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Average Family use in kilowatts usage question

T

Tim Thomson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Help me out here..........looking for links as proof what the average
family of five would use for power in k watts per month. No hot tubs. We
have gas hot water, gas stove, no cars plugged in etc.....very typical
home 1000 ft up 1000 ft basement four bedrooms total four kids two
adults. My average bill went from me by myself 300 kwh per month for the
whole house to 2300 KWH per month when my girl friend and four teens
moved in...........and I am the prik for nagging about shutting off the
lights when no one is using them. Sorry for the vent but 2300 KWH per
month even after all the nagging man o man.......
We do have 21 amps @ 110v ac of floor heating on T stats. Her argument
is that that is what is sucking up the power. The floor heaters are
expected to raise the KWH by about 150m KWH per month ( they cycle on
and off) and my argument is that that should off-set the gas heat
bill...............the gas heat bill is another story.
 
M

m Ransley

Jan 1, 1970
0
For all you know the electric heaters might use 150 in 4 days,you have
no meter on them, plus all the extra lights and everything. Electric
heat for most is still alot more than Ng, for me 50% more easily.
 
D

Drums

Jan 1, 1970
0
I have not looked at the Kw usage but My bill runs about 130 per month for a
family of 7.
I pay 11.5 cents per KW. Kids are evil. ;o) My teen daughter turns the
thermostat up to 75 from 65 if I forget to lock it.
She also takes showers for 45 minutes unless I am and shut the water off on
her.
This could be easily solved if Child beating were still legal. Until then
good luck to you.
 
D

Drums

Jan 1, 1970
0
Forgot to add.
Most lights are CF type and we have LP hot water
dryer and furnace. Still have electric range that gets moderate usage.

Electric Heat is evil. Get rid of it if you can and get a programmable
thermostat.
This will save at least 150.00 per year. LP or gas cost about half to run
compared to electric.
Get Compact fluorescent lights. That cut my bill by 25 per month alone.
 
Tim Thomson said:
Help me out here..........looking for links as proof what the average
family of five would use for power in k watts per month.

About 10,000 kilowatt-HOURS per year of electrical energy vs power.
We do have 21 amps @ 110v ac of floor heating on T stats. Her argument
is that that is what is sucking up the power.

Good argument. I'm surprised it's 110 vs 240 V.
The floor heaters are expected to raise the KWH by about 150m KWH per month

.... 150 milli-kilowatt hours? :)

Nick
 
W

William P.N. Smith

Jan 1, 1970
0
Tim Thomson said:
We do have 21 amps @ 110v ac of floor heating on T stats.

There's your problem right there. Pick your battles and go after the
big stuff first. Anything generating heat with electricity is a
biggie.

You can read your electric meter daily at (say) noontime every day to
get an idea of what your daily consumption looks like, then turn off
the floor heaters for a day or two and see how things change.

You can save a lot by turning the heat down as well, crank it down one
degree per week till you get to maybe 66 (that's mostly where we're
at) and see if you cant get used to it. Wear a sweater.
 
A

Alan Combellack

Jan 1, 1970
0
My house is an old 1750 f^2 badly insulated log farm house located near
Ottawa in Canada. Everything in the house is electrically powered. There
are three people living here. Winters are cold. My average electricity
usage, back in 2000, was 2677 kWh/month all year. It was nearly 4000 in
winter and about 1600 in summer. I think my figures are ridiculous and
really must improve the insulation a lot. About 20 years ago I added a 448
f^2 extension which was built to the then standards and this made only a
very small increase to the annual bill so my problem is obviously with the
old house. We do religiously turn off lights and turn down the heat when we
can but it is still terrible.
Alan C
 
T

Tim Thomson

Jan 1, 1970
0
SolarFlare said:
There may be a gotcha' here too.

If you meter reader is a contractor or lazy he/she may
avoid reading your house sometimes and estimate the
reading. This happens with dogs in fenced yards or out
of the way properties that require extra walking to get
there. The reading may have been read in error also
because of getting a reading close to a 9 digit on a
previous dial. A mechanical reading register is
required for this error though.

Anyway, to make a long story shirt. A reading or
several may have been screwed up or faked and then when
the real reading comes along you have a big dollar to
make up to catch up to your meter.

