Star logo.
Vic's point about going with a CFL with longer rated life is good too.

Terry McGowan
The Panasonic GenIVs are Energy Star rated. I placed the order last
night. I will update the thread when they arrive.
Kevin
 
V

Victor Roberts

Jan 1, 1970
0
It seems like you have your answer -- no one is comfortable strongly
recommending a brand/type because we see too much variability in the market.
I'll repeat that your chances of getting a good product from the overall
performance standpoint is to go with one that also has the Energy Star logo.
Vic's point about going with a CFL with longer rated life is good too.

Sorry Terry - I forgot to point out that I also agree with
using only Energy Star listed products.

--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
To reply via e-mail:
replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.

This information is provided for educational purposes only.
It may not be used in any publication or posted on any Web
site without written permission.
 
V

Victor Roberts

Jan 1, 1970
0
Kevin Bowling said:
Robbie McFerren wrote: [snip]
The best bulb for a ceiling fan is a ceiling fan (rebranded appliance)
incandescent bulb. General Electric recommends against the use of CFLs
in ceiling fans.
[snip]

I'm not sure why GE would
recommend against, but I need CFLs because normal bulbs produce way to
much heat.

I thought of replacing all the 60W incandescents on my mother's 3 ceiling
fans. The problem is the housing glass which is too narrow and doesn't allow
CFL's to screw in unless it's removed.

The incandescents do generate a lot of heat. That's 4x60W's there for each
fan and my mother still complains that there's not enough light.

I don't know why GE would recommend against CFL's in a ceiling fan, either.
Note however that when the fan is on full power, this creates a pretty
strong air current downwards that might affect the wall temperature of the
underlying CFL's, with perhaps adverse effects on lamp life.

At the least the air current will reduce efficacy and move
the color away from the blackbody.

--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
To reply via e-mail:
replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.

This information is provided for educational purposes only.
It may not be used in any publication or posted on any Web
site without written permission.
 
J

Jeff Waymouth

Jan 1, 1970
0
Not speaking for my loyal competitor, but thinking off the top of my
head, might it be due to the vibration one experiences in a ceiling fan?
I know when I was a field engineer and had responsibility for knowledge
of all product lines, we recommended vibration service for incandescent
lamps in this application.

Jeff Waymouth


Victor said:
Robbie McFerren wrote:
[snip]


The best bulb for a ceiling fan is a ceiling fan (rebranded appliance)
incandescent bulb. General Electric recommends against the use of CFLs
in ceiling fans.
[snip]


I'm not sure why GE would
recommend against, but I need CFLs because normal bulbs produce way to
much heat.

I thought of replacing all the 60W incandescents on my mother's 3 ceiling
fans. The problem is the housing glass which is too narrow and doesn't allow
CFL's to screw in unless it's removed.

The incandescents do generate a lot of heat. That's 4x60W's there for each
fan and my mother still complains that there's not enough light.

I don't know why GE would recommend against CFL's in a ceiling fan, either.
Note however that when the fan is on full power, this creates a pretty
strong air current downwards that might affect the wall temperature of the
underlying CFL's, with perhaps adverse effects on lamp life.


At the least the air current will reduce efficacy and move
the color away from the blackbody.
 
R

Robbie McFerren

Jan 1, 1970
0
<server required snip>
Yes, that is why General Electric Recommends against this. I thought I
mentioned it on the first post.
 
V

Victor Roberts

Jan 1, 1970
0
Not speaking for my loyal competitor, but thinking off the top of my
head, might it be due to the vibration one experiences in a ceiling fan?
I know when I was a field engineer and had responsibility for knowledge
of all product lines, we recommended vibration service for incandescent
lamps in this application.

The electrodes of CFLs are so short that I thought they
would not be damaged by the vibration of a fan - but perhaps
I'm wrong.

--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
To reply via e-mail:
replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.

This information is provided for educational purposes only.
It may not be used in any publication or posted on any Web
site without written permission.
 
C

Clive Mitchell

Jan 1, 1970
0
Victor Roberts said:
The electrodes of CFLs are so short that I thought they would not be
damaged by the vibration of a fan - but perhaps I'm wrong.

I put some slim CFL's in the glass bell style lights on my parents fan
because it is quite high. They have lasted for many years so far and
look like illuminated stamens coming out the ends of glass flowers.
 
T

TKM

Jan 1, 1970
0
Clive Mitchell said:
I put some slim CFL's in the glass bell style lights on my parents fan
because it is quite high. They have lasted for many years so far and look
like illuminated stamens coming out the ends of glass flowers.

The 2005 US EPAC legislation requires ceiling fan manufacturers to pack CFLs
with their fan products beginning 1/1/07. Both pin base and screw-base self
ballasted CFLs are allowed. I hope that GE takes another look and figures
out how to qualify their CFLs for use with fans.

It's hard to see how fan vibration would harm the bulb part of the lamp --
vibrating cathodes or stress on the glass don't seem likely; but I wonder
about vibration of the electronic circuit parts. From a temperature
standpoint, an air flow should help the lamp operate close to optimum and
increase the life of the electronics. If the lamp is too cool, the worse
that happens is that the light output goes down and the color may shift.
There's no effect on lamp life.

Terry McGowan
 
K

Kevin Bowling

Jan 1, 1970
0
TKM said:
The 2005 US EPAC legislation requires ceiling fan manufacturers to pack CFLs
with their fan products beginning 1/1/07. Both pin base and screw-base self
ballasted CFLs are allowed. I hope that GE takes another look and figures
out how to qualify their CFLs for use with fans.

It's hard to see how fan vibration would harm the bulb part of the lamp --
vibrating cathodes or stress on the glass don't seem likely; but I wonder
about vibration of the electronic circuit parts. From a temperature
standpoint, an air flow should help the lamp operate close to optimum and
increase the life of the electronics. If the lamp is too cool, the worse
that happens is that the light output goes down and the color may shift.
There's no effect on lamp life.

Terry McGowan
Nice piece of information. I agree with you here too. I fail to see
how a fan can significantly affect the life of a CFL, as I have been
doing it for a while.
Kevin
 
K

Kevin Bowling

Jan 1, 1970
0
Kevin said:
The Panasonic GenIVs are Energy Star rated. I placed the order last
night. I will update the thread when they arrive.
Kevin

All I can say is WOW! These bulbs are just what I was looking for. I
can now actually read in my room since I got 75w equivalents. They come
on to full brightness within 5 seconds. These are incredible, just what
I was looking for. I will have to see how they age, but so far I am
nothing but impressed. Here is a link to a retailer:
http://www.energyfederation.org/consumer/default.php/cPath/25_44_168_197.
I am writing to see if they can get lower wattage GenIVs in stock
since these bulbs are a bit long for some fixtures.
Kevin
 
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