# bee venom extract device

Discussion in 'General Electronics Discussion' started by Fuzzy, Feb 22, 2015.

1. ### Fuzzy

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Nov 30, 2014
Hello i am looking for help in making a bee venom extractor. Searching on the net i found this info about the device:

"In accordance with the present invention, the controller is supplied with an input voltage of DC 12V, with an output voltage elevated to AC 12V to 40V at an output frequency from 30 to 400 Hz."

The device is pictured here :

I am asking for info on making one or paying someone to make me a prototype. I m gonna need 15-30 devices if it works out.

Im interested on the power supply circuit only

Last edited: Feb 22, 2015
2. ### duke37

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718
Jan 9, 2011
If the AC can be the same frequency as the mains supply, then a transformer run on the mains will do. Get one with multiple voltage outputs to suit your situation.

If you need a different frequency, then you will need to make a suitable oscillator which can run off 12V DC.

3. ### Fuzzy

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Nov 30, 2014
Source would be a battery since it will be used on the mountain. A 12 v car battery will be the source. I need it to have variable voltage and frequecy to test it at the hive with different settings. Getting a different frequency can be done with an oscilator but it will need to be stepped up in volts and transformed to ac too.

4. ### duke37

5,231
718
Jan 9, 2011
I am not able to get at my information at the moment but one gate of a CMOS 4093 can make an oscillator with a resistor from output to input and a capacitor from input to earth. Varying the resistor will vary the frequency.
There is a plethora of audio amplifiers which can run on 12V, using one of these to drive a small 1:5 transformer should give the voltage you want. To make the output voltage adjustable, put a 'volume control' between the 4093 and the amp.

How much power will the grid take?

5. ### KrisBlueNZSadly passed away in 2015

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Nov 28, 2011
I agree with duke37 about using an audio amplifier driving a transformer. You can get Class D amplifiers pretty cheaply on eBay and they're very efficient and compact. With a 12V DC supply you can get nearly the full output swing, i.e. about 8V RMS, or 16V RMS if you use a BTL (bridge-tied load) amplifier, which may be more compact and efficient than a single-ended amplifier because it doesn't need an output capacitor. A 1:3 transformer would bring 16V RMS up to 48V RMS.

For the signal source, I expect you want a sinewave. You could use an MP3 player or smartphone, with some sinewave signals stored on it (use Audacity to create these).

6. ### Fuzzy

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Nov 30, 2014
well thank you both for your help! Duke i don't really know what the output power will be but i dont expect something high . its just bees im not sure. the audacity part is really clever! electronics is a new exciting world to me anf i m happy this forum is here to help us newbies! i ll try your suggestions and ill ask if i cant get it work. one question out of curiosity. will a human sense that current with that specs? i mean when i touch the wires or its just to low for a human to feel it?

7. ### Fuzzy

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Nov 30, 2014
mr kriss if i got it right. every class d on full volume with input 12 volts will get an out of 8volts. so it depends on the total wattage needed for the machine to choose the right amp with the right output watts to be sufficient?

8. ### KrisBlueNZSadly passed away in 2015

8,393
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Nov 28, 2011
48V AC RMS at 30~400 Hz is definitely enough to feel. In some circumstances, such as if your hands are wet and you touch both sides with opposite hands, it can actually be fatal, especially if you have a heart condition, but even if you don't. Everything should be thoroughly insulated and kept out of reach.

Yes, that's right. A Class D amplifier running from 12V DC will generate about 8V RMS maximum into the transformer. A BTL Class D amp running from 12V is more compact and efficient, and will generate about 16V RMS maximum into the transformer. A transformer changes the voltage, but not the power (apart from wasting a bit due to its internal losses), so if you need, say, 20W at the output of the transformer, then you need an amplifier rated for a bit more than 20W - say 25W - to drive the transformer.

Do you have any reference information on this bee venom extraction process? I assume there's some kind of grid that the bees stand on, and you zap them, and they get angry and try to sting the grid, right? The characteristics of the applied voltage may need to be carefully controlled so you don't injure the bees. Also you may need to take ambient humidity into account because it will affect the bees' resistance and therefore the amount of power they absorb. In any case you should start at minimum "volume" and ramp it up slowly. I would like to see any research or information on this subject, to make sure we're on the right track.

9. ### KrisBlueNZSadly passed away in 2015

8,393
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Nov 28, 2011
I really hope this extraction process doesn't kill the bees. AFAIK once they sting, they die. I'm no tree hugger, but I think bees have enough to contend with, what with all the chemicals we dump into their environment. We need a lot more of them, not less. And what is the bee venom used for?

10. ### Fuzzy

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Nov 30, 2014
it is used as a product in pharmacy. my porpose is not to hatm the bees thats the variation in voltage. i ll start low and ramp up slow. the machine is a flat glass that on top there are lines of wire one ground one possitive and goes on. you place it in the entrance and you give them a low shock just to make them angry and start to sting on the glass. the process is at max 40 minutes per day per hive. no bees are killed as the sting dont stick on glass and current is low enough. then you take away ythe glass and scrape it with a razor and collect the dried out venom. i m a bee keeper and my porpose is to not harm them. i ll just make a testing prototype and then make a fixed circuit for more machines. in depth info is not easy to find on the net because companies that sell dont provide machine specs. i onve heard someone that used a ab train belt the ones that provide a pulse to your abs as a poweer source but i think it will be a bih shock for the bees

11. ### Fuzzy

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Nov 30, 2014
i can try a 555 circuit to generate a square wave of 30-400hz and feed it to a transformer and try a dc pulse instead of and ac that its suggested on the page i found online or its not possible to do this way?

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Nov 30, 2014
13. ### Sasa

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Aug 11, 2016
Hi fuzzy!
Did you make the device? I'm also in process of researching of this subject!

14. ### davennModerator

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Sep 5, 2009
this thread is 1.5 yrs old, he never came back