A bad reading may have made the meter reading high by
1000 also. Check your meter dials to see if it is a 5
dial or a 4 dial meter. 4 Dial meters are a problem
because large consumptions have to be guessed how many
times they turned over.

Check the reading on your meter against your bill. A
bad reading should be obvious. Figure 1000 too high
possibly.

300 kwh per month sounds too low. Perhaps you have been
estimated low for a few months and now it's payback
time. Billing history can tell much if you have lived
there for a few years.

OTOH: slap your kids up the side of the head for me! I
have been there and the buggers hide the facts when dad
is pissed. Check for grow lights in the hidden parts of
the basement.

Good luck.

Readings have allready been verified.
Two years at 300 KWH per month.
The high reading is not false I predicted it when I saw the
waste......the kids have been using plug in heaters and keeping the
basement at 22-25 Celcius. I complained about it long before we got this
bill...the main floor t stat is allways at 21-22 c..its killing me. ( I
like 19.5 C) We have a brand new apartment size fridge. It took some
work but I was able to maintain 300 KWH by myself no problem.
One question what is a typical family of five supposed to use I will add
200 KWH per winter months for the floor zone heaters. BTW the next bill
comming is only 1950 KWH for DEC. I caught the meter reader and compared
his to mine and yup another 1950 KWH
 
Y

You

Jan 1, 1970
0
Tim Thomson said:
Readings have allready been verified.
Two years at 300 KWH per month.
The high reading is not false I predicted it when I saw the
waste......the kids have been using plug in heaters and keeping the
basement at 22-25 Celcius. I complained about it long before we got this
bill...the main floor t stat is allways at 21-22 c..its killing me. ( I
like 19.5 C) We have a brand new apartment size fridge. It took some
work but I was able to maintain 300 KWH by myself no problem.
One question what is a typical family of five supposed to use I will add
200 KWH per winter months for the floor zone heaters. BTW the next bill
comming is only 1950 KWH for DEC. I caught the meter reader and compared
his to mine and yup another 1950 KWH

time for a new girlfriend dude........
 
D

Derek Broughton

Jan 1, 1970
0
SolarFlare said:
There may be a gotcha' here too.

If you meter reader is a contractor or lazy he/she may
avoid reading your house sometimes and estimate the
reading.

That requires _anything_ on the part of the meter reader? My experience in
rural areas in your neck of the woods was that _at least_ every second
reading was estimated. I thought it was Ontario Hydro's (or its successor)
official policy.
 
T

Tim Thomson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Drums said:
Forgot to add.
Most lights are CF type and we have LP hot water
dryer and furnace. Still have electric range that gets moderate usage.

Electric Heat is evil. Get rid of it if you can and get a programmable
thermostat.
This will save at least 150.00 per year. LP or gas cost about half to run
compared to electric.
Get Compact fluorescent lights. That cut my bill by 25 per month alone.

Not getting rid of the floor heaters (in tile) It was just installed over the
last two years and was well planned. The idea is to turn on the front door floor
heat just when needed to dry off cold wet boots hardly ever on 3 amps on a stat.
The main bath takes about twenty mins to warm up to a more than warm feeling 3
amps. The basement bath is on all the time at a low setting just set as to take
away the cold feel of the tile on concrete....not much I can do about that
one...takes forever to warm it up at 5 amps...t stat at second lowest out of 12.
The kitchen is the nicest turn it on by timer/tstat 20 mins before making coffee
in the morning......it can get too hot in 20 mins so I throttle this one. 10.2
amps total. Still should work out cheaper (in theory) to zone heat with elec
rather than cranking the furnace for the whole house.
Any ways I went out today and bought 24 compact cf lights. Man they have come
down in price and give off a much nicer lite than they used to. Any one good at
math here? How many whats a month would 360 wats of cf's used per month at 3
hours a day compared to 1440 incadescent lights at 3 hours a day. Yup thats what
I replaced as of 20 mins ago. I paid 3.33 per bulb plus tax btw.
I also found out the oldest was using a 1500 watt elec shop heater behind closed
doors in his bedroom for the last 2 months. The stat was broken on it so it was
on all the time....its out the door.......gonna make it confusing when we get
the next bill. Will it be the lights or the heater that saved....I am hoping to
get it down to 1000 KWH per month
Just a note I bought Phillips and Sylvania The Phillips claim more light than a
60 watt @15 watts with a 10000 hour life. The Sylvania Claim a true 60 watts
bulb comparison @ 12 watts and 8000 life span.
The light off the phillips is much more natural and wins hands down even at 2
watts per bulb more.
 
T

Tim Thomson

Jan 1, 1970
0
CJT said:
I don't know what "average" is, and have no links for you, but I have
recently compiled our bills for the past 25 years, and the annual total
ranged from about 12500 to about 26000 KWH. Much of the annual load in
our case is air conditioning in Austin, Texas (CDDs here range from
about 2500-3500), and the highest years were those in which, unbeknownst
to me at the time, our compressor was beginning to fail and our ductwork
was leaking like crazy. Our highest month ever (3825 KWH) was the month
the compressor finally gave out.

For most of the time described we were a family of four, with gas stove,
heat, and hot water.

We have several computers running 24X7, and currently use about 25-30
KWH per day in the recent cooler weather (family of three).

FWIW, I think your girlfriend is right -- it's probably the heaters.
150 KWH/month is only 5 KWH/day, which is about what one typical 200
watt computer uses if left on full time -- so it would only be about
six minutes per hour for your heaters. Another thing you might think
about is the fan motor on your furnace -- they can use a surprising
amount of energy, especially if the bearings are worn. And computers
can use a lot of power, too, as can TVs.

If it were me, I'd hook an electric clock initially set to midnight
to each heater downstream of its thermostat and see how much past
midnight they read after 24 hours. That would settle it.

Hope that helps.

Its not the heaters.... the heaters were on long before she moved in......I
was just ranting...... it is the 5 tv's the three computors and the plug in
heaters trust me and all the dam lights the youngest 11 sleeps with a tv on
the fish tank light and a lamp plus the ceiling light....(shakes my head
christ) There dad was killed in a car wreck two months ago so I will let it go
for awhile....then its lights out here.
 
T

Tim Thomson

Jan 1, 1970
0
CJT said:
I don't know what "average" is, and have no links for you, but I have
recently compiled our bills for the past 25 years, and the annual total
ranged from about 12500 to about 26000 KWH. Much of the annual load in
our case is air conditioning in Austin, Texas (CDDs here range from
about 2500-3500), and the highest years were those in which, unbeknownst
to me at the time, our compressor was beginning to fail and our ductwork
was leaking like crazy. Our highest month ever (3825 KWH) was the month
the compressor finally gave out.

For most of the time described we were a family of four, with gas stove,
heat, and hot water.

We have several computers running 24X7, and currently use about 25-30
KWH per day in the recent cooler weather (family of three).

FWIW, I think your girlfriend is right -- it's probably the heaters.
150 KWH/month is only 5 KWH/day, which is about what one typical 200
watt computer uses if left on full time -- so it would only be about
six minutes per hour for your heaters. Another thing you might think
about is the fan motor on your furnace -- they can use a surprising
amount of energy, especially if the bearings are worn. And computers
can use a lot of power, too, as can TVs.

If it were me, I'd hook an electric clock initially set to midnight
to each heater downstream of its thermostat and see how much past
midnight they read after 24 hours. That would settle it.

Hope that helps.

Forgot to mention the furnace belt drive motor was replaced with a multi
speed direct drive blower two years ago. way more cfm and less power and more
heat exchange.
The gas bills dropped about 100.00 per month alone when I did that.
I also put a programable stat in ...cant use the timer with 6 people comming
and going at diff times so its in manual all the time.
 
T

Tim Thomson

Jan 1, 1970
0
William P.N. Smith said:
There's your problem right there. Pick your battles and go after the
big stuff first. Anything generating heat with electricity is a
biggie.

You can read your electric meter daily at (say) noontime every day to
get an idea of what your daily consumption looks like, then turn off
the floor heaters for a day or two and see how things change.

You can save a lot by turning the heat down as well, crank it down one
degree per week till you get to maybe 66 (that's mostly where we're
at) and see if you cant get used to it. Wear a sweater.

For the last time its not the floor heat. They are on at minimum.....if
anything less now with all the waste heat from the furnace, lights, tv's
and computers on all the time.
The floor heat was on and tested long before they moved in.......we are
sharing the lights I used to use and the tv I used to use the fridge I
used to use the furnace i used to use by myself..............I was kinda
thinking that each person should only add another 100-150 KWH per month so
some where around 1200-1300 per month would be more like it..........LOL
she picked the fight....She claims I got no say because she paid the power
bill ha ha so I did what they do and went around the house and turned on
all the lights after the smart ass coment "its only one light"
I would love to relight the wood stove I have but its allready to dam hot
in here from the wasted heat
 
D

daestrom

Jan 1, 1970
0
Tim Thomson said:
Help me out here..........looking for links as proof what the average
family of five would use for power in k watts per month. No hot tubs. We
have gas hot water, gas stove, no cars plugged in etc.....very typical
home 1000 ft up 1000 ft basement four bedrooms total four kids two
adults. My average bill went from me by myself 300 kwh per month for the
whole house to 2300 KWH per month when my girl friend and four teens
moved in...........and I am the prik for nagging about shutting off the
lights when no one is using them. Sorry for the vent but 2300 KWH per
month even after all the nagging man o man.......
We do have 21 amps @ 110v ac of floor heating on T stats. Her argument
is that that is what is sucking up the power. The floor heaters are
expected to raise the KWH by about 150m KWH per month ( they cycle on
and off) and my argument is that that should off-set the gas heat
bill...............the gas heat bill is another story.

Well, can't say about 'average', but I have a family of five and 2600 ft^2
house. We too have gas hot-water and gas heat, so our situations are pretty
similar.

First of all, 21 amps @110 for floor heating is a bad idea. If it were on
continuously, that would be 1663 kwh/month right there. If it is *really*
240V (if it's hard-wired in, it might be really 240V), then that would be
1663 kwh/month if it cycles 50% on/off. Heating with electric can be a lot
more expensive than with gas, even with this year's gas prices. Only time
it can win is if you spot heat a tiny place like under your desk and let the
rest of the room cool off. Better to just run the gas heater in most
situations. Even at $1.75/therm for NG, burning in a 85% efficient furnace,
that still works out to an equivalent of $0.07/kwh. Cheaper than your
electric rate I'd bet.

Is this electric usage related to Christmas decorations? You'd be surprised
how many folks put in a call to the electric company at the end of
December/beginning of Janurary complaining about their bill, and they have
1500 watts of outside electric lights on for 16 hours a day. This can add
another 400-600 kwh to a bill for the holidays.

But that all been said, my household runs about 600 kwh/month. Yes, I have
to nag a bit about some of the lights. But I made a deal with the Mrs. If
she lets me put in CF lights in a lot of the fixtures, I won't nag about
leaving the lights on :). She can put up with what she calls 'crappy
colored lights', or put up with my 'nagging'. Her choice.

Check the kids TV's/computers/video games. Are they left on all the time?

If the meter reader messed up, the utilities billing software would have
flagged it and given you an estimated bill. And estimated bills are based
on past usage, so that wouldn't make it jump 2000 kwh in a month. And even
so, the estimate would be self-correcting next month.

Do you know how to read your meter? If not, your utility probably has a web
page to show you how. Compare the meter reading now with your last bill and
see if it is larger/smaller than the reading on the bill. If it's off by a
huge amount, maybe the meter reader did make a mistake.

Once you know how to read your meter, check it every couple of days, say
when you get off work.

What else came with the 'instant family'? Besides more lighting, computers?
TV? hair dryers? Toaster oven?

daestrom
 
D

daestrom

Jan 1, 1970
0
Tim Thomson said:
Drums wrote:
Not getting rid of the floor heaters (in tile) It was just installed over
the
last two years and was well planned. The idea is to turn on the front door
floor
heat just when needed to dry off cold wet boots hardly ever on 3 amps on a
stat.
The main bath takes about twenty mins to warm up to a more than warm
feeling 3
amps. The basement bath is on all the time at a low setting just set as to
take
away the cold feel of the tile on concrete....not much I can do about that
one...takes forever to warm it up at 5 amps...t stat at second lowest out
of 12.
The kitchen is the nicest turn it on by timer/tstat 20 mins before making
coffee
in the morning......it can get too hot in 20 mins so I throttle this one.
10.2
amps total. Still should work out cheaper (in theory) to zone heat with
elec
rather than cranking the furnace for the whole house.
Any ways I went out today and bought 24 compact cf lights. Man they have
come
down in price and give off a much nicer lite than they used to. Any one
good at
math here? How many whats a month would 360 wats of cf's used per month at
3
hours a day compared to 1440 incadescent lights at 3 hours a day. Yup
thats what
I replaced as of 20 mins ago. I paid 3.33 per bulb plus tax btw.

Well for thirty days, that works out to a savings of (1440-360)*3*30/1000 =
97.2 kwh (times $0.15/kwh means about $14.58/month). If the bulbs last for
5000 hours of operation, they could save (1440-360)*5000/1000 = 5400 kwh, or
$810 at $0.15/kwh.
I also found out the oldest was using a 1500 watt elec shop heater behind
closed
doors in his bedroom for the last 2 months. The stat was broken on it so
it was
on all the time....its out the door.......gonna make it confusing when we
get
the next bill.

Ouch!!! 1500 watts *24*30/1000 = 1080 kwh/month. That's a big bite right
there. Of course, now the oldest isn't as warm. Hope he wasn't opening a
window at night to cool off too!!! (been known to happen in apts,
thermostat broke, so open window to regulate temperature, then complain to
landlord about the heating bill).
Will it be the lights or the heater that saved....I am hoping to
get it down to 1000 KWH per month

Well that one 'shop heater' was certainly hurting you. But you have to
replace that heat with something. Can you direct gas-fired furnace heat
into the basement area? Price of space heating with gas is usually much
better than space heating with electric.

Obviously your new family is not as used to a 'frugal' energy life-style as
you are. It will take some time for you/them to adjust. Considering their
recent tragedy, it will take some time/patience. Smaller wattage CF's for
the youngest's 'nite lights' can help. Finding ways to reduce the
number/usage of plug-in space heaters is another area to focus on.

As far as computers go, if you can't get them to turn them off when not in
use, maybe compromise and have the power-saver mode kick-in after 15 minutes
or something. Not just a screen-saver, the low-power settings where the
monitor kind of 'clicks' because the video signal is cancelled. Flying
logos or toaster screen savers don't save energy, but the power-save mode
does.

daestrom
 
W

William P.N. Smith

Jan 1, 1970
0
Tim Thomson said:
she picked the fight....She claims I got no say because she paid the power
bill ha ha so I did what they do and went around the house and turned on
all the lights after the smart ass coment "its only one light"

Ah, now I see the problem. Never mind, there's nothing we can do with
your power consumption. As the auto mechanics say, "It's the nut
behind the wheel".
 
S

Steve Spence

Jan 1, 1970
0
Tim said:
Help me out here..........looking for links as proof what the average
family of five would use for power in k watts per month. No hot tubs. We
have gas hot water, gas stove, no cars plugged in etc.....very typical
home 1000 ft up 1000 ft basement four bedrooms total four kids two
adults. My average bill went from me by myself 300 kwh per month for the
whole house to 2300 KWH per month when my girl friend and four teens
moved in...........and I am the prik for nagging about shutting off the
lights when no one is using them. Sorry for the vent but 2300 KWH per
month even after all the nagging man o man.......
We do have 21 amps @ 110v ac of floor heating on T stats. Her argument
is that that is what is sucking up the power. The floor heaters are
expected to raise the KWH by about 150m KWH per month ( they cycle on
and off) and my argument is that that should off-set the gas heat
bill...............the gas heat bill is another story.

Our family of five was consuming 1000 kWh / month till we went off grid,
now it's less than 200 kWh / month.
 
T

Tim Thomson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ouch!!! 1500 watts *24*30/1000 = 1080 kwh/month. That's a big bite right
there. Of course, now the oldest isn't as warm. Hope he wasn't opening a
window at night to cool off too!!!

I dont think the broken window was open.
But mom was leaving a outside light on for when he will come home at five in the
morning.
I told her today screw him....the street light is enough light to lite up the
door nob for him........talk about spoiled....if I did that when I was 19 and if
I was still living at home my parents would have changed the locks never mind
leave a light on for me!
 
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